Good. I'll take Palestinian State in next year's NCAA bracket.

strangeguitar: Good. I'll take Palestinian State in next year's NCAA bracket.

My bracket has them losing to Gonzaga in the quarterfinals.

Why does Cheney hate Jews

Summon Tatsuma!

psychometrix: Why does Cheney hate Jews

They're competing with him for world domination, I suspect.

But, but I thought there was no such thing as Palestinians!

As long as we're handing out countries, how about we give the Kurds their own place. Should be easier since they mostly live in northern Iraq.

Israel has not officially acknowledged taking part in the talks, and both sides say they reserve the right to attack the other at any time.

Too much hatred by members on both sides. As long as Israel exists as a nation, war will continue there.

Certain sections of california would make a great location

ODDwhun: As long as we're handing out countries, how about we give the Kurds their own place. Should be easier since they mostly live in northern Iraq.

Turkey would like a word with you . . .

And somehow, I think a Palestinian nation would end up fighting a real, old-school state-on-state war with Israel.

psychometrix: Why does Cheney hate Jews

Cheney is a well-known anti-Semitic bigot. Everyone knows that.

Lordmontu
But Cheney's lies on the other hand...

Cheney: 2 DUIs, 4 Vietnam deferments.

Heckuva job, Dickie.

Good. They're never going to live together in peace as long as religion and government are permitted to openly mix there. Really, the occupied zones should really just be annexed by Jordan and Egypt. That would be the easiest move by all involved.

bicentennialman: And somehow, I think a Palestinian nation would end up fighting a real, old-school state-on-state war with Israel.

Which would still be a helluva lot better than what we have now.

psychometrix: Why does Cheney hate Jews

It's nothing personal. He hates everyone.

Shaggy_C

They aren't that stupid. They can't even take care of their own people, why should they try and take on some more?

A Palestinian state is a great idea. A Palestinian democracy is a terrible idea that is doomed to failure. There isn't a single legitimate democracy between Algeria and India, other than Israel. Trying to set one up in somewhere as radicalized as the Occupied Territories is foolhardy at best.

As long as the dream of the Caliphate is still in the minds of the Arab world, there will never be peace in the Middle East.

ratman999: As long as the dream of the Caliphate is still in the minds of the Arab world, there will never be peace in the Middle East.

Did you get to see this the other day? Blaming the Caliphate alone is a little disingenius.

Cheney is the same guy who announced the Bush administration had no plans for the Middle East. About a year and a half before the terror attacks in New York and Washington.

At least Bush/Cheney were smart enough to remove our troops from Saudia Arabia after 9-11. The presence of whom was the cause of the 9-11 attacks.

Shaggy_C: ratman999: As long as the dream of the Caliphate is still in the minds of the Arab world, there will never be peace in the Middle East.

Did you get to see this the other day? Blaming the Caliphate alone is a little disingenius.

By "Caliphate", I meant the Quranic principle of a kingdom led by the successors of Muhammed ruling over Islamic lands under Quranic law. A standard Muslim belief is in the "second coming" of the Caliphate, something that radical Islamic groups have used to justify their usual nonsensical activities.

wowzer97pooh: Cheney is the same guy who announced the Bush administration had no plans for the Middle East. About a year and a half before the terror attacks in New York and Washington.

At least Bush/Cheney were smart enough to remove our troops from Saudia Arabia after 9-11. The presence of whom was the cause of the 9-11 attacks.

They didn't move them out becuase of that. They just needed to make some room for all their oil money.

Cheney says Palestinian state long overdue, will shoot the face of anyone who disagrees won't put any pressure on Israel to try and make it happen

I don't see them ever reaching a solution on this crap, fark both sides as far as I'm concerned.

Falcc: wowzer97pooh: Cheney is the same guy who announced the Bush administration had no plans for the Middle East. About a year and a half before the terror attacks in New York and Washington.

At least Bush/Cheney were smart enough to remove our troops from Saudia Arabia after 9-11. The presence of whom was the cause of the 9-11 attacks.

They didn't move them out becuase of that. They just needed to make some room for all their oil money.

If that was the case, we should have invaded Switzerland.

