Obama's church? How about Obama, Howard Dean, John Corzine, Judd Gregg, Robert Orr, and much much more?

I bet Hillary's real proud of the fact that her latest dirty political shenanigans have been to make a mockery of the President of the DNC's religion.

I can't wait for the Dem's to sort this all out, hopefully long before Denver.

/fingers crossed

Moss said to an enthusiastic congregation, standing up during much of the sermon.

The writer makes it sound like this is something out of the ordinary. Maybe he/she should visit black churches more often.

Let's see...

AIDS is still killing people...

Cancer still prevalent...

War is going on...

Homeless people in every city...

Housing market crisis...

Deflating value of currency...

New Orleans still a puddle in Hell...

But by all means, let's keep focusing on inane bullshiat.

mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

Mythy: mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

You need some churching up Mythy. In the immortal words of the Rev. Cleophus James:

And now, people.....and now, people...when I woke up this morning, I heard a disturbing sound. I said, when I woke up this morning I heard a disturbing sound. (I heard the sound in my car.) What I heard was the jingle-jangle of a thousand lost souls. And I'm talking about the soul of mortal men and women, departed from this life. Wait a minute, those lost, anguished souls roamin' unseen over the earth, seekin' the divine light, they'll not find. Because it's too late... too late yeah, too late for them to ever see again, the light they once chose not to follow! Alright, alright, don't be lost when the time comes. For the day of the Lord cometh, as a thief in the night. Amen.

Mythy: mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

The UCC is 99% white, with 1.2 million members in the U.S.. And you've obviously never been to a "black" church, because it is more like a good time than anything else.

Listen to Mr. Wright's most controversial sermons, and then you judge for yourself if the church is getting a raw deal.

Stop believing what the news wants you to believe.

Oh what a tangled web we weave....

This is one of the largest churches in the country. Painting it as a cult is going to be a mighty tenuous argument at best.

IgG4: Mythy: mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

You need some churching up Mythy. In the immortal words of the Rev. Cleophus James:

And now, people.....and now, people...when I woke up this morning, I heard a disturbing sound. I said, when I woke up this morning I heard a disturbing sound. (I heard the sound in my car.) What I heard was the jingle-jangle of a thousand lost souls. And I'm talking about the soul of mortal men and women, departed from this life. Wait a minute, those lost, anguished souls roamin' unseen over the earth, seekin' the divine light, they'll not find. Because it's too late... too late yeah, too late for them to ever see again, the light they once chose not to follow! Alright, alright, don't be lost when the time comes. For the day of the Lord cometh, as a thief in the night. Amen.

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: But by all means, let's keep focusing on inane bullshiat.

I've found this to be a good litmus test issue.

If someone claims to be horribly insulted and offended, then they are a partisan idiot, hellbent on only making sure that their 'side' wins and the good of the country be damned.

If someone wants to move past it, then they have an once of brains. And while I might disagree with them on policies, at least they have the country's interests at heart and they are grounded in reality.

Obama goes to church? Then why do the rightwingers keep saying he's Moslem?

/confused

So which of the Rev's best pals is gonna turn him over to the authorities in exchange for a few packs of KOOL's?

Hannity's Soul-Mate of Hate (June 03,2005)
Hannity (Youtube) caught in a gaffe about his racist connections
hal turner (NSFW?)

I love the play on analogues with this story. The rebuttal to the Obama-pastor connection is to poke at the weakness inherent in the analog.

Then, when the story flips, and analogs are used again to poke at the accusers, the same people employing that weakness rush to point it out in a chorus of "NO U".
/NO U

this is why we need an asshole tag to go with the dumbass one

Obligatory at this point.

Obama speaks of bringing everyone together to solve major problems. How can anyone support this type of hate speech?

what i need to know is...

these controversial speeches that were made...they are clips and snipets. did they come from one or 2 sermons?

or did they come from several dozen?

Thank God for Fox News.
I mean, where else can we get our Easter Sunday-kick-the-preacher-and-his-church-around-the-block-for-the-552th time fix?

And what religious group control the media?

I know its lame. Happy Easter.

Mythy: mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

It's a Christian church. Idiot.

God damn America? fine.

get out.

RabidSquirrel: Mythy: mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

It's a Christian church. Idiot.

All churches are cults.

TheCid: RabidSquirrel: Mythy: mehhhhh....a black 'church', more like a cult then anything else.

It's a Christian church. Idiot.

All churches are cults.

