Great, because I give a rat's ass what Europe thinks about American elections.

BigDumbGuy: Great, because I give a rat's ass what Europe thinks about American elections.

i do. they're our allies.

I wouldn't say I don't care what our European allies think, but it's not one of the most important factors.

*Reads headline*

"Ooooo goodie! I wonder if there will be anyone who comes into the thread to say how much they don't care about what Europe thinks!"

*clicks thread*

YAAAAAY

I prefer pie to cake. And?

This JFK shiat's gotta stop... because he's young and has a little charisma?

JFK was before my time, and I'm already in get-off-my-lawn mode. Would Kennedy even be right for this time? Probably not. Anybody wanna play brinkmanship like the Cuban Missile Crisis now? As Bobby Kennedy famously said, "They blinked first.". I'm not sure you'd get that reaction from the current group of world loonies... say, Kim Jong-Il.

I guess I like Kennedy, given his time, and I like Obama. But it's such a stupid comparison that it makes me want to cockpunch someone.

JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.
Obama: Drastic tax increases and voted against Iraq.

Yeah, see the similarities.

JFK: Had MLK's phone tapped.
Obama: black man that probably has his phone tapped.

They do have a connection after all.

I'm European, so let me offer an opinion, Obama seems like a nice enough person, Clinton seems like a lying, cheating, manipulative whore.

However, I accept the possibility that Obama has just got a better press thing going on, and as a politician is equally likely to be a lying, cheating, manipulative whore.

There. I know all you US Farkers were dying for an opinion from someone from Europe. Especially BigDumbGuy, it's ok, you don't have to thank me, just giving you what you want.

radioshack: JFK: Had MLK's phone tapped.
Obama: black man that probably has his phone tapped.

They do have a connection after all.

I believe that was Edgar J. Hoovers doin....


And on top of that, My mother always told me that Kennendy wasn't very popular in the months before his death. People were pissed at him for a number of reasons, and it looked unlikely he would get a second term.

BigDumbGuy: Great, because I give a rat's ass what Europe thinks about American elections.

Come on, I'm sure you care every bit as much as they care about American opinions on their leaders.

/helpful hint to those in foreign countries that like Obama: Remember the Golden Rule. If you'd like us to do the same thing in your elections, feel free to have a go at it. Things like sending letters to Ohio to try to convince them to vote for someone inevitably backfire.

I'd be interested is seeing what they thought of that dipshiat Bush in 2000 just to be on the safe side.

madmann: As Bobby Kennedy famously said, "They blinked first.". I'm not sure you'd get that reaction from the current group of world loonies... say, Kim Jong-Il.

that's just because kim jong-il is physically incapable of blinking. that's why he wears ridiculous sunglasses all the time!

I'm just glad to see that Bush hasn't damaged America's reputation beyond redemption.

i'm watching hannity and colmes to see hannity interview obama (interested to see how that goes), and i just listened to hannity claim that obama is not fit to be president and should step down from the senate like trent lott because of what his pastor said.

having a crazy pastor is apparently now on the same level of scandal as saying, yourself, on television, that homosexual is the same as alcoholism, kleptomania and sex addiction and being directly involved in a bribery scandal.

i live in the craziest farking country ever.

Sadly, I know a lot of people who will hold his pastors comments against him. These are strangely the same people who have no problem with the crazy stuff that Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell said.

burndtdan: i'm watching hannity and colmes to see hannity interview obama (interested to see how that goes), and i just listened to hannity claim that obama is not fit to be president and should step down from the senate like trent lott because of what his pastor said.

having a crazy pastor is apparently now on the same level of scandal as saying, yourself, on television, that homosexual is the same as alcoholism, kleptomania and sex addiction and being directly involved in a bribery scandal.

i live in the craziest farking country ever.

Obama just said he had no idea that his church and pastor said things like that, and if he had known, he would have left. This is going to get very interesting.

/Black Liberation Theology is what that church practices.
//Liberation Theology is a blend of Marxism and Christianity.
///Black Liberation Theology of course addresses Black issues with that creed
////It will be interesting to see how Obama handles this.

Slaxl: However, I accept the possibility that Obama has just got a better press thing going on, and as a politician is equally likely to be a lying, cheating, manipulative whore.

