More likely a coincidence than a conspiracy.

One of the three is Eliseo Roques-Arroyo, a Clinton White House Consultant on...wait for it....

Presidential Travel and Advance????

OMFG!!!!

This will make TRAVELGATE look like a parking violation!

chuck4455: One of the three is Eliseo Roques-Arroyo, a Clinton White House Consultant on...wait for it....

Presidential Travel and Advance????

OMFG!!!!

This will make TRAVELGATE look like a parking violation!

zomg it was bill's travel agent.

lesson for today: you are not entirely defined by your prior associations. even if you knew bill clinton.

Okay, could some kind Farker explain to a poor Brit just what this is all about and what caused the problem in the first place?

Well, I appreciate that I learn this with enough time to move to Denver and open up "Raiden's Torches 'n Pitchforks"

I would think their having worked around Hillary would be an advantage for Obama. How many of Bill's supporters have backed Obama now?

It is yet another sign, as if one were needed, that the American educational system is in decline, when people are complaining that the Democratic Party is supposed to be democratic. Political parties are not subject to Constitutional law. They are private enterprises, allowed to do just about anything they want. Except, of course, to smoke in public places.

zz9: Okay, could some kind Farker explain to a poor Brit just what this is all about and what caused the problem in the first place?

Our primaries and caucuses, which decide our nominee, have historically been in (what seems random) order of Iowa, New Hampshire, and then the rest strung out over the course of months. Of course, those first states have a bigger impact on who the nominee will be.

Florida and Michigan decided to simply schedule their primaries before Iowa and NH and South Carolina (I don't know the dates precisely, but I think before February 5th). The DNC, and the candidates, since they've expended all this energy on the first few primaries, don't care for being upstaged out of the blue by these states, no matter how unfair this order of states seemingly is. So the DNC, who has control of how many and in what manner the delegates are seated, stripped the delegates.

The ironic thing being that if they kept their usual order, they would have already voted and been quite influential, instead of the zilch they've got.

zz9: Okay, could some kind Farker explain to a poor Brit just what this is all about and what caused the problem in the first place?

Florida and Michigan: We're moving up our primaries so that we become more influential.

National Democratic Committee: WTF? Well, Now Florida and Michigan don't count. All you Dem presidential candidates please don't campaign there and withdraw your names from the ballot.

Obama: Okay.

Clinton: Er . . .

Florida and Michigan: Well, screw you too, DNC.

Clinton wins Michigan and Florida, which everyone agrees count for squat, zilch, zero, nada.

Obama: Incidentally, I win almost 2x the states that you do, Clinton. How do you like them apples? Not so inevitable now, are you?

Clinton: Uh . . . I think we should count Michigan and Florida.

DNC: Sure, if they get to re-vote so that Obama gets a chance this time.

Clinton: I don't like that idea. Can't we just seat them as is, so that I get a slew of delegates from a vote that was completely biased against Obama?

DNC: Okay, we'll let this group of people decide.

Group of people happens to be composed entirely of people that worked for Clinton's husband.

Submitter: Huh, I bet that would make a good headline.

It's actually not entirely Clintonites. Only the three people leading the thing. It's like a 300 person committee (Heaven help them all for agreeing to sit on a 300 person committee).

The former Rev. Wright had a nice sermon prepared for this turn of events ... just another "G** D*** M***** F****** white conspiracy to disenfranchise, rape, and kill Attractive and Successful African Americans" that was until he recently retired ...

/Obama is finished folks. Seat the delegates and give Hillary a shot.

IrishSamurai9: /Obama is finished folks. Seat the delegates and give Hillary a shot.

Heh.

/what you're smoking
//some
///can I have

So, what, she'll lose by 135 pledged delegates instead of 150?

*yawn*

oldebayer: It is yet another sign, as if one were needed, that the American educational system is in decline, when people are complaining that the Democratic Party is supposed to be democratic. Political parties are not subject to Constitutional law. They are private enterprises, allowed to do just about anything they want. Except, of course, to smoke in public places.

That's funny. Thanks.

/lights up on the back porch
//bite it, smoke nazis

Scary Clinton pic time:

SphericalTime: zz9: Okay, could some kind Farker explain to a poor Brit just what this is all about and what caused the problem in the first place?

Florida and Michigan: We're moving up our primaries so that we become more influential.

National Democratic Committee: No, you aren't. Get back in line.

Florida and Michigan: You aren't our mother. *moves primaries up*

National Democratic Committee: WTF? Well, Now Florida and Michigan don't count. All you Dem presidential candidates please don't campaign there and withdraw your names from the ballot.