Agreed, but he was trying to make some sort of distinction.

thamike: I bet Hillary's real proud of the fact that her latest dirty political shenanigans have been to make a mockery of the President of the DNC's religion.

Hillary? Na, this is from the GOP, since they have begun to focus on the reality that Obama is going to get the nomination.

/Vote McCain. He's not black.

Wow, I've heard some travel horror stories, but rarely do they involve lynching or crucifixion. What a drama queen.

Only Republican rightwing fundies are allowed to call America a goddam Sodom and Gomorrah.

What racist things has Wright said? He's said some kooky things, but that strikes me as typical of any religious leader, nevermind an evangelical religious leader.

What. Racist. Things. Has. He. Said?

Please, I'd really love some examples of this "racist minister." I want to know why one religious leader who's made a few kooky statements has been made into political poison while many white religious leaders have been wholly embraced by more powerful white politicians after making even worse statements.

Oh jesus frigging god...I was dragged to church for the first 20 years of my life by my family, and no matter what church I went to the preacher always spouted crazy bullshiat of some sort or another. These are vanilla, non-denominational Christian churches I'm talking about here, too. I have heard that gays are responsible for 9/11, the Christian majority needs to rise up and overthrow all the liberal conventions in this country, imposing Christian doctrine on all the aspects of public (and private) life, and that America has become a damned country simply because we give lip-service to our founding documents. Anyone that says they havent heard the same sort of insane bullshiat from their preachers is a partisan shill pretending like their particular brand of crazy is somehow more pure and patriotic than their ideological opponent's.

Seriously. This needs to stop. Now.

Bloody William: What racist things has Wright said? He's said some kooky things, but that strikes me as typical of any religious leader, nevermind an evangelical religious leader.

What. Racist. Things. Has. He. Said?

White people invented HIV to kill off blacks.

Accusing "rich white people" of not caring about black issues.

mikeandeichmann: Oh jesus frigging god...I was dragged to church for the first 20 years of my life by my family, and no matter what church I went to the preacher always spouted crazy bullshiat of some sort or another. These are vanilla, non-denominational Christian churches I'm talking about here, too. I have heard that gays are responsible for 9/11, the Christian majority needs to rise up and overthrow all the liberal conventions in this country, imposing Christian doctrine on all the aspects of public (and private) life, and that America has become a damned country simply because we give lip-service to our founding documents. Anyone that says they havent heard the same sort of insane bullshiat from their preachers is a partisan shill pretending like their particular brand of crazy is somehow more pure and patriotic than their ideological opponent's.

Seriously. This needs to stop. Now.

I don't know what kind of church you went to, but I was also raised going to church and I never heard a negative thing in my life there. Everything was "love one another", "peace be with you", and "do unto others how you would have them do unto you". And I don't know of one "crazy religious doomsayer" person even though 99% of the people I know are Christian.

Fact Man: Bloody William: What racist things has Wright said? He's said some kooky things, but that strikes me as typical of any religious leader, nevermind an evangelical religious leader.

What. Racist. Things. Has. He. Said?

White people invented HIV to kill off blacks. Kooky, but not racist.

Accusing "rich white people" of not caring about black issues.

1: Wrong. He said the government invented HIV to kill blacks.

2: Can you look me straight in the eye and honestly say that rich white people as a group care about black issues in a significant way? Metaphorically of course, because I'm not going to turn on a webcam.

He's talked about "white America" and "black America," yes. There are still clearly drawn, quite thick lines between those two Americas. It's easier and more acceptable to cross those longs these days, but the lines are still there. Has Wright ever said anything outright racist about any racial group? White people or black people, AS white or black. Not as their social and economic positions have allowed them. Historically and sociologically, if you don't see differences between those groups, you're a fool. It's not a question of the superiority or inferiority of any group of people.

Fact Man: mikeandeichmann: Oh jesus frigging god...I was dragged to church for the first 20 years of my life by my family, and no matter what church I went to the preacher always spouted crazy bullshiat of some sort or another. These are vanilla, non-denominational Christian churches I'm talking about here, too. I have heard that gays are responsible for 9/11, the Christian majority needs to rise up and overthrow all the liberal conventions in this country, imposing Christian doctrine on all the aspects of public (and private) life, and that America has become a damned country simply because we give lip-service to our founding documents. Anyone that says they havent heard the same sort of insane bullshiat from their preachers is a partisan shill pretending like their particular brand of crazy is somehow more pure and patriotic than their ideological opponent's.

Seriously. This needs to stop. Now.

