Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right.

If only GWB had a boatload of foreign oil money coming in to fund his schemes instead of a bunch of IOUs.

El Dudereno: If only GWB had a boatload of foreign oil money coming in to fund his schemes instead of a bunch of IOUs.

If only we could drill our own.

37% of America approves of him too.

Oh boy! Is this the Hugo Chavez supporter straw man thread?

GaryPDX: Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right.

QFTMFT

Cagey B: Oh boy! Is this the Hugo Chavez supporter straw man thread?

A straw man is generally not require when dealing with a Hugo Chavez supporter.

It's nice to know there is a place somewhere with a leader that is just as embarrassing as ours.

AmazingRuss: It's nice to know there is a place somewhere with a leader that is just as embarrassing as ours.

Auctaly, I think W is dumb, Chavez is fruit loopy.

GaryPDX: Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right.

Actually, the right is kinda far to the left right now as I see it.

Subby: Hugo Chavez now about as popular in Venezuela as George Bush is in America

Well, if you're going to make that particular comparison, let's look at the latest poll numbers:

Chavez: 34%
Bush: 19%

Hmmmmmmm....

Chavez is still SIGNIFICANTLY more popular among Venezuelans than Bush is among those of us in the USA.

/Not a supporter of either.

Dancin_In_Anson: El Dudereno: If only GWB had a boatload of foreign oil money coming in to fund his schemes instead of a bunch of IOUs.

If only we could drill our own.

If we started drilling our own reserves of oil, we'd have enough to last until the end of GWB's term.

Unright: If we started drilling our own reserves of oil, we'd have enough to last until the end of GWB's term.

Really? Do tell.

fark. Home of the expert everyones.

When I was living in Europe, the bartender at the regular bar I went to was Venezuelan and he hated Chavez.

Well if the US wasn't forcing a proxy war down there, perhaps he wouldn't get as much bad press.

Seabon: When I was living in Europe, the bartender at the regular bar I went to was Venezuelan and he hated Chavez.

Well, that settles it then.

This must be a mistake! Chavez is a Total Farker god! It is obviously because Bu$cho, Chimpy McFlightsuit is sabotaging him in his country!

/This is what most of you Total Farkers sound like to the average guy.

Once the money link between FARC and Chavez is proven to the satisfaction of the powers-that-be in South America, his days are numbered...

GaryPDX:

Clowns to the left, Jokers to the right.

You know, every time you trot out that tired gag I get that damned song stuck in my head again. That right there is reason enough for me to hate you with a fiery passion.

Dancin_In_Anson: El Dudereno: If only GWB had a boatload of foreign oil money coming in to fund his schemes instead of a bunch of IOUs.

If only we could drill our own.

That would just make every state look like Texas.

Change in El Nacional

Historically, the newspaper received criticism by the governments under the AD and COPEI parties for it has tended to support the political beliefs of moderate left. At the end of 20th century it tacitly supported President Hugo Chávez. However, since the radicalization of Chavez's politics and position, the newspaper now holds an active anti-Chavez tone.

Sleeping Monkey: That would just make every state look like Texas.

You wish...

Nemo's Brother: This must be a mistake! Chavez is a Total Farker god! It is obviously because Bu$cho, Chimpy McFlightsuit is sabotaging him in his country!

/This is what most of you Total Farkers sound like to the average guy.

BKITU,

actually, the made up numbers i prefer are
Bush-100%
Chavez-0%


lowest approval rating of any 20th century US President: HST at 22%.

proteus_b:

lowest approval rating of any 20th century US President: HST at 22%.

Hunter S. Thompson used to be President? I must have been high at the time.

proteus_b: BKITU,

actually, the made up numbers i prefer are
Bush-100%
Chavez-0%


lowest approval rating of any 20th century US President: HST at 22%.

Well, the 34% is from TFA, and the 19% I saw recently (can't remember where), but the only verifiable Bush Approval poll numbers I've seen are still 30-31%. Not making stuff up, but I redact the 19% since I can't link a source offhand.

That said, I had no idea Hunter S. Thompson was ever President!

Unright: Dancin_In_Anson: El Dudereno: If only GWB had a boatload of foreign oil money coming in to fund his schemes instead of a bunch of IOUs.