Seriously, it amazes me that anyone in America thinks Obama has a "press thing" going on (I can accept the possibility existing for someone who doesn't live here). Hillary Clinton has been the 2008 Democratic nominee for EIGHT F*CKING YEARS, according to the press.

Dear America, just because Clinton says something, or CNN says something... doesn't mean it is true. And it CERTAINLY doesn't mean, even if it IS true, that it should matter in an election.

JFK : Big goofy teeth
Obama : Big goofy ears

No wonder Europe loves them, they remind them of their royalty.

radioshack: JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.
Obama: Drastic tax increases and voted against Iraq.

Yeah, see the similarities.

When did Obama vote against Iraq?

radioshack: JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.
Obama: Drastic tax increases and voted against Iraq.

Yeah, see the similarities.

What did JFK do besides bone a lot of chicks and have a nice quote? Civil rights was passed by El BJ, taking over Vietnam from the French.

muck4doo: Obama just said he had no idea that his church and pastor said things like that, and if he had known, he would have left.

Nope. He didn't say that at all. He said he would express his disapproval. But don't let bald lies get in the way of mud slinging.

burndtdan: i'm watching hannity and colmes to see hannity interview obama (interested to see how that goes), and i just listened to hannity claim that obama is not fit to be president and should step down from the senate like trent lott because of what his pastor said.

having a crazy pastor is apparently now on the same level of scandal as saying, yourself, on television, that homosexual is the same as alcoholism, kleptomania and sex addiction and being directly involved in a bribery scandal.

i live in the craziest farking country ever.

Don't take it to heart - Hannity just doing his shill work and trying to keep any conservatives from crossing over to Obama - it terrifies them that there are actual conservatives who might vote for him so they will pull out all the stops to paint him as unfit for office. Fox News's main job is to keep any of their viewers from thinking for themselves - they can't afford the attrition. It will just get worse from here.

deltabourne: When did Obama vote against Iraq?

Well, that was Obama sponsoring the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act of 2007" which would have implemented a phased withdrawal in line with the Iraq Study Group recommendations. But, no, he was not in the Senate at the start of the war.

radioshack: JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.
Obama: Drastic tax increases and voted against Iraq.

Yeah, see the similarities.

No no no, Obama spoke out against the war but was not in the Senate to vote on the bill to authorize use of force when it was being considered, then later on he voted to fund the Iraq war, his reasoning (which I agree with not that it matters) being that since our troops are already there we should fund them. This doesn't make his actions less admirable as this was at a time when if you spoke out against the war you were a pinko commie libtard hellbent on destroying our freedoms.
/smarter Farkers, please correct any inaccuracies in my post.

generaltimmy: radioshack: JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.
Obama: Drastic tax increases and voted against Iraq.

Yeah, see the similarities.

What did JFK do besides bone a lot of chicks and have a nice quote? Civil rights was passed by El BJ, taking over Vietnam from the French.>

Nope. JFK made a personal presidential phone call to Coretta King when Martin was in Jail. That action single handily moved all east coast liberals into the Democratic Party (who were Republicans), and made the south solidly Republican.

He actually spent a couple of days mulling the idea. But in the end, he did the right thing, and made the Democratic Party what it is today.

Republicans are still stuck with the consequences of the "southern strategy."

I usually don't give a shiat what other countries think of us US Americans, 'cause it usually seems we're damned if we do, damned if we don't, but right now I think we ought to care a little bit. Bush/Cheney and the rest of their gang have seriously farked up our credibility. Since Hilary and Barack have little real difference in their platforms, going with Barack is the best way to get something like a honeymoon period to begin repairing our rep.

/voted for Bush in 2000
//supported Iraq invasion
///regretz, I haz them

muck4doo:

That's a lot of crap. I'm on his mailing list. He's sttrongly denoucned AND rejected PLUS condemned everything his pastor's said. He more or less explained that said pastor is retiring this year and the new guy's not as nutty, so he's staying with the church. Apparently this guy wasn't like this when Obama met him and he has a lot of history. Pastor whathisname's given two weeks notice so he can say whatever the fark he wants.

Honestly, guy, just wait for Hillary to go on TV and say this crap for you.

radioshack: JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.
Obama: Drastic tax increases and voted against Iraq.

Yeah, see the similarities.

The tax cuts thing isn't fair. Taxes on the top rates were 90% when JFK took over. I think it's fair to say Obama would be against that and would cut them. I also think its fair to say JFK might raise taxes now.

