Good. Don't change the rules after the fact.

Excellent news for Democrats. Terrible news for Hillary.

cameroncrazy1984: Terrible news for Hillary.

So good news for everyone else.

Can someone explain why they even HAD the Democrat elections in Michigan and Florida? *That* was the waste of taxpayer dollars. Not all the crap after that (bickering about votes not counting, bickering that votes were tallied with taxpayer dollars and for nothing, etc.)

Rules are rules. No delegates. They should have just closed the vote down for Dems.

As pissed as I am that my vote didn't count for shiat (I'm from Michigan), I really don't think there should be a do-over. Whatever the outcome, people will just blame the fact that we got to vote twice as the reason they didn't get their desired outcome. Plus the fact that any re-do will almost certainly be mishandled, giving more ammunition for the whiners.

The assholes in the state capital farked everything up, we should be aiming our anger at them, and demanding an apology and swift kick out the door for creating such a mess of things. There's no way out of this that will make everyone happy.

downstairs: Can someone explain why they even HAD the Democrat elections in Michigan and Florida? *That* was the waste of taxpayer dollars. Not all the crap after that (bickering about votes not counting, bickering that votes were tallied with taxpayer dollars and for nothing, etc.)

Rules are rules. No delegates. They should have just closed the vote down for Dems.

If they did that, then the mob might have actually realized we were being robbed of our right to vote and maybe done something about it. (Maybe I'm just being optimistic...)

How sad that all the republicans who voted in Feb won't be able to re-register and vote twice. That's nearly as gut-wrenching as all those wasted Hillary campaigners who've been studying up on how to help the old folks in the homes complete their mail-in ballots.

At least they're trying. Screw you partisan hacks who are against a do-over, you're just a part of the problem.

Doesn't matter. Reporters are going to keep poking Ferraro with a stick until she uses the N-word on camera, at which point the Party leaders will finally step in and force Hillary to withdraw before the party self-destructs further.

You heard it here first.

This isn't over, not by a long shot.

The Jewish lobbies are applying incredible pressure on Crist and state legislators to make this happen - somehow - they're terrified that Obama might actually act like an AMERICAN president if elected.

Fark em.

If they can't get together a viable alternative to their fark up by month's end, it's time for them to accept their punishment for breaking the rules.

I don't say this just because it technically aids Obama in doing so, but because I'm sick of the overly elaborate electoral process. It's a big enough mess without dumbfarks trying to get on a high horse and throwing a wrench into the system.

downstairs: Rules are rules. No delegates. They should have just closed the vote down for Dems.

Except that the people who set the primary laws are pretty much the same people who decided to chance it and go with an early primary, hoping that the parties wouldn't punish them (some kind of punishment was a possibility from the Republicans, too). So it was the law that they had to have a Democratic primary even though the national Democrats followed though on their threat.

This is definitely bad for Clinton, as people have said. However, it may not be good for Sen. Obama. Not having some kind of revote procedure ups the (admittedly slim) chances for an ugly credentials fight on the floor of the Democratic convention. That would be bad, bad bad for whoever comes out the winner.

Your politicians and parliamentarians should start training now -- bloviating is much more difficult way up in Denver.

The Obamary seems to have its facts confused on this one. If Florida and Michigan don't have a do over, the delegates from the "renegade" primaries are still going to Denver. And ultimately the question of whether those delegates are seated or not is going to be settled by a floor vote at the convention. Do you think Obama is seriously going to tell the voters of Michigan and Florida that he doesn't want them to have a voice at the convention? What repercussions do you think that's going to have in the general? The Obama people should be hoping and praying for a do-over.

Excellent. Now put on your dunce cap and go sit on your stool, Florida.

Next time heed the warnings of the DNC. Don't just ignore them and then cry when you aren't counted because you broke the rules.

/I'm looking at you too, Michigan.

Apik0r0s:

The Jewish lobbies are applying incredible pressure on Crist

What else would you expect from a bunch of filthy Crist-killers?

/Really, dude, give your Jewish self-loathing a rest for a little while.

Apik0r0s: The Jewish lobbies are applying incredible pressure on Crist and state legislators to make this happen - somehow - they're terrified that Obama might actually act like an AMERICAN president if elected.

Evidence?

Call me skeptical if someone trots out "teh joos" to explain away what they don't like.

Shaggy_C: At least they're trying. Screw you partisan hacks who are against a do-over, you're just a part of the problem.

You don't play by the rules, you don't play the game.

life doesn't come with mulligans.

redking194: Do you think Obama is seriously going to tell the voters of Michigan and Florida that he doesn't want them to have a voice at the convention?

Obama isn't going to have to tell them anything. Howard Dean will have to tell them that.

kirby528:

life doesn't come with mulligans.

I'm really getting a kick out of this reply.

