Here we go..the poor oppressed black church. All rise up!!

/I didn't submit this

Why does anyone care about this guy? I mean other than Gary.

Yes, because to smitty, "misrepresented" is the same thing as "oppressed".

GaryPDX: Here we go..the poor oppressed black church. All rise up!!

/I didn't submit this

Well its a good thing you didn't submit it. First...the person who is protesting ISN'T Wright. Its the current president of the entire church

Claiming that Wright's 36 years as pastor of the church - the largest United Church of Christ congregation, with 8,000 members - is being demeaned, Rev. John H. Thomas, UCC general minister and president, said, "It saddens me to see news stories reporting such a caricature of a congregation that has been such a blessing to the UCC's Wider Church mission ... It's time for us to say 'No' to these attacks and declare that we will not allow anyone to undermine or destroy the ministries of any of our congregations in order to serve their own narrow political or ideological ends."

Basically the church is protesting that whatever good works this church stand for is being ruined by a radical preacher who's the product of his time. The guy is a loudmouth radical who loves punching buttons. Unfortunately his inflammatory comments are not serving his flock well. They should have had a talk with him a long wile ago.

Either way, Obama has rejected the mans stances firmly. Most people don't care about what Obama pastor said. As long as Obama rejects the guys hate words, and continue doing the good work he has been doing, I got no problem with it.

Darth_Lukecash: Basically the church is protesting that whatever good works this church stand for is being ruined by a radical preacher who's the product of his time. The guy is a loudmouth radical who loves punching buttons. Unfortunately his inflammatory comments are not serving his flock well. They should have had a talk with him a long wile ago.

his words might have served his flock very well. taking the sermon out of cultural context and out of the immediate context of the time and place makes it seem shocking.

but what if it's just what the community needed? what if they were wallowing in complacency (which isn't too difficult to imagine in the ghettos of inner-city chicago), and wright was firing them up to make their world a better place?

just like a drill sergeant yelling at his recruits isn't actually trying to break them down, but rather build them up, the tone and content of a message relies on several contexts. i'd think it's safe to say that a fox news show full of rich white men was not the context for which it was intended.

"It's time for us to say 'No' to these attacks and declare that we will not allow anyone to undermine or destroy the ministries of any of our congregations in order to serve their own narrow political or ideological ends."

I hear $cientology has some Black Ops experts they could use.

It must be very shocking to many whites to hear that there are some blacks who are bitter about the status quo.

Great. His church is going to turn Obama's campaign racial.

GaryPDX: Here we go..the poor oppressed black church. All rise up!!

/I didn't submit this

I know, just look at the uppity black man quoted in the article:

Ah...yes, damn Rev. John H. Thomas, that black racist bastard.

I still think that most of this story is much ado about nothing. Dude was using a rhetorical style common in the black church, and it needs to be taken in that context.

/is a conservative
//Wright didn't say much that I disagreed with

Is it just me, or do so many of the "Obama's pastor is racist" posts and comments on the news sound more like they are saying "How dare black people complain about things in this country?" I mean if you strip what the guy said of the obvious emotional aspect of a sermon, he's basically said blacks have had it hard, people still aren't on really equal footing in America, and America has done some dumb shiat that has come back to bite us on the ass. The America created AIDS thing was a bit out there, but for the most part, I fail to see what everyone is getting so bent out of shape about.

When is Fox news going to cover all the gay bashing that goes on in Southern Baptist Churches? Or all of the Fundamentalist nutters who want to outlaw divorce and adultery? Or how about McCain supporters like John Hagee who bashes Catholics or Pastor Rod Parsley who wants to wage a holy war on all Muslims and says Planned Parenthood equates with the Nazis?

I like how Fark is PROBAMA

EwoksSuck: When is Fox news going to cover all the gay bashing that goes on in Southern Baptist Churches? Or all of the Fundamentalist nutters who want to outlaw divorce and adultery? Or how about McCain supporters like John Hagee who bashes Catholics or Pastor Rod Parsley who wants to wage a holy war on all Muslims and says Planned Parenthood equates with the Nazis?