I don't know what kind of church you went to, but I was also raised going to church and I never heard a negative thing in my life there. Everything was "love one another", "peace be with you", and "do unto others how you would have them do unto you". And I don't know of one "crazy religious doomsayer" person even though 99% of the people I know are Christian.

Choosing a church these days is invariably the matter of choosing between boring and crazy.

That church has some unusual lessons in it sermons, even on Easter.

Fact Man: mikeandeichmann: Oh jesus frigging god...I was dragged to church for the first 20 years of my life by my family, and no matter what church I went to the preacher always spouted crazy bullshiat of some sort or another. These are vanilla, non-denominational Christian churches I'm talking about here, too. I have heard that gays are responsible for 9/11, the Christian majority needs to rise up and overthrow all the liberal conventions in this country, imposing Christian doctrine on all the aspects of public (and private) life, and that America has become a damned country simply because we give lip-service to our founding documents. Anyone that says they havent heard the same sort of insane bullshiat from their preachers is a partisan shill pretending like their particular brand of crazy is somehow more pure and patriotic than their ideological opponent's.

Seriously. This needs to stop. Now.

I don't know what kind of church you went to, but I was also raised going to church and I never heard a negative thing in my life there. Everything was "love one another", "peace be with you", and "do unto others how you would have them do unto you". And I don't know of one "crazy religious doomsayer" person even though 99% of the people I know are Christian.

A deaconess at my church looked around at the worshipers and said "We are getting too many black people in here." That pretty much tore it for me and the Presbyterians. I later realized that pretty much tore it for me with most American churches. It's okay for blacks and other colors to have Christ, just not sitting next to white Christians. If only those people would learn to sit in the back pews.

mikeandeichmann: Seriously. This needs to stop. Now.

Why stop now? The Dems (the public mostly, not the politicians as much) have been complaining about the religious right for a really long time. Now because a Dem is getting hit with the same non-sense, it should stop?

I think they're all Christian nuts, but what goes around comes around. You made your bed, now you have to lay in it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. [Insert 1000 other proverbs here].

Bloody William: Fact Man: Bloody William: What racist things has Wright said? He's said some kooky things, but that strikes me as typical of any religious leader, nevermind an evangelical religious leader.

What. Racist. Things. Has. He. Said?

White people invented HIV to kill off blacks. Kooky, but not racist.

Accusing "rich white people" of not caring about black issues.

1: Wrong. He said the government invented HIV to kill blacks.

2: Can you look me straight in the eye and honestly say that rich white people as a group care about black issues in a significant way? Metaphorically of course, because I'm not going to turn on a webcam.

He's talked about "white America" and "black America," yes. There are still clearly drawn, quite thick lines between those two Americas. It's easier and more acceptable to cross those longs these days, but the lines are still there. Has Wright ever said anything outright racist about any racial group? White people or black people, AS white or black. Not as their social and economic positions have allowed them. Historically and sociologically, if you don't see differences between those groups, you're a fool. It's not a question of the superiority or inferiority of any group of people.

He did say the government invented HIV to kill of blacks, in the context of saying the government is nothing but "rich white people". So add those together, and rich white people invented HIV to kill off blacks.

and of course I know that there are differences between white and black America, but racism will only go away when people stop making race an issue. Saying that Hillary shouldn't be president because she doesn't know what its' like to be black in a country run by rich white people does nothing to help race relations. It only intensifies anti-white sentiment.

When he said Bill Clinton "done us the way he done Monica Lewinsky", what did Bill do to screw blacks?

Basically, his sermon (and you can logically assume other sermons of his) complains that white people are in charge, therefore black people are screwed.

Can't we just look at people as people and not blame shiat on whether you're white or black?

Fact Man: "What. Racist. Things. Has. He. Said?"

White people invented HIV to kill off blacks.

He was probably referring to the findings of Dr. Boyd Graves (pops)

Remove all Republicans: Fact Man: White people invented HIV to kill off blacks.

Accusing "rich white people" of not caring about black issues.

Those aren't necessarily racist so much as racial truths. That's like saying "blacks have a lower life expectancy than whites" is racist.

So you agree with the nonsense assertion that whites invented HIV to kill off blacks and that white people don't care about black people?

I mean, I can make assumptions about you based on your handle, but I'm just trying to see how you really look at the world and what is "truth" to you.

Remove all Republicans: Fact Man: When he said Bill Clinton "done us the way he done Monica Lewinsky", what did Bill do to screw blacks?

Well, comparing Obama to Jesse Jackson implies that all black politicians are the same.