"Cutting taxes" only means something when you know what the tax rates were.

DarnoKonrad: muck4doo: Obama just said he had no idea that his church and pastor said things like that, and if he had known, he would have left.

Nope. He didn't say that at all. He said he would express his disapproval. But don't let bald lies get in the way of mud slinging.

Wrong. Don't call me a liar:

Link

Ya but you would think that he would have gone to a differant church if he didn't like what that pastor said and not have this man be a part of his family's life.

Then again his wife seems to have similar views with this pastor so who knows maybe they get along great behind closed doors.

Yet another reason to vote for Hillary.

europeans will support him because he supports the same anti-American and defeatist views that europe supports.

I'm sure the french would love to have him lead us right down the toilet.

TKPMM5: Ya but you would think that he would have gone to a differant church if he didn't like what that pastor said and not have this man be a part of his family's life.

Then again his wife seems to have similar views with this pastor so who knows maybe they get along great behind closed doors.

Maybe they have really kickass picnics and he just nods his way through sermons while dreaming of homemade potato salad and juicy BBQ ribs.

hillary4real: I'm sure the french would love to have him lead us right down the toilet.

I don't get the anti-France thing. We turned against them because they thought the war was stupid and didn't want to get involved. Now, most Americans would agree with that idea. Shouldn't we be pro-France again?

/France is awesome

While the French are fun to make fun of, I don't know that the actual country of France could really be described as being in the toilet.

radioshack: JFK: Drastic tax cuts and started Viet Nam.

It should be pointed out that in the 1960 debates with Nixon, JFK proposed lowering the top rates to 70%, but closing a lot of loopholes. He argued that it would actually amount to a higher proportion of taxes on the rich, which it did, and be revenue-neutral, which it was.

Falcc: muck4doo:

That's a lot of crap. I'm on his mailing list. He's sttrongly denoucned AND rejected PLUS condemned everything his pastor's said. He more or less explained that said pastor is retiring this year and the new guy's not as nutty, so he's staying with the church. Apparently this guy wasn't like this when Obama met him and he has a lot of history. Pastor whathisname's given two weeks notice so he can say whatever the fark he wants.

Honestly, guy, just wait for Hillary to go on TV and say this crap for you.

Your newsletter probably hasn't been updated yet.

madmann: I prefer pie to cake. And?

This JFK shiat's gotta stop... because he's young and has a little charisma?

JFK was before my time, and I'm already in get-off-my-lawn mode. Would Kennedy even be right for this time? Probably not. Anybody wanna play brinkmanship like the Cuban Missile Crisis now? As Bobby Kennedy famously said, "They blinked first.". I'm not sure you'd get that reaction from the current group of world loonies... say, Kim Jong-Il.

I guess I like Kennedy, given his time, and I like Obama. But it's such a stupid comparison that it makes me want to cockpunch someone.

Kennedy was reading Khrushchev's cards. he knew EXACTLY when the USSR was going to blink. and then he gave them a face-gaining way out.

Why would we want to piss off Europe any further, considering the dire straits we're in with our economy.

/glad I didn't convert my swiss francs just yet, i'm sitting on a treasure trove here!

Forign policy wizard


SPIEGEL: The Democrats have called in the election campaign for a move away from free trade, even discussing a renegotiation of the terms of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).

Szabo: These efforts are directed primarily at Mexico and China. What we are going to see is the issue of protectionism, but it will not be directed at Europe. Indeed, we have a lot in common when it comes to defending ourselves from low-wage countries like China.

NIMBY!

It's funny because it's true.

Obama: Big In Japan (new window)

Dr.Zom: Don't take it to heart - Hannity just doing his shill work and trying to keep any conservatives from crossing over to Obama - it terrifies them that there are actual conservatives who might vote for him so they will pull out all the stops to paint him as unfit for office. Fox News's main job is to keep any of their viewers from thinking for themselves - they can't afford the attrition. It will just get worse from here.

The conservatives who would consider crossing over to vote for Obama (aka, people like me), aren't going to be swayed by Hannity's shilling. In any case, Hannity and that whole segment tonight had the exact opposite effect on my mom from what he was intending--earlier today she emailed me about how she was concerned about the judgement of someone who'd go to a church with a pastor who said those kinds of things, but she came away from watching the show tonight with most of those concerns alleviated.

