She won't. She's like a two year old grabbing at something and constantly saying: "MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!" and throws a temper tantrum when she doesn't get it.

14. Even though her campaign staff is having more fun than it has for a long time, there's hardly anyone there who, given half a chance, wouldn't slit Mark Penn's throat - and such internal dissension won't help her in the home stretch.

...ouch.

She isn't a monster. She isn't a fool. She has eaten huge bowls of shiat every day for the past 30 + years to get to this place. She is a better candidate than Kerry was. She is a better candidate than that mongoloid Gore was. She is a better candidate than her husband was in 1992. She is a better candidate than Dukakis or Mondale. The problem is that Obama is a better candidate than she is.In 8 years when she can run again she'll be 70 (i.e. too old). The fact that she is still swinging as long as she has a half a chance she might get the nomination isn't surprising.

Sir Roderick Glossop: The problem is that Obama is a better candidate than she is.In 8 years when she can run again she'll be 70 (i.e. too old). The fact that she is still swinging as long as she has a half a chance she might get the nomination isn't surprising.

That is why I suspect that she is going to try to pull a Ted Kennedy stunt and split the party at the convention to prevent Obama from winning in November. 66 is not too old to run in 2012 against McCain.

Sir Roderick Glossop: ...as long as she has a half a chance she might get the nomination isn't surprising.

Yes... but if the finish line will never be hers, she should stop the damage and throw her hat in with the winner. The failure to do so is ego and nothing else.

ComicBookGuy: She won't. She's like a two year old grabbing at something and constantly saying: "MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!" and throws a temper tantrum when she doesn't get it.

I know, and it's GREAT theater! I can't wait for her to get to the convention and try to steal the precious...er...I mean, steal the nomination.

Code_Archeologist: That is why I suspect that she is going to try to pull a Ted Kennedy stunt and split the party at the convention to prevent Obama from winning in November. 66 is not too old to run in 2012 against McCain.

I thought the Kennedy/ Carter situation led to the creation of superdelegates. I thought they were supposed to step up and prevent a brokered convention.


Rain-Monkey: Yes... but if the finish line will never be hers, she should stop the damage and throw her hat in with the winner. The failure to do so is ego and nothing else.

I agree. And I think she will do the honorable thing. Because it also happens to be the only way to save any face whatsoever. The alternative is total humiliation with the added effect of making everyone hate her. Especially if the Democrats lose in November. She'll get blamed one way or the other.

Sir Roderick Glossop: The alternative is total humiliation with the added effect of making everyone hate her. Especially if the Democrats lose in November. She'll get blamed one way or the other.

I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Thoughts like that keep me warm at night....

Sir Roderick Glossop: I thought the Kennedy/ Carter situation led to the creation of superdelegates. I thought they were supposed to step up and prevent a brokered convention.

Superdelegates were created because elected officials were unhappy that they were having to run against their own constituents for delegate positions.

And the stunt that I fear her pulling is refusing to endorse Obama after he gets the nomination... possibly even pulling off a teary eyed speech about how she worries for the future of the country and the party.

Weaver95: I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Thoughts like that keep me warm at night....

Damn boy. You have a finely honed sense of schadenfreud.

So you think that McCain will be able to withstand the inevitable alienation of the social conservatives when he redoubles his efforts to look centrist for a general election? Those fundies are a persnickety lot...

Code_Archeologist: And the stunt that I fear her pulling is refusing to endorse Obama after he gets the nomination... possibly even pulling off a teary eyed speech about how she worries for the future of the country and the party.

I can't imagine she would be that short-sighted. Why do you worry she would do this? What would she stand to gain?

Sir Roderick Glossop: Weaver95: I think that is exactly what is going to happen. Thoughts like that keep me warm at night....

Damn boy. You have a finely honed sense of schadenfreud.

So you think that McCain will be able to withstand the inevitable alienation of the social conservatives when he redoubles his efforts to look centrist for a general election? Those fundies are a persnickety lot...

I think that the GOP is already listing as the Religious Right has realized that they got duped by GW and his crew--and have been for years. It's an interesting time to be a Republican, but in the Chinese curse sort of sense...

Sir Roderick Glossop: I can't imagine she would be that short-sighted. Why do you worry she would do this? What would she stand to gain?