And while we're at it, we should bring up Bob Jones' close ties with Ian Paisley (new window), who's quite the rascal on the protestant side in the Northern Ireland mess.

rynthetyn: EwoksSuck: When is Fox news going to cover all the gay bashing that goes on in Southern Baptist Churches? Or all of the Fundamentalist nutters who want to outlaw divorce and adultery? Or how about McCain supporters like John Hagee who bashes Catholics or Pastor Rod Parsley who wants to wage a holy war on all Muslims and says Planned Parenthood equates with the Nazis?

And while we're at it, we should bring up Bob Jones' close ties with Ian Paisley (new window), who's quite the rascal on the protestant side in the Northern Ireland mess.

Rascal is a pretty generous term for a man of the cloth who incites violence.

Stated (and ignored) in an earlier thread, so here goes:

Don't underestimate the farsightedness of the Hil-dog Hate Machine.

Everybody called the "ZOMG! Obama's a Muslim" hysteria an underhanded mistake, but in light of recent events, I'm starting to think it was a well-played gambit. Reason being: Obama's response was "I'm not a muslim, I've been going to this CHRISTIAN church for 15 years!" Then, the "God Damn America" rantings of his pastor become public, and there's no way for him to backpedal out of that one.

This latest Clinton delegate ploy is just one part of a Fischeresque combination play - b'lee dat.

Empanda
Is it just me, or do so many of the "Obama's pastor is racist" posts and comments on the news sound more like they are saying "How dare black people complain about things in this country?" I mean if you strip what the guy said of the obvious emotional aspect of a sermon, he's basically said blacks have had it hard, people still aren't on really equal footing in America, and America has done some dumb shiat that has come back to bite us on the ass. The America created AIDS thing was a bit out there, but for the most part, I fail to see what everyone is getting so bent out of shape about.

Stop trying to think this thing through. You should emote the way the media tells you to emote God dammit!

odinsposse: Stop trying to think this thing through. You should emote the way the media tells you to emote God dammit!

You're probably right. Every time I start thinking for myself I just wind up pissing people off.

Empanda: Is it just me, or do so many of the "Obama's pastor is racist" posts and comments on the news sound more like they are saying "How dare black people complain about things in this country?"

Well, I hate to be my dad here ... but if you visit the church's website, and read their "Afrika First!" stance .. well ...

Tell ya what. If anybody holding that stance wants to renounce their U.S. citizenship (which they were, after all "forced into"), and go back ... I'll pay the airfare for themselves and three kin... business class.

Just trying to do my part for the "oppressed."
But they've gotta renounce their citizenship first.

Brett Favre: I like how Fark is PROBAMA

a lot of us are probama, a lot of us are just antistupid, and most of the attacks on obama are pretty freaking stupid.

/i'm both

shift_DAWG: Empanda: Is it just me, or do so many of the "Obama's pastor is racist" posts and comments on the news sound more like they are saying "How dare black people complain about things in this country?"

Well, I hate to be my dad here ... but if you visit the church's website, and read their "Afrika First!" stance .. well ...

Tell ya what. If anybody holding that stance wants to renounce their U.S. citizenship (which they were, after all "forced into"), and go back ... I'll pay the airfare for themselves and three kin... business class.

Just trying to do my part for the "oppressed."
But they've gotta renounce their citizenship first.

I did as you suggested and went to the website. I read about the African ministry, and see nothing upsetting about it. Perhaps you saw a page I could not find. If you would be so kind to provide a direct link, maybe I could better understand the point you are trying to make.

shift_DAWG: Well, I hate to be my dad here ... but if you visit the church's website, and read their "Afrika First!" stance .. well ...

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.

Well, what?

Remove all Republicans: Empanda: ... for the most part, I fail to see what everyone is getting so bent out of shape about.

Everyone hates the idea that a possible President sees flaws in this country. Obama's been vague about it, and he's basically gotten a pass. Hillary is blatent and people rip on her all day. It's just more anti-patriotism accusations.

I didn't even think to look at it that way. The idea that a president should think everything about America is right and good just seems absurd to me. I've never bought into the idea that if you criticize something about America that you don't love America. I guess that's why I didn't think to look at it like that. Thanks for the different perspective.