Everyone knows that a two-state solution is the only feasible path to peace, but as long as there are people on each side (a) bombing innocent people in restaurants or on buses or (b) performing airstrikes, shooting people with reckless disregard and building settlements in disputed territory nothing is going to change.

Everyone knows that a two-state solution is the only feasible path to peace, but as long as there are people on each side (a) bombing innocent people in restaurants or on buses or (b) performing airstrikes, shooting people with reckless disregard and building settlements in disputed territory nothing is going to change.

So? I hope it DOESN'T change. I want it to get better for a little while, and then get really shiatty again. Like a big circle of suck, with varying degrees of suckitude. It makes awesome tv, and nothing warms my heart more than seeing 5 year olds dressed up with fake ak47's and suicide belts, or writing special messages to their parents enemies on smart bombs.

More like a terrorist state.

thisispete: Everyone knows that a two-state solution is the only feasible path to peace, but as long as there are people on each side (a) bombing innocent people in restaurants or on buses or (b) performing airstrikes, shooting people with reckless disregard and building settlements in disputed territory nothing is going to change.

You forgot the part about the United States bankrolling, sustaining, and backing the Israeli militarily and economically, to the tune of nearly $3 billion yearly in direct aid, and another $2 billion in indirect aid. Despite the illegality (USC Title 22, Chapter 72, subchapter 1) of the US supporting a nation that develops nuclear weapons- like Israel's open secret. You want change? Stop funding Israel.

As Greg Palast has noted, if the price of oil dropped every time there was unrest and war in the Middle East, there would be peace within a few months.

Right. We could support a civilized, educated and technologically advanced society with clean running water and plumbing, or an unciviliazed, uneducated barbarian wasteland where women are raped and killed for riding those "metal horses" and people blindly throw explosives at others just to hear it go "boom". Where you live indicates which kind of society you prefer. I'll take Israel over Palestine any day.

xkillyourfacex: Right. We could support a civilized, educated and technologically advanced society with clean running water and plumbing, or an unciviliazed, uneducated barbarian wasteland where women are raped and killed for riding those "metal horses" and people blindly throw explosives at others just to hear it go "boom". Where you live indicates which kind of society you prefer. I'll take Israel over Palestine any day.

Wow, no mention of razing houses with tanks or guided missles killing civilians? Really? Both sides are guilty of atrocities. One side is just state sanctioned and they have a lot more resources.

all this talk of caliphates and annex it to egypt and jordan.....wot a load of farkin twoddle. u really are dumber than Dummy McDumbtwat who marries Harriet Halfwit and had the twins, Planky and Festus McDumbTwat-Halfwit. How you mouth-breathers remember to farkin breathe is beyond me....

its clearly too difficult a concept to grasp but a Palestinian state is about justice and self determination.

/here endeth the lesson

Wow, no mention of razing houses with tanks or guided missles killing civilians? Really? Both sides are guilty of atrocities. One side is just state sanctioned and they have a lot more resources.

Fail fail fail. Israel has called off many operations because they felt the estimate of UNINTENDED civilian casualties was too high. This includes instances where the israelis will give a palestinian target a chance to surrender, only to be confronted by more palestinians offering themselves as human shields for the intended target. That's right, palestinian civilians are encouraged to become human shields for terrorists.

The difference is, when an israeli strike results in the death of a bystander, it's UNINTENTIONAL and they often apologize for it. When an palestinian terrorist attack results in deaths of civilians, it's INTENTIONAL and they celebrate with candy and gunfire (yes, seriously).

Equating a missle strike which inadvertantly kills civilians with an intentional terrorist attack which specifically targets civilians is stupid and ignorant and completely ignores the factor of INTENT, which is paramount in determining the legitimacy of an action.

Different story for razing houses of suicide bombers. No excuse for that.

Slamguy: Wow, no mention of razing houses with tanks or guided missles killing civilians? Really? Both sides are guilty of atrocities. One side is just state sanctioned and they have a lot more resources.

Fail fail fail. Israel has called off many operations because they felt the estimate of UNINTENDED civilian casualties was too high. This includes instances where the israelis will give a palestinian target a chance to surrender, only to be confronted by more palestinians offering themselves as human shields for the intended target. That's right, palestinian civilians are encouraged to become human shields for terrorists.