If only we could drill our own.

If we started drilling our own reserves of oil, we'd have enough to last until the end of GWB's term.

Incorrrecto.

proteus_b: BKITU,

actually, the made up numbers i prefer are
Bush-100%
Chavez-0%


lowest approval rating of any 20th century US President: HST at 22%.

that would be so cool if the Hubble Space Telescope could be president.

Amazing what the King of Spain is able to do in terms of regime change.
Chavy has been like a crashing plane ever since that outburst.

laaar,

it has nothing to do with rain or spain. it has to do with increasing frustration of venezuelans as castro steps on more toes and fails to deliver on promises. typical politician woes for a typical politician.

BravadoGT: Once the money link between FARC and Chavez is proven to the satisfaction of the powers-that-be in South America, his days are numbered...

We're getting money from Chavez? Obviously Drew is spending it all on beer and keeping it from the rest of us. Time for a TotalFark revolt!

In other words; Too much!

Gyrfalcon: BravadoGT: Once the money link between FARC and Chavez is proven to the satisfaction of the powers-that-be in South America, his days are numbered...

We're getting money from Chavez? Obviously Drew is spending it all on beer and keeping it from the rest of us. Time for a TotalFark revolt!

You guys keep talking about Fark being some kind of terrorist organization. I know there are some annoying people on here, but I don't really wish death to any of them.

/It's Fark, not Farc

Nemo's Brother: Gyrfalcon: BravadoGT: Once the money link between FARC and Chavez is proven to the satisfaction of the powers-that-be in South America, his days are numbered...

We're getting money from Chavez? Obviously Drew is spending it all on beer and keeping it from the rest of us. Time for a TotalFark revolt!

You guys keep talking about Fark being some kind of terrorist organization. I know there are some annoying people on here, but I don't really wish death to any of them.

/It's Fark, not Farc

Some people take life much too seriously. These are the people who need more beer and pretzels.

/and porn.

BKITU: proteus_b: BKITU,

actually, the made up numbers i prefer are
Bush-100%
Chavez-0%


lowest approval rating of any 20th century US President: HST at 22%.

Well, the 34% is from TFA, and the 19% I saw recently (can't remember where), but the only verifiable Bush Approval poll numbers I've seen are still 30-31%. Not making stuff up, but I redact the 19% since I can't link a source offhand.

That said, I had no idea Hunter S. Thompson was ever President!
-------
BMulligan: proteus_b:

lowest approval rating of any 20th century US President: HST at 22%.

Hunter S. Thompson used to be President? I must have been high at the time.
-------
Harry Truman

I'm Hugo Chavez, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...

BravadoGT wrote:
"Once the money link between FARC and Chavez is proven to the satisfaction of the powers-that-be in South America, his days are numbered..."

You mean the infamous lap-top files that survived the bombing attack by the Colombian military on FARC members inside Ecuador? Yeah, those got translated. You got nothin'.(new window)

But if you are looking for Latin American leaders with proven ties to paramilitary death squads, then Uribe (new window) and the Colombian Government (new window) can be a place to start. It even features a lap-top. Though don't worry- that doesn't hurt Uribe's high domestic popularity in Colombia or the massive US military support.

FTA: "It was unclear who paid for the poll, or how the questionnaire was structured. Pollsters at Datos could not be reached for comment."

Wow. Transparent and clear findings then. Just type up the press release and spell-check, boys! Another day of easy "journalism"!

FTA: "Polls have consistently shown that rampant crime is a major concern to Venezuelans. Double-digit inflation has also accelerated, and sporadic shortages of milk and other food products persist."

Yes, rampant crime is a major concern to Venezuelans. Whoa, some facts got in there!

Inflation is up in early '08; but let's look at the last four years:
Inflation Rates in Venezuela, 2003 - 2007 (new window):
2003 31%
2004 31%
2005 22%
2006 16%
2007 16%

This is high in the world. Not so high in the last few decades of Venezuela. Inflation actually hit 103% briefly under the previous Venezuelan administration, and was higher than Chavez' term by far- which is why the opposition in Venezuela has had trouble convincing most of the Venezuelan population that they know how to run the country.