Obama: Okay.

Clinton: Er . . .

Florida and Michigan: Well, screw you too, DNC.

Clinton wins Michigan and Florida, which everyone agrees count for squat, zilch, zero, nada.

Obama: Incidentally, I win almost 2x the states that you do, Clinton. How do you like them apples? Not so inevitable now, are you?

Clinton: Uh . . . I think we should count Michigan and Florida.

DNC: Sure, if they get to re-vote so that Obama gets a chance this time.

Clinton: I don't like that idea. Can't we just seat them as is, so that I get a slew of delegates from a vote that was completely biased against Obama?

DNC: Okay, we'll let this group of people decide.

Group of people happens to be composed entirely of people that worked for Clinton's husband.

Submitter: Huh, I bet that would make a good headline.

FTFY.

Fark-the-Fnord: Scary Clinton pic time:

Now we know why she always wears pant suits.

/Making fun of candidates' appearance is fun
//Obama's ears stick out
//McCain has walnut cheeks

You know who else worked for the Clinton campaign? Everybody.

Fark-the-Fnord: Scary Clinton pic time:

The phrase "thunder thighs" comes to mind.

Hillary is a slimy, arrogant biatch w/a sense of entitlement. God, I don't want her to win.

SphericalTime, InternetLOL:

Not bad. Also, don't forget that Iowa and New Hampshire primary dates are written into state law.

So if FL and MI had been allowed to move up, then NH would have been around Christmas, and Iowa would've been just after Thanksgiving.

Jesus Christ people, the main reason why Florida moved its primary up was so the populace can also vote on a property tax amendment. Not to become "more influential." The higher-ups decided it would be easier to have one election instead of two within months of each other.

/Floridian here
//Don't know the story for Michigan
///it was on the 29th of Jan.

AR55: Jesus Christ people, the main reason why Florida moved its primary up was so the populace can also vote on a property tax amendment. Not to become "more influential." The higher-ups decided it would be easier to have one election instead of two within months of each other.

/Floridian here
//Don't know the story for Michigan
///it was on the 29th of Jan.

Totally not true. They would have scheduled the property tax amendment for whenever the primary was scheduled. When they voted to move up the primary, the reason that everybody gave was so that they could have more influence. The property tax thing was only in the discussion stage at that point.

/Nice attempt to at misinformation though

Mentat: Clinton fundraisers threatening to withhold donations to the DNC if Florida and Michigan delegates aren't seated

Ug. Too bad the Obama crowd sucks at fund raising.

/pshaw.

Can we just use the [FLORIDA] tag for everything related to this cock-up? It's there for a reason.
Use OBVIOUS, ASININE, etc for Michigan.

Bladel: Ug. Too bad the Obama crowd sucks at fund raising.

I know. It isn't like Obama could take some of the $20 million more than Clinton that he raised last month and offer to cover the DNC's expenses.

Oh, wait . . .

IrishSamurai9: The former Rev. Wright had a nice sermon prepared for this turn of events ... just another "G** D*** M***** F****** white conspiracy to disenfranchise, rape, and kill Attractive and Successful African Americans" that was until he recently retired ...

/Obama is finished folks. Seat the delegates and give Hillary a shot.

Don't blame us for your small penis.

InternetLOL: SphericalTime: zz9: Okay, could some kind Farker explain to a poor Brit just what this is all about and what caused the problem in the first place?

Florida and Michigan: We're moving up our primaries so that we become more influential.

National Democratic Committee: No, you aren't. Get back in line.

Florida and Michigan: You aren't our mother. *moves primaries up*

National Democratic Committee: WTF? Well, Now Florida and Michigan don't count. All you Dem presidential candidates please don't campaign there and withdraw your names from the ballot.

Obama: Okay.

Clinton: Er . . .

Florida and Michigan: Well, screw you too, DNC.

Clinton wins Michigan and Florida, which everyone agrees count for squat, zilch, zero, nada.

Obama: Incidentally, I win almost 2x the states that you do, Clinton. How do you like them apples? Not so inevitable now, are you?

Clinton: Uh . . . I think we should count Michigan and Florida.

DNC: Sure, if they get to re-vote so that Obama gets a chance this time.

Clinton: I don't like that idea. Can't we just seat them as is, so that I get a slew of delegates from a vote that was completely biased against Obama?

DNC: Okay, we'll let this group of people decide.

Group of people happens to be composed entirely of people that worked for Clinton's husband.

