Huh?

It does? You can't agree and disagree on different points with someone at the same time? So, it's all or nothing?

God didn't damn America, Americans did.

Sleeping Monkey: God didn't damn America, Americans did.

well, from the biblical viewpoint...

americans did the sinning, god did the damning. the same way you break the law, the judge sends you to jail.

but of course your sentiment that americans would be the ones to blame is 100% right.

Christians having trouble with paradox? Now THAT'S paradoxical.

FTA: The uproar over Wright's preaching is not because he is wrong, but rather the uncomfortable realization he is right.

Except for the whole "god actually exists" things, this is correct.

Hurricane Katrina, record winters, tornadoes, flu outbreaks...

Maybe ol' Jerry knows something we don't?

mmm... pancake: It does? You can't agree and disagree on different points with someone at the same time? So, it's all or nothing?


This.
I suspect it's because that's what the author would LIKE to be happening.

Also, how would it be a paradox if "he takes seriously the idea of the United States as a Christian nation" but betrays Christian principles while doing so?

If saying "God damn America" is blasphemy, so is singing "God bless America."

Wright's error is to mistakenly identify the source of God's wrath. It isn't white people. God loves white people (indeed, his own Son was white). God is wrath is kindled by the gays and uppity women.

Evangelicals have been "God Damning America" for decades now. Turning our back on Jebus and moving towards a secular society tolerant of gays and liberals has been the cause of natural disasters and terrorist attacks. Yet I've never seen the GOP denounce these folks. Instead they welcome them with open arms.

Also, how would it be a paradox if "he takes seriously the idea of the United States as a Christian nation" but betrays Christian principles while doing so?

Hypocrisy is the Christian way, don'tcha know?

Magruda: Also, how would it be a paradox if "he takes seriously the idea of the United States as a Christian nation" but betrays Christian principles while doing so?

Hypocrisy is the Christian way, don'tcha know?

Pretty much.

It's a sin to kill.
Let's go kill the infidels in the name of god.

sigh.

Fart_Machine: Evangelicals have been "God Damning America" for decades now. Turning our back on Jebus and moving towards a secular society tolerant of gays and liberals has been the cause of natural disasters and terrorist attacks. Yet I've never seen the GOP denounce these folks. Instead they welcome them with open arms.



/stolen pic, but I love it.

Jesus of Norfolk: Wright's error is to mistakenly identify the source of God's wrath. It isn't white people. God loves white people (indeed, his own Son was white). God is wrath is kindled by the gays and uppity women.

Don't forget the French.

I just read that one of Obama's professors at Harvard has a friend who got was taped saying religious people are delusional. I was going to vote for Obama until I read that article. How can such a supposedly clean and articulate person be associated with someone who is associated with someone who says such inflammatory things. It really shows the true character of Obama and the fanaticism of his followers for not seeing how truly two-sided he is. I guess I'll just vote for Hillary. It's not like she is close to anyone who has done anything scandalous.

I think it is an absolute tragedy that we are tearing down the only candidate who has inspired Americans to believe that their government can help them reach a better a future. Fark whatever Obama's preacher said, Obama reminded me of what it means to take pride in America.

Instead we have chosen to concentrate power in the hands of a small number of people who cynicism for the intelligence of the American people is only matched by their success at exploiting those same people.

We need a change from the Republicans, a change from the Bushes, and a change from the Clinton's for so many reasons. Instead we will have more of the same for the same reasons.

Sad.

youngandstupid: I just read that one of Obama's professors at Harvard has a friend who got was taped saying religious people are delusional. I was going to vote for Obama until I read that article.

I just heard he uses the same Jerry curl formula as OJ. Now we have proof he approves of the murder of white women. You just can't trust these darkies.

NuttierThanEver: Jesus of Norfolk: Wright's error is to mistakenly identify the source of God's wrath. It isn't white people. God loves white people (indeed, his own Son was white). God is wrath is kindled by the gays and uppity women.

Don't forget the French.

Yes, you're right. God damn the French.

youngandstupid: It's not like she is close to anyone who has done anything scandalous.

Boy. You almost had me.

*adjusts sarcasm meter*

if more civilians died by our atomic bombs than died in 9-11, then our actions are worse. A human life counts the same no matter what nationality it is. This is not to trivialize how horrible either incident was.

Insurance_EE_guy: youngandstupid: It's not like she is close to anyone who has done anything scandalous.

Boy. You almost had me.

*adjusts sarcasm meter*

Me too. Well done, Y&S!

I'm not ashamed to agree and say that I was DEEPLY moved by his speech.

I have lost faith in humanity, society, politics...everything. I intend on staying an athiest as I have been my whole life, but I don't believe in anything anymore.


and obama turned on a nightlight.

bush hasn't had questionable relationships with questionable people at all, so......

if more civilians died by our atomic bombs than died in 9-11, then our actions are worse.

You forget, these people read thing like the assault on Jerico for justification. Just be glad they are not stoning gays.

Fart_Machine: Evangelicals have been "God Damning America" for decades now. Turning our back on Jebus and moving towards a secular society tolerant of gays and liberals has been the cause of natural disasters and terrorist attacks. Yet I've never seen the GOP denounce these folks. Instead they welcome them with open arms.

What's even more frightening--I agree 100 percent with you, by the way--is that on the very, very, very rare occasion that someone in the media actually brings this up, it is either glossed over, ignored completely or dismissed as irrelevant.