If Obama wins in November she will not be able to run for President again until 2016 (She will be 70 and too old in many people's eyes). If McCain wins in November she will be able to try again in 2012, and only be 66. The clock is ticking for her and she only has 2008 and 2012 available for her to be able to win the Presidency.

Code_Archeologist: Sir Roderick Glossop: I can't imagine she would be that short-sighted. Why do you worry she would do this? What would she stand to gain?

If Obama wins in November she will not be able to run for President again until 2016 (She will be 70 and too old in many people's eyes). If McCain wins in November she will be able to try again in 2012, and only be 66. The clock is ticking for her and she only has 2008 and 2012 available for her to be able to win the Presidency.

Which is sort of sad, but only makes her less Presidential, in that she is far more worried about her own career than the fate of the country...

That is if she actually feels that the Democrats offer a bitter vision of the future. If so, then she'd do what was good for the party and the country. Which her run so far has only cemented that she in fact doesn't. Much more about her than the ideas or ideals.

That's the real message that voters have gotten, and if she pushes this, she'll only wind up pushing voters away from the party and certainly from herself. This is the sort of run that could wind up costing her career, period.

hubiestubert: I think that the GOP is already listing as the Religious Right has realized that they got duped by GW and his crew--and have been for years...

They shouldn't be too pissed. They got Alito and Roberts out of the deal.

And, please, do what you can to get rid of the fundies. I'd love to be able to support Republicans and become an Independent again. But as long as they are the party of fundamentalist Christianity and are homophobic and science phobic- forget it. Further, Bush et al are a bunch of Corporate Socialists. That is even more annoying to me than the tax-spend features of Democrats. At least the Democrats take from the people and give back to people (inefficiently of course) rather than enriching individuals and corporations at the taxpayers' expense.

In short, get real conservatives to take back the party and I (and many like me) will support exceptional candidates irrespective of party.

Code_Archeologist: And the stunt that I fear her pulling is refusing to endorse Obama after he gets the nomination... possibly even pulling off a teary eyed speech about how she worries for the future of the country and the party.

She would have to be utterly insane to do that.

I'm worried.

Code_Archeologist: not be able to run for President again until 2016 (She will be 70 and too old in many people's eyes). If McCain wins in November she will be able to try again in 2012, and only be 66. The clock is ticking for her and she only has 2008 and 2012 available for her to be able to win the Presidency.

I think this is a very remote contingency. It would be political suicide.

Sir Roderick Glossop: So you think that McCain will be able to withstand the inevitable alienation of the social conservatives when he redoubles his efforts to look centrist for a general election? Those fundies are a persnickety lot...

I think that if Hillary gets the Democrat nomination, the Republicans could nominate a ham sandwich and beat her in the general election.

Sir Roderick Glossop: Code_Archeologist: not be able to run for President again until 2016 (She will be 70 and too old in many people's eyes). If McCain wins in November she will be able to try again in 2012, and only be 66. The clock is ticking for her and she only has 2008 and 2012 available for her to be able to win the Presidency.

I think this is a very remote contingency. It would be political suicide.

Maybe, but remember that Teddy Roosevelt decided to run as an independent and split his own party after 8 years of already being president. And he's considered a *good* guy.

Sir Roderick Glossop: Code_Archeologist: not be able to run for President again until 2016 (She will be 70 and too old in many people's eyes). If McCain wins in November she will be able to try again in 2012, and only be 66. The clock is ticking for her and she only has 2008 and 2012 available for her to be able to win the Presidency.

I think this is a very remote contingency. It would be political suicide.

I don't think Hillary cares about the consequences. she wants to be President and she believes that this is her only shot. So she's going to do everything she can to win the nomination.

Sir Roderick Glossop: I think this is a very remote contingency. It would be political suicide.

Ted Kennedy torpedoed Carter at the convention in 1980 with his "Dream Shall Never Die" speech and the picture of him not shaking Carter's hand at the podium. Kennedy went on to become a major party figure... Carter lost the election and for the most part left politics. History shows that being a farking asshole does equate to political suicide.

