Too late to split the country, the Liberal Bashing Industry beat you to it

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The betting: Florida and Michigan delegates, the DNC, and the Clinton campaign would all - some reluctantly- accept this deal.

If this were true, I could see Obama (albeit reluctantly) going along. It would close the issue, keep him on high ground, and not alienate anybody.

I still think they should sit out, but I would concede resolution and progress as a higher ideal.

I'm sure Obama's camp will be fine with this if this plan is actually offered up, it's benefits him more than anyone else. Unless this changes the 2025 goal mark.

just pick something for god's sake, i want to know if i need to register dem for a vote.

given that the rest of the ideas that have been put forward are all even more terrible, this is the best one, and i think all parties involved will be all right with it.

/florida voter
//still wish they wouldnt count our votes

It's the Fairness Doctrine, just applied to the electoral process.

After proving in successive elections that they are completely unable to handle their right of voting, I say we simply bar Florida from participating in the democratic process.

Seriously, what the f*ck are they putting in the water down in Boca?

This effectively disenfranchises Michigan's electorate and not Florida's. Why not split Florida's delegates evenly too? WTF?

SERIOUS shenanigans here.

The Michigan parts sounds ok, but the florida part is stupid. Obama shouldn't be punished because he played by the rules.

Michigan's 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

What's the point of this? Both net 0 in this case.

Remove all Republicans: Why are we disenfranchising the people who voted the first time? They had a choice and yet the Democratic party has chosen to be far from it and just giving the two of them 50-50. What about Edwards and his supporters? Shouldn't it be 1/3, 1/3, 1/3?

It wasn't just Edwards back then. Split 'em 8 ways among Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Dodd, Biden, Richardson, Kucinich and Gravol. (did I leave anyone out?)

Umm, I flunked math, so I am not getting a kick out of this comprimise. please someone explain the math in Sesame Street numbers for me...how the heck do you get a half- a delegate outta a whole delegate? how come Spitzer didn't ask for 1/2 a 7 diamond ho rather than a full 3 diamond ho???

Isn't Gravel still in it? 33.33, repeating, of course?

YesWeHaveNoBannanas: how the heck do you get a half- a delegate outta a whole delegate?

Using a machete.

Donald_McRonald: Michigan's 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

What's the point of this? Both net 0 in this case.

I'm not sure, but I remember hearing that neither candidate can reach the delegate count required for an official nomination, maybe this will at least put whoever is on top a more realistic goal. Essentially lowering the bar needed for victory. Haven't done the numbers, though. Anyone else know them?

The site also had an interesting video:

Link (new window)

I would love to know what they were talking about.

Sounds good to me. I really don't have a problem with this solution; it saves money, it enfranchises the voters, and doesn't necessarily come out as a hugely unfair advantage for either party.

Donald_McRonald: YesWeHaveNoBannanas: how the heck hack do you get a half- a delegate outta a whole delegate?

Using a machete.

Couldn't resist.

So why does Hillary get all of Florida's (half) delegates? Split 'em all 50/50 if they MUST be seated, but I honestly think that no matter what, Obama's getting a little bit of a smack in the face for doing what the DNC asked of him.

This will almost certainly end well.

Remove all Republicans: Nikorasu552: /florida voter
//still wish they wouldnt count our votes

Why not? It was legitimate election and you can't argue that a candidate's name wasn't on the ballot. I'm frankly afraid to revote because I'm almost certain your psychotic Republicans would put Guiliani in for some bizarre reason if you had the chance.

It was, of course, not a legitimate election. They knew it was not a legitimate election. They knew it wouldn't count. Now that Hillary needs the delegates it is supposed to count?

Split 'em both evenly, or leave them out altogether.

The primaries in these states were a mockery, because they broke the party rules. Mr. Obama played by the rules, and Ms. Clinton didn't. She shouldn't be rewarded for it, even to the tune of a couple of extra delegates.

This plan hasn't got a chance in hell

I know this isn't news... but goddamnit - the suggested do overs (a term no one should use unless you're playing four square on the playground) weren't seriously brought up until it looked like Clinton might be in real trouble to lose the nomination. What the fark's going on? Has my dad always been right? That the Democratic party has been in a non-stop self-destruct mode since LBJ gave up and Bobby Kennedy was murdered?

The party can go fark itself. But good lord. These are supposed to be professionals. If any other business ran like this it would be broken, bankrupt and megafarked.

