Obama really has a strange Swif-boat-proofness.

Wonder how long that will last

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DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Obama really has a strange Swif-boat-proofness.

Wonder how long that will last

I don't think that in reality it says much about him, but if I were him I would distance myself from that pastor STAT.

nekom:

I don't think that in reality it says much about him, but if I were him I would distance myself from that pastor STAT.

I don't think it will make a difference. I believe the LBI has sold too much snake oil, and no one is really listening to it anymore.

.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: I believe the LBI has sold too much snake oil, and no one is really listening to it anymore.

Lesbian Boobs Initiative?

.

miseducated:

Lesbians have boobs now? What'll those Cadillac people think of next?

.

I haven't seen the videos where the guy makes the 9/11 claims, but I would guess he does it in a way that completely undermines what is a legitimate, though highly unpopular, point: US foreign policy since WWII has had unintended consequences, one of which is the rise of radical Islam and an increase anti-American sentiment.

The media analysis I've seen (I'm lookin' at you, Chris Matthews) makes it seem like that argument "blames the victims". It's a little more complicated than that, and that's a very narrow way of looking at it.

I don't know how Obama should address it. America's leaders over the last half century helped create the conditions that fueled the hatred against us. Much of that was done in secret by the CIA, so the average American doesn't even know about it. So the natural reaction is to reject any notion that the US brought this on itself.

Now, before the flames start flying my way:

1) This does not lessen the culpability of the people who planned and carried out the attacks.
2) This does not mean that we, as a nation, should not do everything we can to bring those people to justice.

All it really means is that we should examine our actions more closely in light of the blowback they are likely to cause. Some blowback is unavoidable, but it can and should be minimized.

finally, a respectful, cojent analysis of the situation.

Not that it matters, skinnycatullus, but an excellent post.

I do not feel massive guilt for American foreign policy over the last fity-sixty yars. Live by the gun....

thank you.

At ease, men. I'll be in the area all day.

The newsmedia is yet again trying to stretch this campaign out as long as possible so they don't actually have to go find any current events to report on.

thamike: The newsmedia is yet again trying to stretch this campaign out as long as possible so they don't actually have to go find any current events to report on.

Hopefully that is the case. From the looks of a couple cable news outlets today, the mainstream media is testing the Dean-scream waters with this story.

...just in time for the weekend. Lovely.

In all fairness, if John McCain went to Westboro Baptist, you can believe it would be all over the news.

However, it is funny that this is the best they can come up with.

(Did ya know he blames us for 9/11?)

That's the kind of BS only a Democrat would pull...

Am I right, Jerry? Pat?

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Obama really has a strange Swif-boat-proofness.

Wonder how long that will last

.

Given how much the "liberal" Mainstream Media is having fun tearing into him, not long...

The MSM isn't liberal at all, just corporate. If you buy into the MSM is liberal myth you're right up there with the "vast right-wing conspiracy" people

American Policy does not excuse 9/11. But it makes it as surprising as the sun coming up in the morning.

CNN's feigned innocence while mentioning it ad nauseaum is a true masterpiece of hit and run journalism.

skinnycatullus: I haven't seen the videos where the guy makes the 9/11 claims, but I would guess he does it in a way that completely undermines what is a legitimate, though highly unpopular, point: US foreign policy since WWII has had unintended consequences, one of which is the rise of radical Islam and an increase anti-American sentiment.

The media analysis I've seen (I'm lookin' at you, Chris Matthews) makes it seem like that argument "blames the victims". It's a little more complicated than that, and that's a very narrow way of looking at it.

I don't know how Obama should address it. America's leaders over the last half century helped create the conditions that fueled the hatred against us. Much of that was done in secret by the CIA, so the average American doesn't even know about it. So the natural reaction is to reject any notion that the US brought this on itself.

Now, before the flames start flying my way:

1) This does not lessen the culpability of the people who planned and carried out the attacks.
2) This does not mean that we, as a nation, should not do everything we can to bring those people to justice.

All it really means is that we should examine our actions more closely in light of the blowback they are likely to cause. Some blowback is unavoidable, but it can and should be minimized.


This. Anyone who denies that 9/11 is blowback for our foreign policy is seriously deluding themselves.

I didn't know the Muslim religious leaders where called "pastor".

/I kid, I kid.

now that the rudy is gone how else could the republicans crowbar 9/11 into this election?

skinnycatullus: I haven't seen the videos where the guy makes the 9/11 claims, but I would guess he does it in a way that completely undermines what is a legitimate, though highly unpopular, point: US foreign policy since WWII has had unintended consequences, one of which is the rise of radical Islam and an increase anti-American sentiment.

The media analysis I've seen (I'm lookin' at you, Chris Matthews) makes it seem like that argument "blames the victims". It's a little more complicated than that, and that's a very narrow way of looking at it.