Sir Roderick Glossop: And, please, do what you can to get rid of the fundies. I'd love to be able to support Republicans and become an Independent again. But as long as they are the party of fundamentalist Christianity and are homophobic and science phobic- forget it. Further, Bush et al are a bunch of Corporate Socialists. That is even more annoying to me than the tax-spend features of Democrats. At least the Democrats take from the people and give back to people (inefficiently of course) rather than enriching individuals and corporations at the taxpayers' expense.

In short, get real conservatives to take back the party and I (and many like me) will support exceptional candidates irrespective of party.

Bingo. These last few years have been dark country for Conservatives who never got on board for the whole "Neo" labeling frenzy. Domestic and foreign policy both have been disastrous on their watch, and now it doesn't matter who wins, it's going to be a long slog to get the economy and the nation back to rights. GW and his crew certainly "changed the tone" when they came into office, and the country is more widely divided, and more contentious than ever.

I've been trying, but the idiots keep snapping up at the Kool-Aid that they'll get to sit at the Big Kids' Table...

DamnYankees: Maybe, but remember that Teddy Roosevelt decided to run as an independent and split his own party after 8 years of already being president. And he's considered a *good* guy.

Forgot about the Bull Moose Party. Fair enough.

Weaver95: I think that if Hillary gets the Democratic nomination, the Republicans could nominate a ham sandwich and beat her in the general election.

FTFY (you sneaky devil). If we were coming off anything but 8 years of one of the most disastrous administrations in our lifetimes I'd agree with you. In this case, I think the Democrats can dither, bicker, pick a battle wounded and weary candidate to front a fractured party and still have better odds of winning than the Republicans have.

Code_Archeologist: Sir Roderick Glossop: I think this is a very remote contingency. It would be political suicide.

Ted Kennedy torpedoed Carter at the convention in 1980 with his "Dream Shall Never Die" speech and the picture of him not shaking Carter's hand at the podium. Kennedy went on to become a major party figure... Carter lost the election and for the most part left politics. History shows that being a farking asshole does equate to political suicide.

You think there's a chance in hell Hillary gives a speech as good as "The Dream Shall Never Die"? That's the best speech given at any time by a Democrat between JFK and Obama.

If he hadn't given that speech, I'm not he wouldn't have been hurt by history. I don't think Hillary can do that same.

DamnYankees: Maybe, but remember that Teddy Roosevelt decided to run as an independent and split his own party after 8 years of already being president. And he's considered a *good* guy.

Teddy was also an egotistical bastiche with a high voice and a goodly case of overcompensation syndrome...oh wait.

I see what you did there...

Sir Roderick Glossop: FTFY (you sneaky devil). If we were coming off anything but 8 years of one of the most disastrous administrations in our lifetimes I'd agree with you. In this case, I think the Democrats can dither, bicker, pick a battle wounded and weary candidate to front a fractured party and still have better odds of winning than the Republicans have.

The sad part? If the Democrats nominate anyone OTHER than Hillary - they win the white house. And they know it. But Hillary won't get out of the way. AND she might actually manage to steal the nomination out from under Obama.

I could be wrong about that...but that's just what I see as the most likely result of the convention. either way, it's going to be fun to watch.

Sir Roderick Glossop: In short, get real conservatives to take back the party and I (and many like me) will support exceptional candidates irrespective of party.

This.

Also, tell Honoria that Bertie says "hullo!"

DamnYankees: You think there's a chance in hell Hillary gives a speech as good as "The Dream Shall Never Die"? That's the best speech given at any time by a Democrat between JFK and Obama.


Oh good God no. She's going to give us a Two Minutes Hate version of why it's all Bush's fault, then loop the tape to fill up her alloted time.

Weaver95: Oh good God no. She's going to give us a Two Minutes Hate version of why it's all Bush's Obama's fault, then loop the tape to fill up her alloted time.

FTFY

DamnYankees: You think there's a chance in hell Hillary gives a speech as good as "The Dream Shall Never Die"? That's the best speech given at any time by a Democrat between JFK and Obama.

My Grandfather used to say, Even a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn. Which means that no I don't expect her to be able to pull off a "Dream Will Never Die" speech... but it could happen. The stars could align, she could sell her soul to Beelzebub, and summon Abe Lincoln to write it for her... it could happen.

Code_Archeologist: History shows that being a farking asshole does equate to political suicide.

