Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

Um, sorry. Don't have a turntable anymore. Guess I'll be buying something else.

filth: Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

I like a couple of songs... but I've given him plenty of chances and he's got stuff I just don't like.

Gee. I wonder if I'll notice any hiss, ticks, or pops on the soon-to-be-ripped MP3's.

I've been buying so many vinyl records lately that I've run out of room in my shelves. IF they've been mixed well, they actually do sound better than CDs.

Control_this: Gee. I wonder if I'll notice any hiss, ticks, or pops on the soon-to-be-ripped MP3's.

Doubt it!

... plans are for the set to be released only on vinyl, with a digital download code included in the package.

I think a lot more bands will do the same thing as the CD slowly dies off. Digital is the way of the future... but there's just something about holding it in your hands... that big black disk.

filth
Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

You're not alone. Me too.

/to me he sounds like a BAD combination of The Jam [the pop/punk part], Talking Heads [the new wave part], and Billy Joel [the NY or north easter US accent].

hold on let me rephrase that.

To me,
Elvis Costello =
[in receipe format]

2.5 cups of the Pop/Punk extract of The Jam
2 big tablespoons of the wire-y New Wave extract of the Talking Heads and XTC.
a dash or two of Billy Joel's NY or North Eastern US accent.
a smidgen of Billy Joel's faux-punk tough guy phase [ie. "Glass Houses" era].
A teaspoon of the bland uninteresting songwriting of Steely Dan, as well as of Paul McCartney's 70's solo career.

/ PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT dissing/bashing The Jam, the Talking Heads, or XTC. They were great wonderful bands, I really like them, especially The Talking Heads. The Jam..... sometimes not as much as the others, IMHO.

GurneyHalleck: I've been buying so many vinyl records lately that I've run out of room in my shelves. IF they've been mixed well, they actually do sound better than CDs.

ditto.

Third_Uncle_Eno: filth
Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

You're not alone. Me too.

/to me he sounds like a BAD combination of The Jam [the pop/punk part], Talking Heads [the new wave part], and Billy Joel [the NY or north easter US accent].

Cool. Sometimes I jump to conclusions on acts that I later wind up liking. Took me years to like Dylan, but now I really do. Kind of like vegetables.

Elvis Costello is one of the finest songwriters of his time and place, which was England, 1977-1989 (being generous). All his early albums are truly masterful, but along the way the killer/filler ratio fell appreciably. By the '90s he seemed embarrassed to have been a kickass writer of pop/rock music and started doing stuff like The Juliet Letters with The Brodsky Quartet and that album with Bacharach. Then he married jazzbo Diana Krall.

I will defend strenuously the excellence of the music on My Aim Is True, This Year's Model, Armed Forces, Trust, Get Happy! and Imperial Bedroom. Other than that...well, I still like the guy.

filth: Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

No, it is not OK for you not to like "My Aim Is True," and "This Year's Model." They're great albums on their own, but they're also fairly significant in charting the way in which the attitude and snarl of punk and the hip aloofness of New Wave could be mereged into a readily accessible rock sound. ("Alison" excepted, of course.) You might call it a predecessor of "pop-punk," but they have more credibility than Green Day's entire catalog combined. If you can't put "This Year's Model" on the CD player and not find that you're suddenly driving about 15 mph faster than you were before, there's something wrong.

Then things started to get a little hinky. Elvis started messing around with other sounds and styles, giving us fine albums like "Armed Forces," "Trust," and "Get Happy," but I can see how people can say those albums lack the spit and fire of his first two. Things got even more offbeat with stuff like "Imperial Bedroom," "Almost Blue," and "King of America," which are still great, but are not necessarily going to attract the casual listener.

You are just fine if you don't like anything from "Spike" onward -- those pretty much tend to suck.

Uzzah: filth: Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

No, it is not OK for you not to like "My Aim Is True," and "This Year's Model." They're great albums on their own, but they're also fairly significant in charting the way in which the attitude and snarl of punk and the hip aloofness of New Wave could be mereged into a readily accessible rock sound. ("Alison" excepted, of course.) You might call it a predecessor of "pop-punk," but they have more credibility than Green Day's entire catalog combined. If you can't put "This Year's Model" on the CD player and not find that you're suddenly driving about 15 mph faster than you were before, there's something wrong.

Then things started to get a little hinky. Elvis started messing around with other sounds and styles, giving us fine albums like "Armed Forces," "Trust," and "Get Happy," but I can see how people can say those albums lack the spit and fire of his first two. Things got even more offbeat with stuff like "Imperial Bedroom," "Almost Blue," and "King of America," which are still great, but are not necessarily going to attract the casual listener.

You are just fine if you don't like anything from "Spike" onward -- those pretty much tend to suck.