I don't know how Obama should address it. America's leaders over the last half century helped create the conditions that fueled the hatred against us. Much of that was done in secret by the CIA, so the average American doesn't even know about it. So the natural reaction is to reject any notion that the US brought this on itself.

This needs to be brought to the forefront. We need to make clear exactly what the US has done through the CIA and how horribly most of it has backfired or failed. If America had the foreign policy that it presented to the public without all the bullshiat that never gets reported, we wouldn't be where we are today. Not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination, but much better off than we currently are.

schiefaw: I didn't know the Muslim religious leaders where called "pastor".

/I kid, I kid.

Nice!

Edsel: This. Anyone who denies that 9/11 is blowback for our foreign policy is seriously deluding themselves.

Seriously. We kind of DID provoke 9/11. Does anyone think they just randomly picked us, out of all the countries on the other side of the world that they could attack? Why didn't they attack Canada, or Aruba?

Well, whether Obama agrees with this guy or not, or ever agreed with this guy or not, isn't really germane. The unfortunate reality is that many Americans are racist, and this association will get under many people's skin, and the story is 100% toxic for Obama.

I don't think the Republicans are behind flogging this story; they'd have saved it for September or October. This is part of Billary's divide and conquer strategy. It's already working. Look at the results in Mississippi where Obama got 92% of the black vote and Hillary got 70% of the white vote. Billary is trying to marginalize Obama as the "black candidate" who can't pull the white vote and muscle him out of the "sooperdelegates" by doing so.

The US needs a gut check and this is what the preacher is doing.

Which on of these paraphrased statements is wrong:
1.US foreign policy in Afghanistan funded allies of if not directly funded the terrorist that committed the attacks on 9/11.
2.Black people in America still have put up with being called names by some racist whites.
3.Hillary Clinton would have no idea what the average person in South Chicago goes through in a typical month.
4.Most of the upper 1% of income earners outside of entertainment are white.
5.Sixty years ago blacks did not have the same rights as white people in a large portion of this country.

Just because he is an angry black man does not mean that he is not 100% correct.

This morning on Morning Joe they were talking about how hateful and vile his tone was. The truth is that he has said nothing that Joe's buddy Bill Maher has trumpeted many times and somehow Joe does not see the need to stop showing up on Real Time.

b>Gregory F. Stuart: Is it true that this pastor is working for Obama's campaign?

In the early days of the campaign he had a steering committee on how to address the problems of the inner city blacks. The pastor was on that committee.

mediaho: In all fairness, if John McCain went to Westboro Baptist, you can believe it would be all over the news.

However, it is funny that this is the best they can come up with.

DAMN RIGHT!

If any candidate for POTUS had Fred Phelps as a spiritual advisor and had baptised his/her kids, there would be such an uproar!

And then there's this: Obama immediately fired a woman in his campaign for saying Hillary's a monster. Yet, this guy has been in his life for 20 years?
WTF??? It's too damn late for him to be distancing himself!

I would love to see Barack, at a news conference, answering searing questions about Wright, suddenly fall into a Rodney King impersonation:

"Can't... can't we all just get along?"



"Awww, SNAP!!! I HAD your asses there, di'n I?"

canyoneer: Hillary got 70% of the white vote.


I call a bit of bullshiat on this given that something like 24% of Hillary's vote came from Republicans. Surely, some were voting for her and not necessarily against Obama... but that's a small minority.


Anyway, though I don't really give a crap what Obama's pastor has to say, I do see him as a liability. Best to distance himself as much as possible.

Gregory F. Stuart: Is it true that this pastor is working for Obama's campaign?

He's on a 'African American Religious Leadership steering committee' with dozens of other pastors.

Not a paid position, but does work for Obama.

mediaho: In all fairness, if John McCain went to Westboro Baptist, you can believe it would be all over the news.

However, it is funny that this is the best they can come up with.

Oh, come on, now. Westboro Baptist makes Farrakhan look like a rational human being.

canyoneer: Well, whether Obama agrees with this guy or not, or ever agreed with this guy or not, isn't really germane. The unfortunate reality is that many Americans are racist, and this association will get under many people's skin, and the story is 100% toxic for Obama.

You keep thinking that, Sparky. The story is old as dirt already and nobody cares.

I don't think the Republicans are behind flogging this story; they'd have saved it for September or October. This is part of Billary's divide and conquer strategy. It's already working. Look at the results in Mississippi where Obama got 92% of the black vote and Hillary got 70% of the white vote. Billary is trying to marginalize Obama as the "black candidate" who can't pull the white vote and muscle him out of the "sooperdelegates" by doing so.

Yeah, racism in Mississippi is new to this election.



Sheesh!

DaSwankOne: In the early days of the campaign he had a steering committee on how to address the problems of the inner city blacks. The pastor was on that committee.