Your point is well made and well taken. I would add, however, that the 1980 race followed Carter's rather terrible term as president. Kennedy ran because Carter sucked so bad. Carter crashing as a politician as it was, and Kennedy could look like the brave soldier (and they only one with the political capital) to unseat the President.


Weaver95: The sad part? If the Democrats nominate anyone OTHER than Hillary - they win the white house. And they know it. But Hillary won't get out of the way. AND she might actually manage to steal the nomination out from under Obama.

I could be wrong about that...but that's just what I see as the most likely result of the convention. either way, it's going to be fun to watch.

Fun for you. Less so for me. But I can't pretend I wouldn't be cackling like a fool if the shoe was on the other foot and McCain and Romney were in some death spiral...

Code_Archeologist: DamnYankees: You think there's a chance in hell Hillary gives a speech as good as "The Dream Shall Never Die"? That's the best speech given at any time by a Democrat between JFK and Obama.

My Grandfather used to say, Even a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn. Which means that no I don't expect her to be able to pull off a "Dream Will Never Die" speech... but it could happen. The stars could align, she could sell her soul to Beelzebub, and summon Abe Lincoln to write it for her... it could happen.

wouldn't she have to HAVE a soul in order to sell it? Oh, wait! I just figured out Chelsea's role in the campaign!

Code_Archeologist: My Grandfather used to say, Even a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn. Which means that no I don't expect her to be able to pull off a "Dream Will Never Die" speech... but it could happen. The stars could align, she could sell her soul to Beelzebub, and summon Abe Lincoln to write it for her... it could happen.

Even so, it takes two things to make a great speech - words and delivery. A speechwriter can give her the words, but she is unable to do the delivery. Ted Kennedy is one of the best speakers we've seen, and he knocked it out of the park.

Sir Roderick Glossop: Your point is well made and well taken. I would add, however, that the 1980 race followed Carter's rather terrible term as president. Kennedy ran because Carter sucked so bad. Carter crashing as a politician as it was, and Kennedy could look like the brave soldier (and they only one with the political capital) to unseat the President.

This is true. Hillary isn't trying to take this away from a limp fish. She is trying to take it from the most eloquent, hopeful, and dynamic candidate most of us have ever seen in our lives.

Oh, and the first black guy who has a shot. That'll go over well with 1/6 of the country.

hubiestubert: Bingo. These last few years have been dark country for Conservatives who never got on board for the whole "Neo" labeling frenzy. Domestic and foreign policy both have been disastrous on their watch, and now it doesn't matter who wins, it's going to be a long slog to get the economy and the nation back to rights. GW and his crew certainly "changed the tone" when they came into office, and the country is more widely divided, and more contentious than ever.

I've been trying, but the idiots keep snapping up at the Kool-Aid that they'll get to sit at the Big Kids' Table...

Mickey Edwards (R OK) has a new book coming out about reclaiming conservativism. I heard him speak a couple of weeks ago and talked with him afterwards. He is a terrific guy and I want to get the book- but it is in press now.

CougarJeff: This. Also, tell Honoria that Bertie says "hullo!"

Mr. Wooster, when I lunched at your home there were cats present after you specifically assured me there weren't. Good day sir! (BTW you are now the fourth person to indicate you got the reference)

Sir Roderick Glossop: Mr. Wooster, when I lunched at your home there were cats present after you specifically assured me there weren't. Good day sir! (BTW you are now the fourth person to indicate you got the reference)

Haha! Yes, well.. ah! But you did get your hat back, hey? That has to count for something, what ho?

(Is there a Roderick Spode on Fark?)

13. Obama is having fun most days, and she isn't.

To Hillary:

CougarJeff: (Is there a Roderick Spode on Fark?)

Weaver occasionally acts like a fascist. The real question would be whether he runs a lingerie shop.

If New Yorkers had rejected her carpet-bagging stepping-stone Senatorial run in the first place we wouldn't be having this discuession.

ComicBookGuy: She won't. She's like a two year old grabbing at something and constantly saying: "MINE MINE MINE MINE!!!" and throws a temper tantrum when she doesn't get it.

Instead of a two-year-old, I hear her more as Daffy Duck.

Code_Archeologist: That is why I suspect that she is going to try to pull a Ted Kennedy stunt and split the party at the convention to prevent Obama from winning in November. 66 is not too old to run in 2012 against McCain.