Food shortages do continue to exist. There are a number of different factors. One is the price controls Chavez set on staple foods, which pissed off agribusiness to no end, and it is arguable that in the long term it is not economically viable. Another factor is that Venezuela imports close to two-thirds of their food- higher than any other nation on the continent- at the same time that the buying power of the poor has increased- which means consumption of food is up (new window): eggs up 40% in the last four years, poultry up 45%.

If you really wanna get meta you can look at the possession of 60% of the arable land in Venezuela by less than 2% of the population, and the fact that much of that same land lies fallow- and then you get to one of the biggest reasons Chavez is hated by the elite in the US and internationally- he has undertaken land reform (new window), which scares them poo-less. Plus all that US oil under Venezuela's soil.

If you wanna argue Chavez says a lot of bombastic and poorly thought out to just plain stupid things, I ain't gonna argue. You wanna point out there are serious problems in Venezuela- we may quibble over which problems, but generally I think I can agree. But ask yourself: why is it that the US press can't stop reporting on how bad Chavez is? Can Americans name three other leaders in that region? Do they know anything about Chavez other than what they have been told by the US Administration and the MSM? Do yourself a favor and look up the US admin position and US press reporting on Guatemala's Arbenz or Chile's Allende, two democratically elected leaders the US overthrew to put in brutal puppet dictators. They wanted land reform and social programs as well. Keep in mind Venezuela voted Chavez in democratically a number of times, by wide margins, and they can vote him out.

Just out of curiosity, what is the All new democratic congress' (tm) approval rating? I

Remove all Republicans


Plus, Chavez managed to fight out numerous government coups sent by the Bush administration.

Really? Name one. There was a half-assed sponsorship of an attempt, but that was put in motion under Clinton.

And it gave Chavez an excuse to destroy free speech.

chunksmediocrites
Can Americans name three other leaders in that region?

Off the top of my head:

Uribe of Colombia
Morales of Bolivia (saw him interviewed - seemed like a sweet guy, but so naive - pity he ended up as Chavez's sock puppet)
Correa of Ecuador

All in the news recently

defects: Just out of curiosity, what is the All new democratic congress' (tm) approval rating? I

Who gives a fark, and who ever has ever given a fark? Congress is a mixture of many people from many places with many ideas, if you want to judge Congress, you might as well just judge America.

chunksmediocrites: ...

Give me a break. Everything you've said is what Chavez has been spoonfeeding to his puppets to blindly repeat as much as possible to cover his own crap.
These types of arguments are pointless to have because people will rarely change their set mind, but these posts are so typical that I had to say something this time.

Until you actually live down here (like I currently do), you've lost much of your argument as far as I'm concerned. If you do live here, you will see right through the obvious BS coming from Venezuela. It's impossible not to.

No hard feelings, just sick of the crap floating around.

chunksmediocrites: BravadoGT wrote:
"Once the money link between FARC and Chavez is proven to the satisfaction of the powers-that-be in South America, his days are numbered..."

You mean the infamous lap-top files that survived the bombing attack by the Colombian military on FARC members inside Ecuador? Yeah, those got translated. You got nothin'.(new window)

But if you are looking for Latin American leaders with proven ties to paramilitary death squads, then Uribe (new window) and the Colombian Government (new window) can be a place to start. It even features a lap-top. Though don't worry- that doesn't hurt Uribe's high domestic popularity in Colombia or the massive US military support.

Chavez ties with Farc are more than proven, the guy gave a one minute silence for the leader killed! you have to be very stupid, or very cinical to believe all the leftist bullshiat against the colombian government and pro-guerrillas. There's no laptop with proof about these supposed ties of Uribe and paramilitaries, I don't know what the hell do you mean by "proven", if it's about the congress men linked to paras then you are correct, and guess what, they are in jail. If this supposed ties had such solid proof Uribe would be in jail in no time, the opposition has been salivating for an opportunity like that and if there was such information the process against Uribe would be unstoppable.

How does this happened anyway? the demobilization process of paramilitaries led to many of them to confess their links with polititians, and who started the demobilization process in the first place? I'm sure you know it...