Judging by the sermons I heard, his answer to the "problems of inner city blacks" is "always blame it on the white guy."

He says white America created AIDS. nice.

Reject AND denounce!

Seriously though, while its ridiculous to just say "America deserved to be attacked because they are evil" the US is far from innocent in the current situation. Like or not we actively funded both Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein knowing full well the kind of men they were. The US rationalized it as being the lesser of two evils in light of the strength of the USSR. Now we are going after them and allying ourselves with people like General Musharraf, Hu Jintao and Vladamir Putin.

Call it "realpolitik" or what will you but the lesser of two evils is still evil and the US must at some point take responsibility and end the cycle of propping up and then overthrowing corrupt regimes for our own ends. Our current tactics in the war on terror have led to more radical extremism, not less. Hopefully President Obama can move away from the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" simplistic approach and take a more nuanced approach to foreign policy.

FeedTheCollapse: canyoneer: Hillary got 70% of the white vote.


I call a bit of bullshiat on this given that something like 24% of Hillary's vote came from Republicans. Surely, some were voting for her and not necessarily against Obama... but that's a small minority.


Anyway, though I don't really give a crap what Obama's pastor has to say, I do see him as a liability. Best to distance himself as much as possible.


You SHOULD care! If Obama's pastor says these hateful things, and Obama didn't shove out the door after 20 years of being a member of this church, then he obviously agrees with most of what he says!
"The government gives black people drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strikes law, and then wants blacks to sing God Bless America? No. We're going to God Damn America."

Now, if YOUR preacher was saying some of these hateful things, would you want YOUR kids to be exposed to it? Would you want your kids to grow up believing the same things this preacher does? Would you even want your kids hearing it?
So, this preacher is perfectly peachy enough having these hateful beliefs drummed into their kids heads every week their whole short lives, but Barak is distancing himself now.

I'm sorry, but to buy this line that "I don't agree with him" after 20 years and so much influence in his & his kids' lives, it's just gullible.

He didn't distance himself when it came to his kids and he obviously didn't mind the idea of them growing up to believe these same things. Only the presidency has caused him to distance himself.

canyoneer: This is part of Billary's divide and conquer strategy. It's already working. Look at the results in Mississippi where Obama got 92% of the black vote and Hillary got 70% of the white vote. Billary is trying to marginalize Obama as the "black candidate" who can't pull the white vote and muscle him out of the "sooperdelegates" by doing so.

Is this why he won a wide majority in Wyoming?

glassa: mediaho: In all fairness, if John McCain went to Westboro Baptist, you can believe it would be all over the news.

However, it is funny that this is the best they can come up with.

DAMN RIGHT!

If any candidate for POTUS had Fred Phelps as a spiritual advisor and had baptised his/her kids, there would be such an uproar!

And then there's this: Obama immediately fired a woman in his campaign for saying Hillary's a monster. Yet, this guy has been in his life for 20 years?
WTF??? It's too damn late for him to be distancing himself!

Do you agree with everything every friend of yours ever says?

Didn't Pat Robertson also say that 9/11 happened because of Americas moral decline?

Or I forgot, he is white, so it was ok for him to do it.

FeedTheCollapse: Anyway, though I don't really give a crap what Obama's pastor has to say, I do see him as a liability. Best to distance himself as much as possible.

True.

canyoneer: Look at the results in Mississippi

not sure if using the deep south as a canary for possible racist voting is accurate, although the analogy is fitting...

another deep south state:

ASHBURN, Georgia (CNN)POSTED: 5:33 p.m. EDT, April 23, 2007 -- Students of Turner County High School started what they hope will become a new tradition: Black and white students attended the prom together for the first time on Saturday.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/23/turner.prom/index.html

get called names by white people? ummmm....grow up and don't let words hurt you?

glassa: You SHOULD care! If Obama's pastor says these hateful things, and Obama didn't shove out the door after 20 years of being a member of this church, then he obviously agrees with most of what he says!

No matter how many exclamation points you use, it's not going to convince me that Obama thinks like this pastor does.

This is a man Obama listened to for 20 years! And Obama's book "Audacity of Hope" was titled after a sermon this guy gave. And, he's been referred to as Obama's mentor, he married the Obama's and baptised their children. Seems like Obama admires the guy a whole lot.

I mean if my pastor had said some of these hateful things from the pulpit, I damn well wouldn't stay there for 20 years if I didn't think it was appropriate!

schiefaw

Naturally, I was referring to the future and the rest of the country beyond Mississippi, since this brouhaha got going after Tuesday. Do you really think racism is confined to the South?