Empanda: While the French are fun to make fun of, I don't know that the actual country of France could really be described as being in the toilet.

I believe you mean toilette.

FTA: Szabo: The Democrats are committed to withdrawing substantially and they will do that. I don't know how the Europeans will feel about that ...

SPIEGEL: ... because an overhasty retreat in Iraq could lead to a spiral of violence and chaos?

Szabo: Yes, but it's a simple fact that the American public doesn't want this war. It has lost its democratic legitimacy. If the Democrats win the election, they will have to pull out fairly quickly -- otherwise this will become their war, just like Vietnam became Nixon's war. They want to avoid that. The big issue will be: How weak will the US be after Iraq?

SPIEGEL: To what extent have the Americans actually lost power?

Szabo: The US, in many respects, is not what it used to be -- it is no longer a hegemon. And that's where you can see the differences between Clinton and Obama. A lot of Clinton people believe, as Madeleine Albright likes to say, that we are still an indispensable nation. But the US is much weaker than it was before the Iraq war in many ways. Just look at our budget deficit. That will also create a necessity for us to work together with our allies. I think Obama is more likely to do that than Clinton because he is from a different generation.

can has Szabo speaking in US? or on pirate radio

// The world vote may actually be the deciding factor..
many in the US will see Obama as virtually the only way to avoid a nuclear war.
It needs to be said often...

gosh, just wait till the SUN gets to work on this..
hehe

AgentTofu: Obama: Big In Japan (new window)

Alphaville approves.

JFK is probably the most popular politician of the 20th century in Germany (can't speak for all of Europe), but it's all about what he symbolizes, as no one really knows what he did anyway. You know, peace and freedom 'n stuff.

If Obama wins the presidency, Europeans will be disappointed pretty soon, because on the important international issues - say, the Bush doctrine of preemptive war - there's not gonna be this much "change".

A McCain presidency would lead to a more independent definition of the European project and could be better for the EU states in the long term. But certainly nobody wants Americans or Middle Easterners to suffer only for Europe to find its way.

Empanda: While the French are fun to make fun of, I don't know that the actual country of France could really be described as being in the toilet."

DamnYankees:I don't get the anti-France thing. We turned against them because they thought the war was stupid and didn't want to get involved. Now, most Americans would agree with that idea. Shouldn't we be pro-France again?

Ah, I see from your profile that you just graduated from Berkely, so I presume you are youngish.

As a nation, the French are among the most stiff-necked, stuck-up people on earth. And they've been that way for ages. They've never gotten over becoming a second tier nation and have made trouble for US policy at least as much to assert their right to do so as for any actual flaws in that policy (I'm not saying American policy has been flawless, just flaws or a lack of same were often of secondary consideration).

They are every bit as ignorant (in general) of the way America really is as Americans are of (insert country name here) yet think they are not. They give us shiat for our racial issues while stuffing their North African citizens in suburban ghettos (recall the recent riots?). They got all superior over the (admittedly) farked up response to Katrina, forgetting that just a couple of years before, something 5000 people died in France due to a heat wave. We get crap about Enron while they ignore the regular scandals that erupt there, some of which have involved their own presidents.

They gave intelligence info to the Serbs during the Bosnia mess. They have engaged in nasty stuff all over North and Central Africa very much on par with our meddling in Central and South America, except we've dropped the worst of ours since the USSR went toes up -- they are still at it. IIRC, they also had some unpleasant connections to that Rwanda nastiness.

A few years back some North African country (I forget who now) made trouble over an island claimed by Spain. The EU backed Spain -- but France made the EU back off. France ignored an EU travel ban and let Robert Mugabe(Mugabe!!!) come shopping.

And I remain convinced that they opposed the war in Iraq not because they were afraid it would end badly but because they were afraid it would somehow be counter to French interests.

So my friend, there are in fact LOTS of very good reasons to despise the French, most of which boil down to the fact that they think their shiat doesn't stink, despite standing in a pile of it up to their waist.

/wow, that was mouthful. must have been saving it up.

True story: A friend of mine has been teaching English in Thailand for almost 8 years. A week or two ago, he was coming home from work and stopped in a convenience store for beer. The owners were watching the news about the American presidential race and fawning over Obama, rather than "Hil la lee".

In summation, it's not limited to Europe.