The difference is, when an israeli strike results in the death of a bystander, it's UNINTENTIONAL and they often apologize for it. When an palestinian terrorist attack results in deaths of civilians, it's INTENTIONAL and they celebrate with candy and gunfire (yes, seriously).

Equating a missle strike which inadvertantly kills civilians with an intentional terrorist attack which specifically targets civilians is stupid and ignorant and completely ignores the factor of INTENT, which is paramount in determining the legitimacy of an action.

Different story for razing houses of suicide bombers. No excuse for that.

Rachel Corrie.

cameroncrazy1984: But, but I thought there was no such thing as Palestinians!

You are confusing 'palestinians' with the "palestinian nationality", invented after 67'.
There is a palestinian state. It's called Jordan.

Sabyen91: Rachel Corrie.

A moron who died because of her own stupidity while defending terrorist smuggling tunnels.

cameroncrazy1984
But, but I thought there was no such thing as Palestinians!

This.

TappingTheVein
There is a palestinian state. It's called Jordan.

Riiight... except that the Jordanians don't identify as Palestinian and the Palestinians don't identify as Jordanian. And the Palestinian whose family lived in Nablus or east Jerusalem for centuries? They just don't exist?

A moron who died because of her own stupidity while defending terrorist smuggling tunnels.

A more or less innocent American girl who died because of the malice of others while defending someone's house that was about to be bulldozed. Not that I don't have my own bias, but what you said was closer to "lie" than mere "spin".

mrexcess: Riiight... except that the Jordanians don't identify as Palestinian

Wrong: about 70% of Jordanians identify themselves as palestinians.

and the Palestinians don't identify as Jordanian

Stupidity #1: read about the history of Jordan (or what was Trans-Jordan). There is no difference between the arabs there and the arabs who now call themselves palestinians.

And the Palestinian whose family lived in Nablus or east Jerusalem for centuries? They just don't exist?

Stupidity #2: Their existence has nothing to do with this. Nablus' last nation used to be Jordan.

A more or less innocent American girl who died because of the malice of others while defending someone's house that was about to be bulldozed.

A stupid moron stood in front of a moving giant bulldozer. Apparently this can be hazardous to your health. Maybe she shouldn't act as a human shield for bomb smuggling tunnels and concentrate on what she apparently did better: teaching palestinian children on the proper technique of burning american and israeli flags.

but what you said was closer to "lie" than mere "spin"

Bullshiat. Then prove me wrong.

burndtdan

I chuckled.

Devil Slide Wolf: all this talk of caliphates and annex it to egypt and jordan.....wot a load of farkin twoddle. u really are dumber than Dummy McDumbtwat who marries Harriet Halfwit and had the twins, Planky and Festus McDumbTwat-Halfwit. How you mouth-breathers remember to farkin breathe is beyond me....

its clearly too difficult a concept to grasp but a Palestinian state is about justice and self determination.

/here endeth the lesson

'Palestinian', 'justice' and 'self determination' all in one sentence? Wow. Try 'Sharia' and 'Theocracy'.

Rachel Corrie.

An American who hated her own country with a passion (see those pictures of her screaming like an ape and burning her own flag?) She was not an innocent little peace activist as you morons claims.

She an other activists were putting themselves in front of israeli bulldozers, causing them to stop or change their course. You can't blame the israelis for an accidental death caused by the "victim's" own recklessness and irresponsible behavior.

C'mon, quit being such douchebags.

thats easy to say. The problem is the Palestinians don't seem to want any state, they want a very specific state.

TappingTheVein
about 70% of Jordanians identify themselves as palestinians.

Got a cite for that?

There is no difference between the arabs there and the arabs who now call themselves palestinians.

That's like saying there's no difference between the Europeans in England and the Europeans in Boston.

Nablus' last nation used to be Jordan.

And the Palestinian resident of Jerusalem...?

A stupid moron stood in front of a moving giant bulldozer. Apparently this can be hazardous to your health.

When driven by people who would rather commit murder than turn off the bulldozer, yes.

Maybe she shouldn't act as a human shield for bomb smuggling tunnels

She wasn't trying to shield "bomb smuggling tunnels". She was standing in front of someone's HOUSE.

Bullshiat. Then prove me wrong.