Was watching Crossfire last night, and they were talking (of course) about the Wright thing. That kinda-sorta-hot Air America woman tried to ask Joe Scarbough where all the outrage over people like Falwell and Robinson was; and Scarbourgh laughed, actually said, "You're changing the subject," and then, "it's not the same thing."

Unfreakingbelievable.

Wright's language was inflammatory, but I believe that if there is a God who is a good guy, he wouldn't be very happy with us.

Doublespeak: Magruda: Also, how would it be a paradox if "he takes seriously the idea of the United States as a Christian nation" but betrays Christian principles while doing so?

Hypocrisy is the Christian way, don'tcha know?

Pretty much.

It's a sin to kill.
Let's go kill the infidels in the name of god.

sigh.


I think you both misunderstood what I wrote.

How is it hypocritical for Christians to condem him, when they probably feel that he's pretty clearly violated Christian principles?

mongbiohazard: How is it hypocritical for Christians to condem him, when they probably feel that he's pretty clearly violated Christian principles?

Just off the top of my head and keep in mind this is conjecture but, because they do the same thing?

Magruda: mongbiohazard: How is it hypocritical for Christians to condem him, when they probably feel that he's pretty clearly violated Christian principles?

Just off the top of my head and keep in mind this is conjecture but, because they do the same thing?

And have been for decades.

And have been for decades as long as religion has been around.

I'm here all week.

Magruda:

And have been for decades as long as religion has been around.

I'm here all week.

Well played, you win this round.

Fart_Machine: Evangelicals have been "God Damning America" for decades now. Turning our back on Jebus and moving towards a secular society tolerant of gays and liberals has been the cause of natural disasters and terrorist attacks. Yet I've never seen the GOP denounce these folks. Instead they welcome them with open arms.

THIS.

I grew up attending Southern Baptist (white) churches, and later on charismatic churches. While I never heard it put in those exact words, the idea of God damning America isn't something new for me to hear from the pulpit. We're turning our backs on God, we're taking prayer out of schools, we're coming under the influence of the Gay Agenda, and consequently the country is going to hell. I really don't see what the big deal is with this.

Sad how nobody seems to recall the "Value Voters Summit" last September, attended by seven of the Republican candidates, none of whom seemed to get their panties in a twist when the choir opened the show with this charming little ditty:

Why should God bless America?
She's forgotten he exists
And has turned her back
On everything that made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sin and heal our land

The courts ruled prayer out of our schools
In June of '62
Told the children "you are your own God now
So you can make the rules"
O say can you see what that choice
Has cost us to this day
America, one nation under God, has gone astray

Why should God bless America?
Shes's forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land

In '73 the Courts said we
Could take the unborn lives
The choice is yours don't worry now
It's not a wrong, it's your right

But just because they made it law
Does not change God's command
The most that we can hope for is
God's mercy on our land

Why should God bless America?
She's forgotten he exists
And has turned her back on everything
That made her what she is

Why should God stand beside her
Through the night with the light from his hand?
God have mercy on America
Forgive her sins and heal our land

---

Seems a bit whiny, actually, but it also seems to presume that god has turned against us.

AmazingRuss: Christians having trouble with paradox? Now THAT'S paradoxical.

Truly. But, I sure didn't learn about paradoxes, myself, from my fundie parents and community - nope. I learned about those in logic...and public relations...and political science.

In God, there are no paradoxeseses.

Anyhow, this is the one where the two sets of fundies (white and black) get to look in the mirror and be surprised that they are so similar.

My very white (and racist) uncle decided to join a black fundie church for awhile (much smaller one than Wright's) and I could never tell if he thought he was spying on them, or whether, somehow, they constitute a kind of ultimate "proof of God's existence" for him.

Or whether he dimly repented of his own racism and thought them to be a cure (this seems less likely, given the Tolstoi version of the tale).

At least he didn't say "God damn 'typical white persons'".

Have "those chickens ... [hand flutter, flutter] ... come home ... [flutter, loop, loop] ... to roooost"?

What? where are the hundreds of posts? The impassioned pleas to understand how Obama's relationship with that racist is 'troubling'. . and giving you doubts over his leadership and judgment?

The top ten rules of all time...and a friggin' pastor is stupid enough to break one. Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

10 simple easy rules, but nooooooooooo.................

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: The top ten rules of all time...and a friggin' pastor is stupid enough to break one. Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.

10 simple easy rules, but nooooooooooo.................

1. "God" isn't the Name of the Lord thy God.
2. It wasn't undeniably taken in vain.

Oh, and the pastor is not preaching the word of God. He is playing cutie up on a stage with race filled statements, sexual suggestion and drunk with power. It is his ego, Mr. Bigshot saying all kinds of shiat that says, look at me, I'm talking and I am a big attention whore, I'm powerful.

Jesus didn't teach like this.

yagottabefarkinkiddinme: Jesus didn't teach like this.

Nope. He threw tables, screamed from mountains about woe, talked about turning against friends and family, and equated disciples with evil tempters.

Exactly.

Frank Booth: if more civilians died by our atomic bombs than died in 9-11, then our actions are worse. A human life counts the same no matter what nationality it is. This is not to trivialize how horrible either incident was.

This isn't quite accurate. In the past, there were fewer humans alive. Because there were fewer humans alive, each of those living in the past had more impact on their future - both in actions such as inventions or scientific breakthroughs and reproductive potential. Since each past human life had more impact on the present, those lives would be more valuable than the lives of those living now. Therefore, the lives of those living in the past are more valuable than those alive today.

This would hold true for every instance where the population is smaller in the past than the present; an inverse relationship of value and population size.