Submitter: Huh, I bet that would make a good headline.

FTFY.

But...the DNC IS their mother. Get it?

rynthetyn: Totally not true. They would have scheduled the property tax amendment for whenever the primary was scheduled. When they voted to move up the primary, the reason that everybody gave was so that they could have more influence. The property tax thing was only in the discussion stage at that point.

/Nice attempt to at misinformation though

I'm curious but do you live in Florida and if so where? I'm going by what my Rep said. A large chunk of Florida's economy is in real estate, this state needs tons of reforms in estate and land. Why should we wait to move the amendment over when you can hit two birds with one stone? Besides Florida is already a state of influence with our delegate count for both parties. I'm not buying this whole "more influence" thing until I see some transcripts. Not trying to be an ass, but I don't see it.

AR55: Jesus Christ people, the main reason why Florida moved its primary up was so the populace can also vote on a property tax amendment. Not to become "more influential." The higher-ups decided it would be easier to have one election instead of two within months of each other.

/Floridian here
//Don't know the story for Michigan
///it was on the 29th of Jan.

No, that isn't why. They have had amendments before...and never moved up their primaries. Go with the next excuse, it is a better one.

AR55: rynthetyn: Totally not true. They would have scheduled the property tax amendment for whenever the primary was scheduled. When they voted to move up the primary, the reason that everybody gave was so that they could have more influence. The property tax thing was only in the discussion stage at that point.

/Nice attempt to at misinformation though

I'm curious but do you live in Florida and if so where? I'm going by what my Rep said. A large chunk of Florida's economy is in real estate, this state needs tons of reforms in estate and land. Why should we wait to move the amendment over when you can hit two birds with one stone? Besides Florida is already a state of influence with our delegate count for both parties. I'm not buying this whole "more influence" thing until I see some transcripts. Not trying to be an ass, but I don't see it.

Your rep is a lying sack. If he/she would have said something about Republicans forcing them to move up it would have been somewhat believable (unless you are listening to a Republican).

Sabyen91: AR55: rynthetyn: Totally not true. They would have scheduled the property tax amendment for whenever the primary was scheduled. When they voted to move up the primary, the reason that everybody gave was so that they could have more influence. The property tax thing was only in the discussion stage at that point.

/Nice attempt to at misinformation though

I'm curious but do you live in Florida and if so where? I'm going by what my Rep said. A large chunk of Florida's economy is in real estate, this state needs tons of reforms in estate and land. Why should we wait to move the amendment over when you can hit two birds with one stone? Besides Florida is already a state of influence with our delegate count for both parties. I'm not buying this whole "more influence" thing until I see some transcripts. Not trying to be an ass, but I don't see it.

Your rep is a lying sack. If he/she would have said something about Republicans forcing them to move up it would have been somewhat believable (unless you are listening to a Republican).

What he said. Your rep is trying to go all CYA after screwing up the entire election by voting to move the primary up. The state of Florida does not, and has never scheduled special elections just for ballot initiatives. They slap them on the ballot for already scheduled elections, and they have as long as I can remember.

And AR55, you really think that I'm going to say where exactly in Florida I might happen to live? I'm not that stupid to go around giving out personal information on the interwebs.

zz9: Okay, could some kind Farker explain to a poor Brit just what this is all about and what caused the problem in the first place?

As a Brit living here, allow me:

The Democratic Party set a date that said all but four, maybe 5, states had to vote after February 5th. All the states and interested parties agreed to these rules, including the current Democratic party nominees. Two states, Michigan and Florida, decided to violate this rule despite being warned of what would happen. Since they violated the rules, they lost their delegates and the candidates were banned from campaigning in both places. Because of this, Hillary "won" Florida based on name recognition, and she "won" Michigan because she was the only one on the ballot. No one contests the fact that neither state is worth anything because Hillary still has a shot of winning. Fast forward past 2 months, 25 losses, and the death of Hillary's ambition... leads us to Hillary trying to get the rules she originally agreed to, and had no problem with until recently, tossed out.

Oh, I see you live in Tampa, AR55. Who's your Rep, Rhonda Storms or something?

rynthetyn: And AR55, you really think that I'm going to say where exactly in Florida I might happen to live? I'm not that stupid to go around giving out personal information on the interwebs.

It's just a city comrade. If you are that scared I pray that you don't find out the identity of your post man.

rynthetyn: Oh, I see you live in Tampa, AR55. Who's your Rep, Rhonda Storms or something?

No, it's Ambler.