You don't care about the facts... there's no proving someone like you wrong, at least not in a way that you personally will ever accept. Like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

frankencj
'Palestinian', 'justice' and 'self determination' all in one sentence? Wow. Try 'Sharia' and 'Theocracy'.

It amazes me that there are so many clueless people out there. The Palestinian Authority has never pushed Sharia, and they aren't a theocracy. There are a lot of Palestinian Arab Christians, and Israel doesn't treat them any better than the Muslims.

Slamguy
An American who hated her own country with a passion

Doesn't it bother you a bit that you're assassinating the character of a murdered teenage girl? Jeez.

Go back and read her letters home. Go talk to the people who knew her, who were active in the same political organizations that she took such pride in. That is, if you really care what Rachel Corrie thought. More likely, I suspect, you're just trying to sling mud and couldn't give two farks what Ms. Corrie thought about anything.

She an other activists were putting themselves in front of israeli bulldozers, causing them to stop or change their course. You can't blame the israelis for an accidental death caused by the "victim's" own recklessness and irresponsible behavior.

Uhhh, pardon me? You think bulldozer operators ought to be able to roll right over protesters? Because if someone did that here in the States, they'd be charged with manslaughter, even if it was a "dirty America-hating hippie" who got killed.

mrexcess: Got a cite for that?

Why not just apologize for making another stupid mistake ? you were wrong.
Buy and read this book or just google for it. About 60 to 70 percent of jordanians see themselves as palestinians.

That's like saying there's no difference between the Europeans in England and the Europeans in Boston.

Another stupid mistake. No it isn't.. you obviously don't have a clue about the history of Trans-Jordan and the population in the region in general. Europeans in England and in Boston do not belong to the same Hamula (arab tribe of sorts) not to mention that 'Europeans' does not equal 'arabs'. They don't share the same language, tradition, religion, family ties, culture etc etc..

And the Palestinian resident of Jerusalem...?

Stupid mistake #4: East Jerusalem was part of Jordan as well. Stop humiliating yourself and learn the history of the region.

When driven by people who would rather commit murder than turn off the bulldozer, yes.

Total bullshiat. You morons make it sound like Israel is bulldozering people left and right. How many were there before that incident ? how many after ? when you stand in front of a moving giant bulldozer there is a big chance that you'll get run over and he won't see you. This is stupidity incarnated.

She wasn't trying to shield "bomb smuggling tunnels". She was standing in front of someone's HOUSE.

Jesus Christ what a farking idiot... The tunnels are built under the house.. this is the whole point, to hide it and the exit. Just let it go man, i think you humiliated yourself enough. This is a new record actually.

You don't care about the facts... there's no proving someone like you wrong, at least not in a way that you personally will ever accept. Like the saying goes, you can lead a horse to water...

Ah, the irony. Go educate yourself and stop humiliating yourself at a public message board. I care very much about the facts and so far you showed all of us one simple fact: you have no farking clue.

xkillyourfacex: Right. We could support a civilized, educated and technologically advanced society with clean running water and plumbing, or an unciviliazed, uneducated barbarian wasteland where women are raped and killed for riding those "metal horses" and people blindly throw explosives at others just to hear it go "boom". Where you live indicates which kind of society you prefer. I'll take Israel over Palestine any day.

It's not an either / or scenario. Israel does not have the society they have through innate virtue any more than Palestine has their society through lack thereof, which is how you are describing it. Where you live may also simply be where you happen to have been born.

Rather, I prefer that we not fund the nation that uses the resources we provide to not only defend their claims to land annexed through war, but to destroy Palestinians and Palestinian infrastructure and support illegal colonies / occupying settlements. Israel not backed by the US can determine its own course in the part of the world it lives in.

We don't have to underwrite the Palestinians either, but we could try living with whomever the Palestinians choose in those democratic elections we were all gung-ho about - that is, before Hamas won.

SlamguyFail fail fail. Israel has called off many operations because they felt the estimate of UNINTENDED civilian casualties was too high. This includes instances where the israelis will give a palestinian target a chance to surrender, only to be confronted by more palestinians offering themselves as human shields for the intended target. That's right, palestinian civilians are encouraged to become human shields for terrorists.