That is a dangerous game for her to play because she if she screws with the convention too hard, she could actually end up taking the nomination and losing in November, OR she could shiat in the pool, Obama end up with the nomination and still win in November. Either of these possibilities means that her name is MUD.

TFA: 14. Even though her campaign staff is having more fun than it has for a long time, there's hardly anyone there who, given half a chance, wouldn't slit Mark Penn's throat - and such internal dissension won't help her in the home stretch.

Hillary only hires psychopathic killers!

Man after that recent time article saying we need a leader who will... "Change" things, Im really not surpsied at all.

I thought huckabee made a good point when he stayed in the race. He said, he stayed in the race to continue a diologe through the media with McCain in order to keep talking about Republican ideals... or somthing like that. If he ment that or not I think it was a good idea, even if he dint have a chanse of winning. Hillary is staying in it for greed, And I think she thinks she can use her political influense to get the super-delegates she needs... and so she does have a hope, be it slim.

Sir Roderick Glossop: Mr. Wooster, when I lunched at your home there were cats present after you specifically assured me there weren't.

I'd love to buy that painting. Is it a Cochoran?

/"Still Life with Eggplant"

Where's Hillary? (new window)

DamnYankees: Code_Archeologist: And the stunt that I fear her pulling is refusing to endorse Obama after he gets the nomination... possibly even pulling off a teary eyed speech about how she worries for the future of the country and the party.

She would have to be utterly insane to do that.

I'm worried.

Thought experiment:

Try to imagine Senator Clinton giving any other kind of concession speech. For example, an ideal one: Upbeat, gracious, fully and sincerely acknowledging her opponent's successes and virtues, dismissing the vigorous rhetoric of the primary trail, professing her unqualified support for presumptive nominee Senator Obama, and compellingly persuading her supporters to do the same. Setting an example decorum, collegiality, honesty, unity, perspective, professionalism, maturity.

Can't do it, can you?

Try even the most perfunctory, minimal concession.

I don't see it.

She chose a path that leaves her with no way out. She co-opted the political playbook of the Clintons' previous opponents, which includes such absolute axioms as:
- Under no circumstances admit weakness, fault, or error; ever, for the rest of your career.
- Never acknowledge any success by, or virtue in, your opponent.
- Blame your opponent for your transgressions, preferably before you commit them.
- Attack your opponent for your own weaknesses.
- Attack your opponent on their strengths, turning them into weaknesses.
- You are working for the win; nothing else matters.
- Fifty-plus-one percent is a win.

No. 14 made me spit my diet pepsi all over my keyboard.


Given the hubris of this guy, I don't advocate killing him, but I'd laugh if somebody cockpunched him.

BuckTurgidson: Try to imagine Senator Clinton giving any other kind of concession speech. For example, an ideal one: Upbeat, gracious, fully and sincerely acknowledging her opponent's successes and virtues, dismissing the vigorous rhetoric of the primary trail, professing her unqualified support for presumptive nominee Senator Obama, and compellingly persuading her supporters to do the same. Setting an example decorum, collegiality, honesty, unity, perspective, professionalism, maturity.

Can't do it, can you?

Try even the most perfunctory, minimal concession.

I don't see it.

No offense, but did you steal this from me? I posted something very much like this, comparing different types of concessions speeches and not being able to imagine her making any, a few weeks ago here.

Not annoyed, but I'd like to think I'm flattered! :)

Relax, righties, Hillary will lose the nomination before the convention and you can go back to hating McCain.

BuckTurgidson:
- Fifty-plus-one percent is a win.

Actually, I think you meant "Fifty-percent plus one is a win."

Spot on, other than that. The only other way that I can see it going is for her to send Bill out to say that she's exhausted herself in the final days of the campaign, but "we" want to congratulate Senator Obama... yadda, yadda, yadda.

Baby boomers!

BuckTurgidson: Try to imagine Senator Clinton giving any other kind of concession speech. For example, an ideal one: Upbeat, gracious, fully and sincerely acknowledging her opponent's successes and virtues, dismissing the vigorous rhetoric of the primary trail, professing her unqualified support for presumptive nominee Senator Obama, and compellingly persuading her supporters to do the same. Setting an example decorum, collegiality, honesty, unity, perspective, professionalism, maturity.

Can't do it, can you?

I can.