DimensionalPunk: This plan hasn't got a chance in hell

Now, someone speaking some sense.More hot air coming outta the DNC for our smelling pleasure.

I think Obama could win big on this, based on a procedural issue. Obama could argue that Hillary campaigned in Florida (that fund raiser), thereby stripping her of her delegates. Now that would be a fun one for someone like Dean to call out on the convention floor.

Remove all Republicans: Nikorasu552: /florida voter
//still wish they wouldnt count our votes

Why not? It was legitimate election and you can't argue that a candidate's name wasn't on the ballot. I'm frankly afraid to revote because I'm almost certain your psychotic Republicans would put Guiliani in for some bizarre reason if you had the chance.

Because a lot of democrats didn't bother voting since they knew that it didn't count. That our state House of Representatives were a bunch of idiots.

I know several Obama voters who had better shiat to do than to go vote in an primary that didn't amount to a hill of beans.

However I did meet a biatchy democrat woman who did vote, just so that she could say that she had voted for a woman. Welcome to Florida.

xsarien: So why does Hillary get all of Florida's (half) delegates? Split 'em all 50/50 if they MUST be seated, but I honestly think that no matter what, Obama's getting a little bit of a smack in the face for doing what the DNC asked of him.

They get the Clinton campaign to agree to it (essentially saying that it's a fair compromise) and it still won't help Hillary catch up to Obama in terms of delegates - she would only net 19 or so, all told.

There's only one way to do this: CUT EACH OF THE DELEGATES IN HALF.

Obama gets the torso & up, Hillary gets the Thigh and down.

I'm sure she'll biatch about it somehow but it's the best we can do.

Sounds like a stupid idea to me. Splitting the delegates 50-50 is no different than not counting them. It doesn't reflect the voter's opinions.

And giving the Florida delegates as they stand now, even if it is only half, is unacceptable. Without some form of redo this doesn't reflect the voter's opinions.

And, yes, I know I'm naive for even thinking the voter's opinion matters in the first place.

But this "idea" (and I use that term losely) is both worthless AND unfair at the same time. It's so bad it both sucks AND blows.

/How do you combine both "Fail" AND "Do Not Want"?
//Oh, that's right, this plan

Oddwhun, Vanderhoot, and my friends:

The 2025 current goal does not include FL/MI delegates. Start adding them, and the target goes up. The only way Hillary or Barack can't get to 2025 is if they are very close and the Edwards delegates are the deciding factor (or, if some superfriend delegates abstain on the first ballot).

Basically this does nothing at all for Michigan, except that their superdelegates get a seat. I'd still be a little angry if I were an Obama supporter in the state, but since it's just about the same as what I was originally expecting (not counting Michigan), it's pretty much a wash. As a little extra concession, Obama should ask that the MI superdelegates also only count as halves. Again, reasonable as punishment for being asshats in the first place.

Florida. Sorry. It ain't fair. Neither of them were allowed to campaign there (and everywhere Hillary has campaigned, she has lost support). A lot of people didn't vote (since it didn't matter). But, this is probably the solution that won't lead to batshiat lawyered-up insanity ongoing while the convention should be running.

Cowboy Spencer: The primaries in these states were a mockery, because they broke the party rules. Mr. Obama played by the rules, and Ms. Clinton didn't. She shouldn't be rewarded for it, even to the tune of a couple of extra delegates.

How did she not play by the rules in Florida? The fundraising appearance was perfectly legal under DNC rules. All you're pissed about is the fact that she gets automatic name recognition. Boo-hoo. Those people have CNN - they got to watch the same damn coverage and debates that everyone in the country got to see. If you're mad because people switched parties so their vote would 'count', perhaps you're directing your anger at the wrong people. I mean, they betrayed their party - not the other way around.

Remove all Republicans: Nikorasu552: /florida voter
//still wish they wouldnt count our votes

Why not? It was legitimate election and you can't argue that a candidate's name wasn't on the ballot. I'm frankly afraid to revote because I'm almost certain your psychotic Republicans would put Guiliani in for some bizarre reason if you had the chance.

but how can you call it a Legit election when FL voters were told that the votes would NOT COUNT ahead of time?

That would be like the GOP suddenly deciding last december that the Iowa Straw Poll would be used officially to determine the GOP nominee.

xsarien: So why does Hillary get all of Florida's (half) delegates?