Year..................Deaths........................ Injuries
..........Palestinians......Israelis......Palestinians......Israelis
2005.....216 (52).........48 (6).........1260 (129).....484 (4)
2006.....678 (127).......25 (2).........3194 (470).....377 (7)
2007.....396 (43).........13 (0).........1843 (265).....322 (3)
Total.....1290 (222).....86 (8).........6297 (864)....1183 (14)

figures in parentheses are deaths of individuals under 18.

The difference is, when an israeli strike results in the death of a bystander, it's UNINTENTIONAL and they often apologize for it. When an palestinian terrorist attack results in deaths of civilians, it's INTENTIONAL and they celebrate with candy and gunfire (yes, seriously).

Equating a missle strike which inadvertantly kills civilians with an intentional terrorist attack which specifically targets civilians is stupid and ignorant and completely ignores the factor of INTENT, which is paramount in determining the legitimacy of an action.

Let me know when Israel apologizes for firing a US-made hellfire anti-tank missile from a US-made Apache helicopter into the back of a Lebanese ambulance driving out of the Lebanese village of Mansouri, April 13 1996, killing two women and four children. That wasn't unintentional- they watched the ambulance for five minutes before targeting it. Or when they allowed the Sabra and Chatila massacre by Israel's Phalangist allies, knowing that they were massacring refugees, monitoring the slaughter as it occured. Or the 29 dead from Goldstein's attack on the mosque in Hebron, or the 25 additional Palestinians the Israeli troops killed when the Palestinians tried to break through the military cordon around the mosque, February 25 1994.

Palestinians are responsible for many reprehensible deaths, there is no question. But state-sponsored terrorism is not a lesser crime than terrorism, and the actual death toll of Palestinians to Israelis does not suggest a policy of restraint on the part of Israel.

Gyrfalcon: psychometrix: Why does Cheney hate Jews

It's nothing personal. He hates everyone.

Albert Jay Nock?

TappingTheVein
Why not just apologize for making another stupid mistake ?

Because I don't think I made one, for starters. "Google it" is not a citation for what you claimed, nor for that matter is telling me the name of a traveler's guide to Jordan. How were these numbers derived? Do they include the refugee population, official and unofficial?

Europeans in England and in Boston do not belong to the same Hamula (arab tribe of sorts)

At what point in history? If we go back to the nation's founding when such a comparison would be apropos, there were. In the day's parlance they were called Anglo-Saxon.

They don't share the same language, tradition, religion, family ties, culture etc etc..

Again, going back to a few decades after this nation's founding, they did. But yet a European from Boston was very different indeed than a European from London!

East Jerusalem was part of Jordan as well. Stop humiliating yourself and learn the history of the region.

No, this is what confuses me about your conclusions with regard to Jerusalem... somehow, Israel has managed to take the land, but not the people living on it. You'd make the house Israel but it's occupants Jordanian. Right?

You morons make it sound like Israel is bulldozering people left and right.

I don't answer to "you morons", nor do I make that argument. I do make the argument that this is what one Israeli bulldozer driver did in the case of Ms. Corrie.

when you stand in front of a moving giant bulldozer there is a big chance that you'll get run over and he won't see you.

And suffer from short term memory loss that prevents him from remembering that you were there when he got in the bulldozer, and 30 seconds ago when you looked where you were going. And suffers from peripheral blindness and selective deafness that prevents him from seeing the mass of people screaming, pointing, and crying out in horror (or in one case, in pain of getting run over with a bulldozer) as he rolls her down.

Jesus Christ what a farking idiot... The tunnels are built under the house.. this is the whole point, to hide it and the exit.

Except that the Israeli Government itself claims that, in this case, they were clearing debris and brush, and that they were not there to demolish houses or "terrorist tunnels" at all.

i think you humiliated yourself enough

Your mercy is accepted in the spirit in which it is given.

I care very much about the facts

We'll see, I suppose.

mrexcess: frankencj
'Palestinian', 'justice' and 'self determination' all in one sentence? Wow. Try 'Sharia' and 'Theocracy'.

It amazes me that there are so many clueless people out there. The Palestinian Authority has never pushed Sharia, and they aren't a theocracy. There are a lot of Palestinian Arab Christians, and Israel doesn't treat them any better than the Muslims.

Hamas? They've disbanded? Great!