And when it comes to the floor vote over whether to credential the delegates from Florida and Michigan all of Obama's people voting to keep them out won't send a message. Nope, no message at all.

Still not sure how this one will play itself out.

There are reasons we have the rules. Otherwise, why not have the 2012 primary next month along with the 2008 primary? It would surely save a few bucks.

The reason Florida had a Democratic primary (aside from the fact that every Democrat in the Florida legislature voted to hold it in January) is that they were running a statewide ballot initiative at the same time.

Obama is relatively weak in Florida. Both in the primary and the general. He has a history of saying sane and lucid things regarding both Cuba and Israel. The "native" Floridian whites will trend much like the rest of the South.

On the other had, he could easily win the election without Florida or any deeply southern state, and not having to care what Florida thinks seems like a pretty good start to an administration.

redking194: And when it comes to the floor vote over whether to credential the delegates from Florida and Michigan all of Obama's people voting to keep them out won't send a message. Nope, no message at all.

There's a credentials committee (of people who, IIRC, have already been appointed) that takes care of that. It's not a floor vote.

So when can we expect Florida to finally get it's sh14t together? Give them another 10 years? Another 25? It's already been 8 years since their 2000 shenannigans, and now they can't even do a primary right. They are getting worse, not better.

Should we relegate their statehood so their only a territory until they demonstrate at least basic competence?

Proposal under discussion...

- Michigan's 156 delegates would be split 50-50 between Clinton and Obama.

- Florida's existing delegates would be seated at the Denver convention-but with half a vote each. That would give Clinton a net gain of about 19 elected delegates.

- The two states' superdelegates would then be able to vote in Denver, likely netting Clinton a few more delegates.

Obama still retains the lead...

downstairs: Can someone explain why they even HAD the Democrat elections in Michigan and Florida? *That* was the waste of taxpayer dollars.

You know other offices have primary elections too, right?

downstairs: Can someone explain why they even HAD the Democrat elections in Michigan and Florida? *That* was the waste of taxpayer dollars.

So I'm guessing you didn't vote February 9th.

Protip: state primaries and caucuses deal with more than the national party nomination.

Anytime he getting beat he runs to the next state and tries to stake claim. It won't work in North Carolina. Hillary will be there, she wants EVERY vote to count .. unlike him.

I hope somebody from her team gets on tv this evening and bats this shiat down...Obama is the one who wants to THROW OUT peoples votes in Florida and Michigan.

I guess, technically, Florida already screwed up this election.

Dumb question, because I don't ever recall seeing this happen, but what happens if neither candidate had enough delegates to win the nomination? Shady backroom deals? Steel cage match? Knife fight to the death?

The Stallion: Anytime he getting beat he runs to the next state and tries to stake claim. It won't work in North Carolina. Hillary will be there, she wants EVERY vote to count .. unlike him.

I hope somebody from her team gets on tv this evening and bats this shiat down...Obama is the one who wants to THROW OUT peoples votes in Florida and Michigan.

Well, she wants all the votes to count except for those pesky undemocratic caucus states.

The Stallion: Anytime he getting beat he runs to the next state and tries to stake claim. It won't work in North Carolina. Hillary will be there, she wants EVERY vote to count .. unlike him.

I hope somebody from her team gets on tv this evening and bats this shiat down...Obama is the one who wants to THROW OUT peoples votes in Florida and Michigan.

Man, I've been waiting to use this all day.

The Stallion: ...Obama is the one who wants to THROW OUT peoples votes in Florida and Michigan.

The votes were useless when they were cast.

Florida...the geo-political equivalent of a bag of dicks

Sabyen91:
Well, she wants all the votes to count except for those pesky undemocratic caucus states.


Too be quite honest, after reading about the caucuses, I don't put any faith in their results. Big deal, he won Utah, which will go Red in the general election.

Conceding that the Florida election is a fair vote is hard to defend. A lot of people did not vote because they had no particular interest in other races, and were told that their vote in the primary would not count. Still, I think a reduction-in-half (like the GOP did) of the current election is an appropriate punishment, and while morally questionable, by far the solution least likely to result in a fiasco. If you would have voted for Obama, but didn't because you were told it wouldn't count, feel free to take it out on your Florida legislators who farked it up.

Michigan, I don't see a way out of a redo. Possibly a give 1/4 of their possible delegates based on the original vote (but who gets the "Uncommitted" delegates?) and 1/4 based on a June caucus?

The Stallion: Sabyen91:
Well, she wants all the votes to count except for those pesky undemocratic caucus states.


Too be quite honest, after reading about the caucuses, I don't put any faith in their results. Big deal, he won Utah, which will go Red in the general election.

And you read about them at...hillaryis44? You do realize you do not have to stay for the caucus. You go in, vote and leave (kinda like a primary). All the caucus bashing is smoke and mirrors.

