A friend of mine who goes to vet school here (LSU) said that there were only 20 or so state vet schools.

might be part of the problem.

Livestock vets? I didn't realize they got theirs separate.

Walter Reed Army Medical Center, Birthplace of Soylent Green

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Livestock vets? I didn't realize they got theirs separate.

Large animals are a specialty. I have a friend who is a race horse vet.

It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

There are 26 or 27 vet schools in the country, very competitive, brings in some of the brightest medical minds. 4 years of work after undergrad, $100k to $200k in loans depending on state of residency. $40k-$60k to start.


/Where do I sign up?

adiabat: It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Wow. That's funny.

Well they just killed all their pet cats in China, seems to me there will be some unemployed vets there soon.

Bob Ondeeznuts
adiabat: It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Wow. That's funny.


No kidding. Watched my wife go through the application process.

Bob Ondeeznuts: adiabat: It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Wow. That's funny.

Why? Do you think knowing 30+ anatomies, diseases for each creature, food requirements, etc is easy? Show us how easy it is; enroll tomorrow!
/Plus the patients can't talk!
//Super. Easy.

Bob Ondeeznuts: adiabat: It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Wow. That's funny.

Things that are true often are.

Claudia Chafer: No kidding. Watched my wife go through the application process.

Are you seriously saying that going to vet school is harder than going to medical school? Or just the application process is harder?

TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Livestock vets?

cows with guns.

What's so hard about learning how to shoot a gun or press a button that releases gas?

Vets have to be competent to treat all animals except one. I can believe that it's harder to get into vet school.

Most animals aren't given the choice, but have to follow their doctors orders. The also can't argue that they've found this great treatment on the internet and should try that first.

Claudia Chafer: Bob Ondeeznuts
adiabat: It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Wow. That's funny.


No kidding. Watched my wife go through the application process.

Bob Ondeeznuts: Claudia Chafer: No kidding. Watched my wife go through the application process.

Are you seriously saying that going to vet school is harder than going to medical school? Or just the application process is harder?

While I'm sure the application process is difficult, I' pretty sick of seeing the shirts "real doctors treat more than one species" etc. If you accidentally kill an iguana; no harm no foul. the responsibly a physician has far out weighs the responsibility of a vet.

This has been a problem for a while. Large animal vets ought to make more than small, but the reverse is true. Congress passed the Rural Veterinary Services act a while back, which provides 30k per year of money to pay student loans for vets who work in under served communities (which would include a lot of farming areas). Unless things have changed and I missed it in JAVMA, they've failed to fund it every year since passage.

That said, there is pretty much no amount of money that would induce me to get out of bed at three am during a snowstorm to replace a prolapsed uterus in a cow. Or inspect beef for tubercles all day. I'll continue to collect cat bites, than you very much.

Vets don't specialize much.

Equine Podiatrist?

Goat Proctologist?

Bovine OB/GYN?

But I like my tasty murder!

Seriously, just grow it in a vat. Then we get rid of the livestock vets (the ones for food, anyway) and have a great reason to tell PETA to STFU.

adiabat: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Livestock vets? I didn't realize they got theirs separate.

Large animals are a specialty. I have a friend who is a race horse vet.

It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Not really. I got into both, and while the percentage of applicants accepted to vet school is much lower, it's got more to do with the size of the applicant pool vs. the number of seats available than anything else. The applicant pools are roughly the same size, but there are only 28 vet schools in North America. There are something like 5 medical schools in Ohio alone. Based on my credentials, I was accepted to Vet school within about 15 minutes of my interview. I got into medical school very late, off the wait list, despite completing applications at 3 med schools vs. 1 vet school.

Of course, there's also a large number of women in veterinary medicine who decide to work only on small animals, and work only part time, so they can have kids. This sort of thing isn't a problem in most fields, but the vast majority of new vets are women. The vet schools aren't helping the problem, either. If I recall correctly, the 2010 graduating class at UNC is 100% female. This situation creates an artificial population pressure that otherwise wouldn't exist.

calm like a bomb: This has been a problem for a while. Large animal vets ought to make more than small, but the reverse is true. Congress passed the Rural Veterinary Services act a while back, which provides 30k per year of money to pay student loans for vets who work in under served communities (which would include a lot of farming areas). Unless things have changed and I missed it in JAVMA, they've failed to fund it every year since passage.

That said, there is pretty much no amount of money that would induce me to get out of bed at three am during a snowstorm to replace a prolapsed uterus in a cow. Or inspect beef for tubercles all day. I'll continue to collect cat bites, than you very much.

I had a teacher from New Zealand whose sister was a Cattle vet. Its apparently a very popular specialty there. along with sheep.

Bob Ondeeznuts: adiabat: It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

Wow. That's funny.

And absolutely true.

Bob Ondeeznuts: Are you seriously saying that going to vet school is harder than going to medical school? Or just the application process is harder?