OK. Downloading the early stuff tonight.

Still won't be played on radio, radio.

To me, This Year's Model is the best thing to come out of that time and place. Remarkable stuff.

A really good starting point, though, is Live At El Mocambo, which features truly kick-ass live versions of material from his first two albums. Costello and the Attractions were a great live band.

I'm with carmody on "anything after Spike" being non-essential.


Third_Uncle_Eno:

To me,
Elvis Costello =
[in receipe format]

2.5 cups of the Pop/Punk extract of The Jam
2 big tablespoons of the wire-y New Wave extract of the Talking Heads and XTC.
a dash or two of Billy Joel's NY or North Eastern US accent.
a smidgen of Billy Joel's faux-punk tough guy phase [ie. "Glass Houses" era].
A teaspoon of the bland uninteresting songwriting of Steely Dan, as well as of Paul McCartney's 70's solo career.

Where the hell did you get that cookbook? Those cookies taste like ass!

Vinyl only?

What a stupid idea.

Trent Reznor just made HOW much by selling digitally?

Elvis is doing it wrong.

mrEdude: Vinyl only?

What a stupid idea.

Trent Reznor just made HOW much by selling digitally?

Elvis is doing it wrong.

Didn't read the article, eh?

filth
Cool. Sometimes I jump to conclusions on acts that I later wind up liking. Took me years to like Dylan, but now I really do. Kind of like vegetables.

Hmmm. interesting. that is true.
Lemme see what bands/artists I can think of that i jumped to conclusions on, and later ended up liking them...
.....
.....
I can't think of any right off the top of my head...
i'll come back later to this later...

filth: Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

He's married to Diana Krall. He must be doing something right.

/saw him with the mingus orchestra in '03
//ferocious

DrBenway
Where the hell did you get that cookbook? Those cookies taste like ass!

LMAO - I know!

Third_Uncle_Eno: hold on let me rephrase that.

To me,
Elvis Costello =
[in receipe format]

2.5 cups of the Pop/Punk extract of The Jam
2 big tablespoons of the wire-y New Wave extract of the Talking Heads and XTC.
a dash or two of Billy Joel's NY or North Eastern US accent.
a smidgen of Billy Joel's faux-punk tough guy phase [ie. "Glass Houses" era].
A teaspoon of the bland uninteresting songwriting of Steely Dan, as well as of Paul McCartney's 70's solo career.

/ PLEASE NOTE: I am NOT dissing/bashing The Jam, the Talking Heads, or XTC. They were great wonderful bands, I really like them, especially The Talking Heads. The Jam..... sometimes not as much as the others, IMHO.

Wrong. There is a lot of Chet Baker and Graham Parker in Costello's style - Elvis is just lot more rough around the edges - and Costello is a better lyricist.

He's the ONLY Elvis to me.... And I have 4 working turntables and LOTS of vinyl. Funny thing about records. They keep going up in value (the good ones). My CDs just sit in a box after they have been ripped. Don't have very many collectible MP3s.

BTW, Record Collectors Are Pretentious Assholes..... Like me.

for a guy who can't play guitar and can't sing too well, he's quite good.
good songwriter? so was Neil Diamond

UZZAH; snarl of punk? hip aloofness of new wave?
A. read too many music reviews in RS
or
B. wannabe critic
either way, you're farked

Get Happy!! is the album I listen to the most these days. By these days I mean since about 1990. Anything he did up to Imperial Bedroom is classic. Sadly, he's lost his entertainment mojo, but Diana Krall has gotten better.

Remember when the labels had Elvis Costello, Graham Parker and Joe Jackson battling each other? Record labels used to be cool.

It's also coming out on digital release simultaneously as well...as does most of the music that attempts the alternate format attention whoring path.

/yay vinyl
/yay elvis costello

I can't believe the name he chose! Lou Costello meant so much to rock and roll.

vstring
Wrong. There is a lot of Chet Baker and Graham Parker in Costello's style

I've never really heard of either of those people.
And I don't really see what's "wrong" [as you say] about stating my opinion on an artist you obviously like. [ie. the "recipe"]. [albeit a 80% humourous/joking opinion, 20% for realz/truth.]
It's like you stating you just don't like or can't get into King Crimson [a band i like], or something. That doesn't make you "wrong" at all. It's just your judgement or opinion. And, in that made up example, i'd agree with you, cuz some people just don't like progressive rock, and yes, King Crimson can be hard to get into at first [especially the Bruford/Wetton years].

But the main thing is is that I just can't get into Elvis Costello's songs/albums. Does that make me "wrong" in your eyes?
I listened to one of his earlier albums.... either "This Year's Model" or "My Aim is True", i forget which.

btw., i read in this thread something about London or England. Is Elvis C. actually from London or England? If so that's really interesting, cuz i always thought he was American.