The laptop issue was left for the interpol to manage, that doesn't mean it has been proved "fake" ( I seriously can't believe you quoted a farking blog as your source, jesus...), the police here has plenty of experience dealing with criminal organizations like Farc, it was a mistake to reveal this, but I really doubt they are just making it all up.

No, Uribe is no saint, but that is pretty much expected from any polititian, and there's hardly a single country in latinamerica without deep corruption problems, maybe chile, and thats still a maybe, but "Uribe is a paramilatry" is simply put Farc's propaganda spread by the usual useful idiots around the world.

And now I feel the need to point out the most absurd lies I've read just in case someone ignorant of the situations starts to give credit to such blogs.

"Luckily for a hemisphere the verge of flames, the President of Ecuador, Raphael Correa, is one of the most level-headed, thoughtful men I've ever encountered.

Correa is now flying from Quito to Brazilia to Caracas to keep the region from blowing sky high. While moving troops to his border - no chief of state can permit foreign tanks on their sovereign soil - Correa also refuses sanctuary to the FARC . Indeed, Ecuador has routed out 47 FARC bases, a better track record than Colombia's own, corrupt military.

For his cool, peaceable handling of the crisis, I will forgive Correa for apologizing for his calling Bush, "a dimwitted President who has done great damage to his country and the world.""

If it wasn't obvious enough, this is pure BS from beginning to end. The one with the inflamatory speech was Correa all the time, his latinamerican tour was to make the whole region condemn Colombia, not to alleviate any crisis, since the region wasn't "blowing sky high", he wanted actually to make such thing happen and to make everyone turn against Colombia. The colombian military has destroyed far more than 47 farcs camps in this long and painful history, and if Ecuador's military was so amazing, it makes no damn sense Farc's top leader was wondering around so happily and relaxed in ecuador's soil that the guy was sleeping in pijamas, where has anyone heard a guerrillero not sleeping uniformed and with his weapon by his side?. The greatest irony of this is that the "peaceable" president was the one moving soldiers to the border, and the one with words like "we should bomb the casa de nariño (colombia's presidential house) because its full of paramilitaries" while he was in his "peaceful" tour. And no I'm not making this up, just google it.

Now the "negotiator" killed had a list of crimes from extortion and massacres to sexual abuse of girls as young as nine. He was so in line with his communist political view that he sported an $18000 rolex gold watch, that he showed proudly, and also celebrated drinking fine scotch, as the photos in the laptops have shown. However we colombians are never short of stupid foreigners trying to defend these guys or trying to attack the government for defending the country against them.

r0bster: chunksmediocrites: ...

Give me a break. Everything you've said is what Chavez has been spoonfeeding to his puppets to blindly repeat as much as possible to cover his own crap.

Feel free to point out which things I wrote you believe were false. Because who says it matters less than whether or not it is accurate, which leads us to your next statement...

These types of arguments are pointless to have because people will rarely change their set mind, but these posts are so typical that I had to say something this time.

Arguments can be pointless, though I have admitted error before on Fark and other boards and probably will again. I'm happy to read whatever you have to offer that backs up your position.

Until you actually live down here (like I currently do), you've lost much of your argument as far as I'm concerned. If you do live here, you will see right through the obvious BS coming from Venezuela. It's impossible not to.

Right. Geographical location trumps fact-checking? If you are talking about Alo Presidente, I will agree with anyone that Chavez' bombast and statements run the gamut from non-sensical to full foot-in-mouth. But again, which part of my argument is false? If you live in Venezuela and say something visceral but without the structure of a rational argument, does that mean I should take your word for it?

No hard feelings, just sick of the crap floating around.

Uh huh.

mantidor:

Chavez ties with Farc are more than proven, the guy gave a one minute silence for the leader killed!

Which proves...what again? Are the ties you are talking about Chavez negotiating the release of hostages held by FARC for years, something Uribe was unwilling or unable to do, and embarassed thereby?

you have to be very stupid, or very cinical to believe all the leftist bullshiat against the colombian government and pro-guerrillas.