No, the delegates would be seated at their current ratio, but with half a vote each. Thus Hillary's 18 delegate lead becomes 9 delegates. Still totally bogus.

Son_Dee: Sounds like a stupid idea to me. Splitting the delegates 50-50 is no different than not counting them. It doesn't reflect the voter's opinions.

Agreed. But I think this is to push Obamas count over the needed number and shut Hillary up.

I can almost guarantee every DNC meeting regarding this is about making her shut up.

No, this is a good deal for Obama, if everyone agrees, it takes a weapon out of the Clinton arsenal. It's a minimal net delegate loss for him, and if there's no real campaign in either state, the claim that Hildog "won fair and square" sounds like the tripe that it is.

She's going to probably pull and Ohio in Penn, but it's a closed primary, so it will be much closer without the Rush Republicans giving her a boost. Then comes North Carolina and the remaining "they don't really count if you support Hillary" states. Hillary might do well in Puerto Rico, but I predict that Obama will still end up with the pledged delegate, state count, and popular vote lead, and the Super Delegates (ta da!) will break for him, and for change.

GooooooooooooooooooooooooooBama!

I guess the main difference between splitting a state's delegation 50/50 vs. not seating them at all is the voice they would have in the other aspects of the convention (e.g. the party's platform).

Born to Die: xsarien: So why does Hillary get all of Florida's (half) delegates?

No, the delegates would be seated at their current ratio, but with half a vote each. Thus Hillary's 39 delegate lead becomes 19 delegates. Still totally bogus.

/ftfm

This sounds like a horrible idea! Good GOD, can you imagine the outrage of people living in Florida and Michigan? Do they really think that there would really be an even split? So much for voices being heard... Obama should fight this with every ounce of his being. Clinton... Clinton would probably object as well since she'd want a bigger win.

Permitting the delegates to be sat in a manner that has no influence on the primary season is the best way to resolve this. It effectively renders both states moot so they are still being effectively punished without taking it out on the state's populations.

Since this is all just a game anyway, let them treat it like a sport. The rule sucks. Great. Don't like it? Deal with it for the remainder of the season, and then change it when the season's over.

The agreement was clear going in: if the states hold the election early, their votes are for shiat. They went ahead with the voting anyway, and nary a peep was heard about disenfranchisement until Hillary started losing.

Don't like the controversies surrounding the early primary voting? Don't like the way the superdelegates influence the outcome? Change it the rules. But take a cue from another arena of events: wait until the season's over and done with.

Son_Dee: Sounds like a stupid idea to me. Splitting the delegates 50-50 is no different than not counting them.

If they wanted their delegates to count they wouldn't have ignored the rules they agreed to before the primary's even started.

Wasn't it already agreed by all sides that no votes would count? Re-count or nothing, end of story.

Donald_McRonald: Michigan's 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

What's the point of this? Both net 0 in this case.

But if they don't seat them somehow, in the general election the Republicans will say "you ignored Michigan! Everyone in Michigan should punish you by voting Republican!"

This way they can say Michigan was represented at the convention. Even if it, um, wasn't really represented.

TheSpaceAdmiral: Donald_McRonald: Michigan's 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

What's the point of this? Both net 0 in this case.

But if they don't seat them somehow, in the general election the Republicans will say "you ignored Michigan! Everyone in Michigan should punish you by voting Republican!"

This way they can say Michigan was represented at the convention. Even if it, um, wasn't really represented.

They will seat them to put someone over the 2025 necessary.

What do people expect would happen if the voters of Florida and Michigan were included, even in a revote? Either Hillary or Obama would gain a few extra votes and we would have the same problem.

And besides, both states are too terribly peninsular to matter anyway.

I Said:

They will seat them to put someone over the 2025 necessary.

Wouldn't work that way. With Michigan and Florida voting again it pushes the required delegates to 2208.

Stupid Floppy Clownshoes: And besides, both states are too terribly peninsular to matter anyway.

Lisa: He said it was just a name!
Man: What he meant is that Monster Island is actually a peninsula.

Remove all Republicans: Nikorasu552: /florida voter
//still wish they wouldnt count our votes

Why not? It was legitimate election and you can't argue that a candidate's name wasn't on the ballot. I'm frankly afraid to revote because I'm almost certain your psychotic Republicans would put Guiliani in for some bizarre reason if you had the chance.

For the painfully obvious reason that Obama drastically closes the gap between he and Clinton when he gets a chance to campaign - as seen in every state including Ohio and Texas.