Sabyen91: Your rep is a lying sack. If he/she would have said something about Republicans forcing them to move up it would have been somewhat believable (unless you are listening to a Republican).

Can you post any transcripts/references instead of going with "the evil republican" excuse? It's pathetic. As I said before I'll be more than happy to change my position if you can cough up some transcripts. But Florida doesn't need any more "influence power" than it already has. The state has 210 delegates for the Dems, pretty influential to me, but if you can provide some evidence I'll jump on the convenient scapegoat of blaming republicans.

On an off topic note, an interesting study to run would be to see the actual number of Florida voters and compare them to that of the election day. It would be neat to see if there is any statistical significance. Maybe a second vote wouldn't matter or maybe it would, math is fun!

oldebayer: It is yet another sign, as if one were needed, that the American educational system is in decline, when people are complaining that the Democratic Party is supposed to be democratic. Political parties are not subject to Constitutional law. They are private enterprises, allowed to do just about anything they want. Except, of course, to smoke in public places.

They're fairly heavily regulated, actually. For instance, states generally tell them what manner or primary it's legal to run within their borders, and they are subject to expenditure limits on individual campaigns.

But yes, overall they're private corporations. Unsure wether they're considered non-profit... probably, since they're continually getting bugged for their tax records.

AR55: Can you post any transcripts/references

Just a few of the many items on this. Republican controlled congress voted and Republican Governor signed it.

here (new window)
here (new window)
here (new window)

Sarasota

AR55: ///it was on the 29th of Jan.

The property tax amendment was so urgent it couldn't wait a week? I doubt that.

They knew exactly what they were doing when they moved the primary ahead of Super Tuesday.

AR55: Why should we wait to move the amendment over when you can hit two birds with one stone?

Ummm maybe so that your primary election DO count?

moralpanic: Ummm maybe so that your primary election DO count?

What I find most hilarious is, if we had waited and followed the rules, our primary would have counted for sooo much more.

Hell, even Guam is getting attention.

Thank you to everyone who answered my question.

Why can't you sill Americans do things the much simpler way us clever Brits do it?

Blair: I'm quitting. You want to take over?
Brown: Uh, okay. Ta.
A few weeks later...
Brown: I'm going to call an election. Wait, I might lose, so I won't.


/Sarcasm.

SphericalTime:
DNC: Sure, if they get to re-vote so that Obama gets a chance this time.


Ummm... Obama was on the ballot on FL. No one campaigned there either. So it was fair.

(Hillary showed up that night to thank florida, but did not campaign there)

seabass242: So it was fair.

Oh yeah, that's fair.

The most famous woman in the world vs. the jr. senator from Illinois. With no campaigning and an agreement by all that the votes wouldn't count.

Totally, totally fair.

So now the only remaining question is: "What will happen when the ClintoNazi's steal the nomination?"

burndtdan: lesson for today: you are not entirely defined by your prior associations. even if you knew bill clinton.

I believe that the keeper of this list would disagree with your assessment. In fact, they would seem to suggest that even never having had any association with Bill Clintion does not disqualify association with Bill Clinton.

The Clintons will stop at nothing to get elected. That's all you need to know about them.

Pootums: AR55: Can you post any transcripts/references

Just a few of the many items on this. Republican controlled congress voted and Republican Governor signed it.

here (new window)
here (new window)
here (new window)

Sarasota

Alright, according to those articles the DNC had at least seven months notice that Florida moved its primary up and they decided 5 months before the primary that Florida's delegates would not count. The choice to move the date back wasn't in a weeks notice, Florida did not fark everyone over by moving the date at the last second. The DNC decided to not count the votes, even if it was a weak early.

I mean a farking weak for Christ's sake! Let's all QQ at Florida some more instead of blaming ourselves for stripping the delegates, I mean scapegoats are fun and it makes Florida look silly.

Whose fault is this? All nominees and parties had plenty of time to make a choice. One week isn't going to fark everyone over. They could of allowed the delegates to count and everyone would of campaigned together. And who knows, maybe the results would of been different, but now thanks to the clusterfark that resulted the party is now causing more harm than good.

Yeah, totally Florida's fault. Damn those Republican's and their methodical schemes! How could they of had the foresight to see this happen within a year's advance!

d'art: It's actually not entirely Clintonites. Only the three people leading the thing. It's like a 300 person committee (Heaven help them all for agreeing to sit on a 300 person committee).

LOL

And they'll be former Democratic Party officials if they decide to allow Hillary's non-binding Florida victory to be binding.