All I'm saying is this pastor fellow is going to rub a lot of people the wrong way, and they'll look at Obama differently because of it. This pastor fellow is now positively radioactive for Obama, and he'd best throw the guy under the bus ASAP. But even in doing that he'll disappoint some in the black community, I reckon. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

That's the Clinton strategy, for sure. The Clintons are smart and ruthless.

glassa: FeedTheCollapse: canyoneer: Hillary got 70% of the white vote.


I call a bit of bullshiat on this given that something like 24% of Hillary's vote came from Republicans. Surely, some were voting for her and not necessarily against Obama... but that's a small minority.


Anyway, though I don't really give a crap what Obama's pastor has to say, I do see him as a liability. Best to distance himself as much as possible.


You SHOULD care! If Obama's pastor says these hateful things, and Obama didn't shove out the door after 20 years of being a member of this church, then he obviously agrees with most of what he says!
"The government gives black people drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strikes law, and then wants blacks to sing God Bless America? No. We're going to God Damn America."

Now, if YOUR preacher was saying some of these hateful things, would you want YOUR kids to be exposed to it? Would you want your kids to grow up believing the same things this preacher does? Would you even want your kids hearing it?
So, this preacher is perfectly peachy enough having these hateful beliefs drummed into their kids heads every week their whole short lives, but Barak is distancing himself now.

I'm sorry, but to buy this line that "I don't agree with him" after 20 years and so much influence in his & his kids' lives, it's just gullible.

He didn't distance himself when it came to his kids and he obviously didn't mind the idea of them growing up to believe these same things. Only the presidency has caused him to distance himself.

So...what do you think of John Hagee?

Sabyen91: glassa: mediaho: In all fairness, if John McCain went to Westboro Baptist, you can believe it would be all over the news.

However, it is funny that this is the best they can come up with.

DAMN RIGHT!

If any candidate for POTUS had Fred Phelps as a spiritual advisor and had baptised his/her kids, there would be such an uproar!

And then there's this: Obama immediately fired a woman in his campaign for saying Hillary's a monster. Yet, this guy has been in his life for 20 years?
WTF??? It's too damn late for him to be distancing himself!

Do you agree with everything every friend of yours ever says?

You don't have casual friends baptise your kids. Only someone very important & impressive in your life.

If similar things were uttered from a white man's church, liberals would be screaming about it.

Jeffrey Zucker, CEO NBC TV, Zionist
Robert Iger, CEO ABC, Zionist
Leslie Moonves, CEO CBS, grandnephew of David Ben Gurion, Zionist
Jonathon Klein, CEO CNN, Zionist
Peter F. Chernin, President and COO FOX, Zionist

hillbillypharmacist: Is this why he won a wide majority in Wyoming?

Wyoming isn't in the United States that Matter.

hillbillypharmacist

His wide majority among all 37 Democrats in Wyoming? You mean the 25 graduate students in Laramie and the 12 other Democrats whose cars broke down outside of Rock Springs that day?

Lando Lincoln: glassa: You SHOULD care! If Obama's pastor says these hateful things, and Obama didn't shove out the door after 20 years of being a member of this church, then he obviously agrees with most of what he says!

No matter how many exclamation points you use, it's not going to convince me that Obama thinks like this pastor does.

He obviously thinks like him enough for Obama not to mind having his kids grow up to believe the same way...at least until now (conveniently with the election).
Bury your head a little more.

Sabyen91: glassa: FeedTheCollapse: canyoneer: Hillary got 70% of the white vote.


I call a bit of bullshiat on this given that something like 24% of Hillary's vote came from Republicans. Surely, some were voting for her and not necessarily against Obama... but that's a small minority.


Anyway, though I don't really give a crap what Obama's pastor has to say, I do see him as a liability. Best to distance himself as much as possible.


You SHOULD care! If Obama's pastor says these hateful things, and Obama didn't shove out the door after 20 years of being a member of this church, then he obviously agrees with most of what he says!
"The government gives black people drugs, builds bigger prisons, passes a three-strikes law, and then wants blacks to sing God Bless America? No. We're going to God Damn America."

Now, if YOUR preacher was saying some of these hateful things, would you want YOUR kids to be exposed to it? Would you want your kids to grow up believing the same things this preacher does? Would you even want your kids hearing it?
So, this preacher is perfectly peachy enough having these hateful beliefs drummed into their kids heads every week their whole short lives, but Barak is distancing himself now.

I'm sorry, but to buy this line that "I don't agree with him" after 20 years and so much influence in his & his kids' lives, it's just gullible.

He didn't distance himself when it came to his kids and he obviously didn't mind the idea of them growing up to believe these same things. Only the presidency has caused him to distance himself.

So...what do you think of John Hagee?

I don't listen to John Hagee.

canyoneer: Naturally, I was referring to the future and the rest of the country beyond Mississippi, since this brouhaha got going after Tuesday.

Issue discussed on Sean Hannity March 20, 2007. (new window)

Not new in the least.