I don't take the word of FARC that kills civilians, has ties to drug producers, and sends indiscriminate bombs into civilian areas, all the while hurting the people they claim to represent. I also don't take the word of the Colombian government with ties to the paramilitary death squads that kill trade unionists, human rights observers, and other civilians, and have ties to drug producers, all the while hurting the people they claim to represent. They both have war crimes to answer for.

There's no laptop with proof about these supposed ties of Uribe and paramilitaries, I don't know what the hell do you mean by "proven",

From Wiki:
The Supreme Court investigation into ties between paramilitary groups and congress (new window) has been based largely on files discovered on a laptop computer belonging to the organization of former paramilitary leader Rodrigo Tovar Pupo, aka Jorge 40.

Here's (new window) an article on the subject in Spanish.

if it's about the congress men linked to paras then you are correct, and guess what, they are in jail. If this supposed ties had such solid proof Uribe would be in jail in no time, the opposition has been salivating for an opportunity like that and if there was such information the process against Uribe would be unstoppable.

Video Links Uribe to Paramilitaries (new window) - London Financial Times June 19 2007

How does this happened anyway? the demobilization process of paramilitaries led to many of them to confess their links with polititians, and who started the demobilization process in the first place? I'm sure you know it...

And....?

The laptop issue was left for the interpol to manage, that doesn't mean it has been proved "fake" ( I seriously can't believe you quoted a farking blog as your source, jesus...), the police here has plenty of experience dealing with criminal organizations like Farc, it was a mistake to reveal this, but I really doubt they are just making it all up.

Feel free to show me the contents of the lap-top in english or spanish, not just what the Colombian government reported was in there- you know, about how FARC was building a 'dirty bomb', etc. I am happy to hear what Interpol has to say on the subject.

Tell me what part of what came from the "farking blog" was false regarding the lap-top.

No, UribeChavez is no saint, but that is pretty much expected from any polititian, and there's hardly a single country in latinamerica without deep corruption problems, maybe chile, and thats still a maybe, but "Uribe is a paramilatry""Chavez is FARC" is simply put Farc'sColombia and the US's propaganda spread by the usual useful idiots around the world.

Zero sum game- except of course for that video of Uribe, and numerous members of his government in jail regarding their ties to the paramilitary.

And now I feel the need to point out the most absurd lies I've read just in case someone ignorant of the situations starts to give credit to such blogs.

"Luckily for a hemisphere the verge of flames, the President of Ecuador, Raphael Correa, is one of the most level-headed, thoughtful men I've ever encountered.

Correa is now flying from Quito to Brazilia to Caracas to keep the region from blowing sky high. While moving troops to his border - no chief of state can permit foreign tanks on their sovereign soil - Correa also refuses sanctuary to the FARC . Indeed, Ecuador has routed out 47 FARC bases, a better track record than Colombia's own, corrupt military.

For his cool, peaceable handling of the crisis, I will forgive Correa for apologizing for his calling Bush, "a dimwitted President who has done great damage to his country and the world.""

If it wasn't obvious enough, this is pure BS from beginning to end. The one with the inflamatory speech was Correa all the time, his latinamerican tour was to make the whole region condemn Colombia, not to alleviate any crisis, since the region wasn't "blowing sky high", he wanted actually to make such thing happen and to make everyone turn against Colombia. The colombian military has destroyed far more than 47 farcs camps in this long and painful history, and if Ecuador's military was so amazing, it makes no damn sense Farc's top leader was wondering around so happily and relaxed in ecuador's soil that the guy was sleeping in pijamas, where has anyone heard a guerrillero not sleeping uniformed and with his weapon by his side?. The greatest irony of this is that the "peaceable" president was the one moving soldiers to the border, and the one with words like "we should bomb the casa de nariño (colombia's presidential house) because it ...

Quotes (new window) from Correa, Uribe, Chavez at the Rio summit.

Correa might be a little angry about that large militarily superior nation bombing inside Ecuador's borders. He moved troops to the border after Ecuador's sovereignty was threatened. I couldn't find the quote you started, maybe you can link it? By inflammatory speech I assume you mean statements like- "Hey, you are violating our borders? Hey, we don't like that? Hey, we are going to protect ourselves? Hey, stop falsely linking everyone who disagrees with you to FARC, Mr. Uribe?" How dare Correa stir up trouble like that!