If you're saying they're going to be similar just because they're black, then yes, that would be an incorrect assertion. In the same way Rev. Wright lumps together "rich white people".

Bloody William: I want to know why one religious leader who's made a few kooky statements has been made into political poison while many white religious leaders have been wholly embraced by more powerful white politicians after making even worse statements.

Don't you think people needed a convenient excuse? If it wasn't this, it would have been some other trumped-up charge.

Regardless, I can no longer bring myself to vote for any person of "faith" and long for the day when a rational human being can be a viable candidate for the American presidency.

Remove all Republicans: Fact Man: White people invented HIV to kill off blacks....

Those aren't necessarily racist so much as racial truths. That's like saying "blacks have a lower life expectancy than whites" is racist.

Racial truth, eh? And you vote? That's neat.

dholway: Remove all Republicans: Fact Man: White people invented HIV to kill off blacks....

Those aren't necessarily racist so much as racial truths. That's like saying "blacks have a lower life expectancy than whites" is racist.

Racial truth, eh? And you vote? That's neat.

I LOL'ed.

Fact Man: He did say the government invented HIV to kill of blacks, in the context of saying the government is nothing but "rich white people". So add those together, and rich white people invented HIV to kill off blacks.

and of course I know that there are differences between white and black America, but racism will only go away when people stop making race an issue. Saying that Hillary shouldn't be president because she doesn't know what its' like to be black in a country run by rich white people does nothing to help race relations. It only intensifies anti-white sentiment.

When he said Bill Clinton "done us the way he done Monica Lewinsky", what did Bill do to screw blacks?

Basically, his sermon (and you can logically assume other sermons of his) complains that white people are in charge, therefore black people are screwed.

Can't we just look at people as people and not blame shiat on whether you're white or black?

Platitudes are nice, but these wounds are still raw. There is still a major divide between "white America" and "black America," and it stems from a lot of economic, sociological, and historical factors. It's fine to say that this will all go away if we stop looking at race, but it's not like a lightswitch. It's not something we can just "do" unless we actually face 1: that it happened, 2: why it happened, and 3: how it happened.

Wright was from the generation that was called attractive and successful African-American by white people. The generation that had separate bathrooms and water fountains. The generation that was firehosed when it protested. And he's gone on to lead one of the biggest black churches in Chicago, and he's seen how "black America" has developed against "white America." He's seen the white flight. He's seen the "ghettos" get neglected by government.

He doesn't talk about superiority or inferiority of black or white people, but he does point out that rich white people caused a lot of these problems, or at least looked the other way while they got worse. And that's not racist, it's simply true.

mmagdalene: Bloody William: I want to know why one religious leader who's made a few kooky statements has been made into political poison while many white religious leaders have been wholly embraced by more powerful white politicians after making even worse statements.

Don't you think people needed a convenient excuse? If it wasn't this, it would have been some other trumped-up charge.

Regardless, I can no longer bring myself to vote for any person of "faith" and long for the day when a rational human being can be a viable candidate for the American presidency.

Eh, I see faith best as a way of giving us an outlet to be crazy on Sundays so we can better hide our crazy Monday through Saturday.

There is no reason to put Obama through all of this. Obama is a man running for president. No other person running for president has to explain his views on race because of the sermons of their religious leader. Has any sermon by any pastor of any other candidate been discussed or defended by that candidate?

It's too bad that people will use anything they can to create chaos.

HowlingFrog: Fact Man: "What. Racist. Things. Has. He. Said?"

White people invented HIV to kill off blacks.

He was probably referring to the findings of Dr. Boyd Graves (pops)

SO I read the article, and from what I gather, AIDS could have originated in the U.S., blacks are more susceptible to it, and that's all.

/Not convinced.

Fact Man: SO I read the article, and from what I gather, AIDS could have originated in the U.S., blacks are more susceptible to it, and that's all.

/Not convinced.

It's another version of "9/11 was an inside job." Just another conspiracy theory, really. But it's a (minority) democrat's conspriacy theory, so some people put more stock in it.

Also, we didn't land on the moon and JFK was killed by the CIA.

HowlingFrog: He was probably referring to the findings of Dr. Boyd Graves (pops)

According to Dr. Graves: "...a shadow government where a few elitist White men-in such organizations as the Trilateral Commission, Council of Foreign Relations and, even to some extent, the Illuminati-have made a plan by which two billion of the world's people will perish vis-à-vis these synthetic biological agents. We believe it is the underpinning of what I call the 'African Holocaust.'"