Profanity in the pulpit. Really?

rynthetyn: I still think that most of this story is much ado about nothing. Dude was using a rhetorical style common in the black church, and it needs to be taken in that context.

/is a conservative
//Wright didn't say much that I disagreed with

I'd like the see the full context of "U.S. created the AIDS virus to kill African Americans", to see how this fits in Jesus' message of love and peace.

Rovian: Profanity in the pulpit. Really?

And taking God's name in vain.

empanda, Donald_McRonald

My bad, I thought I was having a discussion with rational people.

My grandfather was denied U.S. citizenship (in the 40's!) for stating (on his citizenship request forms) that he held, essentially, a "non-negotiable commitment to" the country from which he emigrated. I kind of figured that was still part of the package for being an American. Again, I'm not the "love it or leave it" type ... but I kind of figured ("Gaaawd DAMN America!" quotes notwithstanding) that it was patently clear that the quoted text from the website in question was fairly obviously, even to the casual observer, not particularly the type of sermon to which I'd be comfortable with my next president amen-ing. What with that whole oath of office and all.

BTW, I am much darker-skinned than the pastor in question.

atlanta_ufo: And taking God's name in vain.

Stay on message

Remove all Republicans: You're new here, aren't you?

Heh. People who were freshmen in high school when I started Farking are wrapping up their Masters' degrees now.

I'm still on Fark, living on microwave burritos.

shift_DAWG: empanda, Donald_McRonald

My bad, I thought I was having a discussion with rational people.

My grandfather was denied U.S. citizenship (in the 40's!) for stating (on his citizenship request forms) that he held, essentially, a "non-negotiable commitment to" the country from which he emigrated. I kind of figured that was still part of the package for being an American. Again, I'm not the "love it or leave it" type ... but I kind of figured ("Gaaawd DAMN America!" quotes notwithstanding) that it was patently clear that the quoted text from the website in question was fairly obviously, even to the casual observer, not particularly the type of sermon to which I'd be comfortable with my next president amen-ing. What with that whole oath of office and all.

BTW, I am much darker-skinned than the pastor in question.

Commitment to doesn't mean co-citizenship. If a politician said they had a non-negotiable commitment to labor rights, would that worry you? You may not agree with it policially, but worry?

DamnYankees: If a politician said they had a non-negotiable commitment to labor rights, would that worry you? You may not agree with it policially, but worry?

Oh, right. Because economo-political concepts (such as labor rights) are the same as geo-political strata. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Where are you summering this year? I'm taking my family on holiday to "market equitable interest rates;" and on the way back, we're going to visit my sister-in-law in "livable minimum wage."

/MORAN

The AIDS thing is kind of crazy (but then again I used to think the CIA being involved in drug smuggling was crazy), but the rest of it? Makes a lot of sense to me. And I'm white. He didn't take god's name in vain either, he said "God damn America,' meaning, literally, god should damn America. Which, given the context of his statement (the mistreatment of blacks by the white majority) it was a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

shift_DAWG: DamnYankees: If a politician said they had a non-negotiable commitment to labor rights, would that worry you? You may not agree with it policially, but worry?

Oh, right. Because economo-political concepts (such as labor rights) are the same as geo-political strata. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Where are you summering this year? I'm taking my family on holiday to "market equitable interest rates;" and on the way back, we're going to visit my sister-in-law in "livable minimum wage."

/MORAN

How does this matter? I would think if you asked any presidential candidates, they would say we had non-negotiable committments to England and Israel and a bunch of other places.

Also, do you have any proof Obama has this stance? Or is this more guilty by association?

Much as it pains me to defend this douche, "turn the other cheek" is not a literal instruction. My proof of this? Jesus did not take his own advice (new window). When Jesus was slapped during his trial, he did NOT turn his other cheek - he took the guy to task for slapping him without cause. "Turn the other cheek" is an instruction to eschew revenge (as Jesus did). But if someone attacks you (verbally or physically) unfairly, you have a right to call them on it.

shift_DAWG: My grandfather was denied U.S. citizenship (in the 40's!) for stating (on his citizenship request forms) that he held, essentially, a "non-negotiable commitment to" the country from which he emigrated.

Psst...none of those congregation members are immigrants.