Does anyone know how many Delegates Hillary would gain if Flordia is seated? I suspect it's less than 20, in which case...who cares? Obama is up by over 150, seat them, it won't matter. Obama still wins.

fosborb: So I'm guessing you didn't vote February 9th.

Protip: state primaries and caucuses deal with more than the national party nomination.

Not to defend downstairs, but at least here in MO the presidential primary was literally the only thing on the ballot on Super Tuesday. No state races, no nothin'.

/still took the old people ahead of me 10 minutes to vote anyway

Here's a good simple story on the WA 'disconnect' between caucus and primary in the last several years.

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/942/story/95454.html (pop)

And several more here look useful:

http://www.google.com/search?aq=f&complete=1&hl=en&lr=&client=opera&rls=en&q=W A+ caucus+primary+initiative+embarrassment&as_qdr=m2&btnG=Search

As for what happens when caucus packing actually wins the nomination ... McGovern in 1972.

Sounds like we'll find out by Monday.

redking194: And when it comes to the floor vote over whether to credential the delegates from Florida and Michigan all of Obama's people voting to keep them out won't send a message. Nope, no message at all.

There's a credentials committee (of people who, IIRC, have already been appointed) that takes care of that. It's not a floor vote.

WRONG. The credentials committee makes a recommendation, but it's a floor vote at the convention that makes it official.

The Stallion:

Anytime he getting beat he runs to the next state and tries to stake claim. It won't work in North Carolina. Hillary will be there, she wants EVERY vote to count .. unlike him.

He wants every legitimate vote to count. If you break the rules that you agreed to, then refused to fix your mistake when warned of the consequences then don't play the victim card because your bluff didn't work out. Florida and Michigan farked up, refused to correct their fark up, and aren't even showing any sign of remorse for farking up.

I hope somebody from her team gets on tv this evening and bats this shiat down...Obama is the one who wants to THROW OUT peoples votes in Florida and Michigan.

The DNC threw out the votes because they weren't legitimate by the rules that both states and all campaigns agreed to before the primary season started. You can't say "I agree to not cockpunch my opponent, and failure to abide by this results in disqualification" then biatch about getting disqualified for cockpunching your opponent.

It would be hilarious if Michigan is the only one to re-vote and Obama won it. Hillary would have a fit.

From what I've read there's not much to fear from the Credentials Committee. It's just hearsay, but Dean has packed it with 50 State Strategy types, which Obama's campaign may vindicate. Also, this rumor sounds possible in lieu of the fact that Dean and the Clintons can't stand each other.

If someone has different or better info on the Credentials Comittee, I'd be interested to hear it as what I've heard wasn't through any official channel or spokesperson.

Shaggy_C: At least they're trying. Screw you partisan hacks who are against a do-over, you're just a part of the problem.


Well, Obama said he would abide by the DNC ruling. So I will abide as well, even though I was strongly against a re-do. Mostly because I believe that Florida Democrats could have done something differently than what they did.

If it's partisan to call bullshiat on the fact Hillary originally agreed to go with the DNC plan, then started squaking when she started to loose...then I guess I'm partisan. I'm in no mood for that womans shienanagans.

/The Obama Abides.

Oh, and it's hard to call an election fair when no candidate is allowed to campaign there (there were only minor violations of that agreement by both Clinton and Obama). If we had not let Obama or Clinton campaign in any state, then, yeah, Clinton would probably have won most of them. Campaigning certainly hasn't helped her anywhere, compared to her polls two weeks before the election.

Darth_Lukecash: /The Obama Abides.

That is a Photoshop waiting to happen.

I'm glad everyone knows exactly what happened for Florida to get into this predicament.

Republican Governer + Republican State Congress = Shenanigans

The state congress voted to move the primarys both past the Super Tuesday deadline. Democrats tried to vote it down but it passed anyways. So now our votes don't count in the primary because the Republicans sabotaged them.

/Switched my registration from Libertarian to Democrat on Feb 1.
//No way i'll ever vote for a Republican again. Ever.

The Stallion: Anytime he getting beat he runs to the next state and tries to stake claim. It won't work in North Carolina. Hillary will be there, she wants EVERY vote to count .. unlike him.

I hope somebody from her team gets on tv this evening and bats this shiat down...Obama is the one who wants to THROW OUT peoples votes in Florida and Michigan.

Obama is completely open to new primaries in both States, he wants every vote to count. The first primaries broke party rules, it's as simple as that. They knew it before hand, agreed to the consequences, and had their primaries anyway. Have some dignity by following the rules.

Third Day Mark: I'm glad everyone knows exactly what happened for Florida to get into this predicament.

Republican Governer + Republican State Congress = Shenanigans

The state congress voted to move the primarys both past the Super Tuesday deadline. Democrats tried to vote it down but it passed anyways. So now our votes don't count in the primary because the Republicans sabotaged them.


Not a single Democrat in Florida voted against moving the Primary.

/facts: friend or foe?