I have a turn table but I won't be buying anything by Elvis Costello. I only buy music that doesn't bore me into a coma. I've always considered his music for hipsters that don't want to travel too terribly far from the mainstream. But hey, buy what you like.

Third_Uncle_Eno: btw., i read in this thread something about London or England. Is Elvis C. actually from London or England? If so that's really interesting, cuz i always thought he was American.

Wikipedia says London, but I can change it to something else if you want.

Brown Jenkems
Wikipedia says London, but I can change it to something else if you want.

thanks for the info.
btw, I LOL'D / LMAO.
teeheehee

Third_Uncle_Eno:

I've never really heard of either of those people.
And I don't really see what's "wrong" [as you say] about stating my opinion on an artist you obviously like. [ie. the "recipe"]. [albeit a 80% humourous/joking opinion, 20% for realz/truth.]
It's like you stating you just don't like or can't get into King Crimson [a band i like], or something. That doesn't make you "wrong" at all. It's just your judgement or opinion. And, in that made up example, i'd agree with you, cuz some people just don't like progressive rock, and yes, King Crimson can be hard to get into at first [especially the Bruford/Wetton years].

But the main thing is is that I just can't get into Elvis Costello's songs/albums. Does that make me "wrong" in your eyes?
I listened to one of his earlier albums.... either "This Year's Model" or "My Aim is True", i forget which.

btw., i read in this thread something about London or England. Is Elvis C. actually from London or England? If so that's really interesting, cuz i always thought he was American.


In vstring's defense, I don't think they were saying you were wrong not to like Costello (though, clearly, you are!), I think it was your recipe that they were taking exception with, citing Baker and Parker as missing ingredients. If you thought he was American, you couldn't possibly have listened to him that much.

DrBenway
In vstring's defense, I don't think they were saying you were wrong not to like Costello (though, clearly, you are!), I think it was your recipe that they were taking exception with, citing Baker and Parker as missing ingredients. If you thought he was American, you couldn't possibly have listened to him that much.

OH SHIAT! / OH SNAP!
you're totally right!
[re: what he/they was actually talking about]
*headdesk*

yeah... it was a stupid recipe anyway. blargh.

I suppose the only reason why Baker and Parker were missing is because I haven't heard of them. If i was more a fan of Costello and knew about Baker and Parker and their influences, I most likely would've included them in my stupid recipe.

If you thought he was American, you couldn't possibly have listened to him that much.
OH SNAP! :-P

but srsly.... i apologize to vstring and the others.
my bad.

/hey... "VString and the Others" would make a good band name...hmmmm

GurneyHalleck: I've been buying so many vinyl records lately that I've run out of room in my shelves. IF they've been mixed well, they actually do sound better than CDs.

...and if CDs have been mixed well, they actually do sound better than vinyl.

I can't stand listening to Classical or Jazz on vinyl. It just doesn't have the dynamic range & low noise floor that CDs do.

However....

I think there are two reasons why vinyl is making a comeback. The first one is that since it is analog it softens some of the high frequencies which can be very bright and fatiguing to listen to with most modern solid state amplification. These days music in stereo is given a back seat in favor of multi-channel audio for movies.

The other reason deals with the playback levels on CD. Most modern rock / pop CDs have very exaggerated playback levels so that they will play loudly. While it can be exciting it intoduces a lot of distortion since the format is being pushed to the limit of its dynamic range all the time. It sounds like your amp is clipping when in reality it's the recording itself.

This is currently not a problem with vinyl since the companies that are producing / did produce recordings on vinyl recognize the formats limited dynamic range and restrict it accordingly. If they were as clumsy in this regard as they are with CDs it would still sound awful, with all of vinyls other drawbacks added in as well.

I predict this will happen as modern vinyl becomes more mainstream and acceptable just because music companies like to make what they think will sell rather than what sounds good.

Until the sound engineers shed their bad habits it will never really matter what format you choose. Finding those audio treasures that put the band in your room will become harder and harder.

...

For what it's worth I like to match up digital sources with tube amplification, like my Onix SP-3 that I love so much.

I get to keep the dynamic range that CDs can provide while the tubes give it more of an analog feel. It's the best of both worlds for me, especially with Jazz.

A brief and totally random sampling of Elvis clips culled from YouTube:

"Lipstick Vogue" (live) from This Year's Model. Saw a live in Memphis DVD recorded 3 or 4 years ago and he still plays that "Elvis Costello" Jazzmaster (that he plays a Jazzmaster is just one more reason to love him IMO). Seeing & hearing that clip also reinforces my wish to have a Vox organ again.