I don't see what's wrong with a majority black congregation trying to reconnect with its African roots. Should a Greek orthodox church break all ties with Greece?

atlanta_ufo: And taking God's name in vain

Those are Old Testament Rules, we go by the New Testament here.

Funny thing is, I'm quoting my uncle's right wing fundie viewpoint. If you all could hear my (white) uncle's view on race, you'd see it very close to Mr Wright's.

The "roots" though, are in Missouri and the American South.

DamnYankees: How does this matter? I would think if you asked any presidential candidates, they would say we had non-negotiable committments to England and Israel and a bunch of other places.

Also, do you have any proof Obama has this stance? Or is this more guilty by association?

1: You are correct. Policito's often do cite their allegiance to nations with which our nation is allied. It's one thing to call out a commitment to a country (one with a single constitution, government, etc.). It is quite another (and overly simplistic) thing entirely to do so to a continent (esp. one with the greatest number of sovereign -- and I might add, unilaterally corrupt -- individual nations.

2: I watched no fewer than three interviews in which Sen. Obama was spoon-fed to opportunity to distance himself from Jeremiah Wright. Each time, he took the opportunity to express his undying man-crush upon his pastor. In fact, he did so much like you're doing so toward the Senator himself now.

shift_DAWG: 1: You are correct. Policito's often do cite their allegiance to nations with which our nation is allied. It's one thing to call out a commitment to a country (one with a single constitution, government, etc.). It is quite another (and overly simplistic) thing entirely to do so to a continent (esp. one with the greatest number of sovereign -- and I might add, unilaterally corrupt -- individual nations.

So if a president said "We have a non-negotiable commitment to our brothers and sisters in Europe", you would find this an unacceptable statement?

shift_DAWG: 2: I watched no fewer than three interviews in which Sen. Obama was spoon-fed to opportunity to distance himself from Jeremiah Wright. Each time, he took the opportunity to express his undying man-crush upon his pastor. In fact, he did so much like you're doing so toward the Senator himself now.

You want Obama to throw a man he has known and respected for 20 years under the bus for political expediency? He has said over and over again he disagrees with him and considers him a bit like the crazy old uncle who spouts nonsense, but he's part of the family.

What's wrong with this?

Donald_McRonald: shift_DAWG: My grandfather was denied U.S. citizenship (in the 40's!) for stating (on his citizenship request forms) that he held, essentially, a "non-negotiable commitment to" the country from which he emigrated.

Psst...none of those congregation members are immigrants.

That is precisely my point. So what's with the allegiance to their "homeland?"

I don't see what's wrong with a majority black congregation trying to reconnect with its African roots. Should a Greek orthodox church break all ties with Greece?

Great example. Ever been to a Greek Orthodox liturgy? They pray for the health of the President of the United States ("Lo-o-o-ord have mercy") at the end. You're not exactly disagreeing with me here.

DamnYankees: So if a president said "We have a non-negotiable commitment to our brothers and sisters in Europe", you would find this an unacceptable statement?

Only if it was a black guy.

rynthetyn: /is a conservative
//Wright didn't say much that I disagreed with


Wait....what?

shift_DAWG: Donald_McRonald: shift_DAWG: My grandfather was denied U.S. citizenship (in the 40's!) for stating (on his citizenship request forms) that he held, essentially, a "non-negotiable commitment to" the country from which he emigrated.

Psst...none of those congregation members are immigrants.

That is precisely my point. So what's with the allegiance to their "homeland?"

I don't see what's wrong with a majority black congregation trying to reconnect with its African roots. Should a Greek orthodox church break all ties with Greece?

Great example. Ever been to a Greek Orthodox liturgy? They pray for the health of the President of the United States ("Lo-o-o-ord have mercy") at the end. You're not exactly disagreeing with me here.

Jewish synogogues pray for the safety of Israel and the Israeli Army. It's a standard part of the prayer book. As far as I know, ever Jewish synogogue does this.

Unacceptable?

shift_DAWG: That is precisely my point. So what's with the allegiance to their "homeland?"

You act like they're swearing allegiance to Robert Mugabe or something. It's more like the members are encouraged to learn about their roots, including visits to Africa. I really don't see the problem with that.

shift_DAWG: empanda, Donald_McRonald

My bad, I thought I was having a discussion with rational people.