"Man Out Of Time" from Imperial Bedroom

"Shot With His Own Gun" from Trust. Steve Nieve at his tasteful best...

Pretty funny video for "This Town" featuring... Beau Bridges?

"Tramp The Dirt Down" -- Elvis not a fan of Maggie Thatcher

Great live version of the old Manfred Mann chestnut "Pretty Flamingo" with Nick Lowe and Difford & Tillbrook (from Squeeze).

Okay, never saw this before: Elvis and Lucinda Williams together doing her song "Changed The Locks"


T_U_E: I broke the V string on my guitar, but the guy at the music store told me I'd have to special order a new one. I'll never shop there again.

bingo the psych-o:

There's a few things that I've had to snag CDs of on account of noise heard on the LP versions. The slightest little pops and such in the quiet bits drives me nuts. On loud stuff that kind of thing isn't such a big deal.

filth: Is it OK if I don't like Elvis Costello? I'm trying to decide whether he sucks or I'm just ignorant. And really, it could be me.

It's okay to not like anyone. Music is subjective.

You are not ignorant and he does not suck. His music just isn't your taste. And that's just fine.

Armed Forces is a masterpiece. If you don't own it, get it.

DrBenway was right, Third_Uncle_Eno. I was just citing missing ingredients. I don't understand your distaste for Elvis, but I don't have a problem with it.

I like almost everything Costello has recorded with a few exceptions. I remember eagerly picking up "King of America" when it was released and hating it - I wouldn't listen to it after the first spin. Now I think it's a masterpiece, one of his best non-Attractions album.

I dig Elvis Costello. I dig vinyl. This is chock fulla win.

By the way, "When I Was Cruel" is a terrific and underrated album.

sonnyboy11: Armed Forces is a masterpiece. If you don't own it, get it.

The first "New Wave" album I ever bought. My friends laughed at me. Hard to believe it was almost 30 years ago.

I hear the videos are being released on Betamax and HD-DVD.

sonnyboy11: Armed Forces is a masterpiece. If you don't own it, get it.


The "Live At Hollywood High" EP (included in the first 10,000 or so copies of the album) features a great version of Accidents Will Happen, just piano and vocal.

Is it just me or does Davey Faragher bear an alarming resemblance to Jack Nance? Seeing him on the Live In Memphis DVD with a hat and crappy sports coat on, I keep thinking he's about to ask Elvis if he's ever been to pussy heaven.

sonnyboy11: Armed Forces is a masterpiece. If you don't own it, get it.

This.

Nothing after "Imperial Bedroom"? You're daft. "Punch the Clock" (except for "TKO", that song is awful) "Blood and Chocolate" and "Mighty Like a Rose" are after that, and those are some of his best songs. MLAR is possibly his best record overall, if you ask me. Mind you, I'm not downplaying the earlier works, but it's easy to give up on Elvis after hearing a record like "Goodbye Cruel World" which is genuinely unlistenable. I think his catalogue is rock-solid, and I feel that his august works are shamefully overlooked.

GibbyTheMole: By the way, "When I Was Cruel" is a terrific and underrated album.

Correct. Artisitically speaking, it's probably his second- or third-best record.

I have mixed emotions about this - on the one hand new Elvis is always welcome, even if I never actually listen to it (North) - but I'm going to see him this summer and I don't want to see a set of new tunes I've never heard. The set list from his most recent go-round with the Imposters was pretty perfect. I'm old and change frightens me.

Anyway - the guy takes chances. He can't keep putting out TYM or Armed Forces over and over again. He hasn't been that guy for 25 years now. When I was Cruel and Brutal Youth were both good "later career" albums and the Delivery Man has some awesome tracks on it (Check out Bedlam if you doubt me). I guess what I'm saying is it's a pretty farking amazing body of work over the last 30 years. He's aging well and continues to be interesting.

BTW, I'm a lifelong fan and I think My Aim Is True is a total snooze aside from three songs.

But anyone who doesn't like him, that's completely understandable. There's a lot of 'respected artists' I don't get at all.

Gangway Fathead:

BTW, I'm a lifelong fan and I think My Aim Is True is a total snooze aside from three songs.


I don't think it's the songs as much as the back-up band used, Clover. By the time This Year's Model was recorded, the Attractions were "his band" and the sound reflected that. Live versions of songs from My Aim Is True hold their own quite well against later material.

It's a pity that Elvis and Bruce Thomas couldn't get along well enough to keep playing together. Davey Faragher is perfectly adequate in the Imposters, but Bruce Thomas kicked major ass. To my thinking, anyway...

Bah; Elvis Costello is a poor man's Joe Jackson.

I like his older material. When he started doing work with schmaltzy musak guys, it pissed me off.