My grandfather was denied U.S. citizenship (in the 40's!) for stating (on his citizenship request forms) that he held, essentially, a "non-negotiable commitment to" the country from which he emigrated. I kind of figured that was still part of the package for being an American. Again, I'm not the "love it or leave it" type ... but I kind of figured ("Gaaawd DAMN America!" quotes notwithstanding) that it was patently clear that the quoted text from the website in question was fairly obviously, even to the casual observer, not particularly the type of sermon to which I'd be comfortable with my next president amen-ing. What with that whole oath of office and all.

BTW, I am much darker-skinned than the pastor in question.

I'm a white, female, atheist who's family has been in this country for a really long time. That stuff doesn't have much to do with my support of Obama, nor my confusion about what specifically you found so objectionable about his church's website. As best as I could tell from my reading, the church is committed to improving conditions in Africa, educating their members about their ethnic heritage, and generally educating the public on the issues involved. What I didn't see was anything indicating that they think Africa is somehow perfect, or that they think Africa should be our only priority. A quick list of their various ministries shows that they are also involved in many other issues.

RemyDuron

The AIDS thing is kind of crazy (but then again I used to think the CIA being involved in drug smuggling was crazy), but the rest of it? Makes a lot of sense to me. And I'm white. He didn't take god's name in vain either,

The AIDS thing is certifiably crazy.

DamnYankees: Unacceptable?

What's unacceptable is your blatant attempts to steer the focus away from the point, and my belief that I could deign to hold a logical debate with the blind-liberal likes of you. But this is what your type does ... throw out hypotheticals, non-sequitirs, and just generally talk about everything except the actual issue.

Fortunately, we have several more months of your candidate to pull such song and softshoe before a real election rolls along.

Empanda: I'm a white, female, atheist who's family has been in this country for a really long time. That stuff doesn't have much to do with my support of Obama

I wouldn't think so. For that, I'd guess daddy issues with a side of self-loathing.


nor my confusion about what specifically you found so objectionable about his church's website. As best as I could tell from my reading, the church is committed to improving conditions in Africa, educating their members about their ethnic heritage, and generally educating the public on the issues involved. What I didn't see was anything indicating that they think Africa is somehow perfect, or that they think Africa should be our only priority. A quick list of their various ministries shows that they are also involved in many other issues.

Why, then, the KKK is just celebrating their rich Euro-American heritage, right? They're committed to improving conditions in America, and educating their members on their ethnic heritage?

Empanda: I'm a white, female, atheist who's family has been in this country for a really long time. That stuff doesn't have much to do with my support of Obama

shift_DAWG:I wouldn't think so. For that, I'd guess daddy issues with a side of self-loathing.

Daddy issues? Self loathing? You make some pretty interesting leaps there for someone who was accusing other people of not being logical. I get along fine with my father, and I like myself just fine. So I would say it's safe to move on to actual issues at hand rather than trying to make this about me.

Empanda: nor my confusion about what specifically you found so objectionable about his church's website. As best as I could tell from my reading, the church is committed to improving conditions in Africa, educating their members about their ethnic heritage, and generally educating the public on the issues involved. What I didn't see was anything indicating that they think Africa is somehow perfect, or that they think Africa should be our only priority. A quick list of their various ministries shows that they are also involved in many other issues.

shift_DAWG: Why, then, the KKK is just celebrating their rich Euro-American heritage, right? They're committed to improving conditions in America, and educating their members on their ethnic heritage?

I didn't see anything on that website suggesting white people are genetically inferior, or that black people should physically attack white people. Comparing the two is just absurd. What they are doing is more akin to someone with Scottish heritage wearing a kilt, visiting Scotland, educating themselves in Scottish history, and taking an interest in current Scottish events.

This entire story could be summed up as "Holy shiat! Who would have thought that pastors say inflammatory things?"

The only reason it's a story is because Obama's pastor is black, and his inflammatory statements were over racial issues. If Obama was a white fundamentalist, he could have a pastor who hates gays, atheists, feminists, the media, and intellectuals, and no one would bat an eye.