Getting in is harder. Especially if you're one of the poor schmucks whose state doesn't have a school. Getting in under reciprocal agreement or out of state is like getting into film school at USC.

zahal: the responsibly a physician has far out weighs the responsibility of a vet.

This being Fark that hosts a weekly Caturday thread I'm not suprised people think that Vets are far more superior in their training than an MD. Oh well, you can't win them all.

shadowself: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Livestock vets?

cows with guns.


lol.

my 13 year old daughter wants to become a vet, but she wants to do it all, house pets and livestock. I told her she really has big ambitions, seeing as how much she would have to learn. Told her to start taking more math and science and if the high school will offer it, zoology would be a great class. She plans on volunteering at one of the local animal hospitals to familiarize herself with being around animals.

12 year old son on the other hand wants to get a job testing video games. go figure

/would also love to test video games.

Bob Ondeeznuts: zahal: the responsibly a physician has far out weighs the responsibility of a vet.

This being Fark that hosts a weekly Caturday thread I'm not suprised people think that Vets are far more superior in their training than an MD. Oh well, you can't win them all.

Well, if a person dies under the knife, we've got like a billion more in China.

zahal: If you accidentally kill an iguana; no harm no foul. the responsibly a physician has far out weighs the responsibility of a vet.

What does that have to do with getting in? Difficulty of school? Difficulty of the job?

darknys: If I recall correctly, the 2010 graduating class at UNC is 100% female. This situation creates an artificial population pressure that otherwise wouldn't exist.

What's the address of the vet school in Chapel Hill?

jimmyjackfunk: my 13 year old daughter wants to become a vet, but she wants to do it all, house pets and livestock. I told her she really has big ambitions, seeing as how much she would have to learn.

It's doable. Mixed practice is also the lowest paid area of practice as I recall.

voyvf: Well, if a person dies under the knife, we've got like a billion more in China.

I guess so.

/time for a break from Farking
//or beer time

tonesskin: zahal: If you accidentally kill an iguana; no harm no foul. the responsibly a physician has far out weighs the responsibility of a vet.

What does that have to do with getting in? Difficulty of school? Difficulty of the job?

You don't think that the responsibility of killing another human being weighs into the teaching of becoming a physician and the sheer stress of the job itself?

calm like a bomb: darknys: If I recall correctly, the 2010 graduating class at UNC is 100% female. This situation creates an artificial population pressure that otherwise wouldn't exist.

What's the address of the vet school in Chapel Hill?

Ah, my apologies, it's North Carolina State that has the vet school.

I'm keeping your license. I'm going to check on you. I know where you live. If you aren't back in school and on your way to being a veterinarian in six weeks, you will be dead.

darknys: Ah, my apologies, it's North Carolina State that has the vet school.

You're also wrong about the 100% women in the class of '10 thing. There are certainly lots more women than men, but not 100%

darknys: If I recall correctly, the 2010 graduating class at UNC is 100% female. This situation creates an artificial population pressure that otherwise wouldn't exist.

Does UNC even have a vet school? And where is this 100% woman thing in any vet school in the nation?

scraping-fetus-off-the-wheel: Vets don't specialize much.

They don't?

Outside hospitals, they very often specialize by species. When I moved I called around for a close vet to treat some of our menagerie. Of the ~6 in the area, only one treated anything but dogs and cats, and it's ridiculously expensive. I like my old vet anyway, even though he's pretty far away now. He's actually an equine specialist but they'll treat anything we bring to them. The practice is just him (a later middle age guy) and a young vet just out of school. If they've never seen it before they'll learn about it. They've done surgery on a hamster. Twice. (leg amputations after being stuck in bars, not the same hamster)

zahal: You don't think that the responsibility of killing another human being weighs into the teaching of becoming a physician and the sheer stress of the job itself?

I don't think killing patients is a big discussion topic at medical schools, much less a big training topic.

Many doctors won't lose a patient or won't lose many (depending on specialty). Those who do lose patients will probably become numb to it pretty quickly because it will be part of the job (depending on specialty). For instance, an oncologist knows that many patients will die. They probably aren't any more stressed than anyone else.

Not saying that the death thing isn't important, but I don't think it is relevant to job or training "difficulty."

zahal: I had a teacher from New Zealand whose sister was a Cattle vet. Its apparently a very popular specialty there. along with sheep.

South America, too. I've never actually looked into it since I'm small animal, but I wonder if they pay better or it's just a cultural thing.

adiabat: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Livestock vets? I didn't realize they got theirs separate.

Large animals are a specialty. I have a friend who is a race horse vet.

It's harder to get into vet school - by far - than med school.

There aren't enough vet schools to teach all the people that wanna treat the cute wittle fuzzy animals.

Humans aren't nearly as cute and furry : \

Also, if you fark up and kill a human being you get a lot more flack than if it happens with a dog or something. That probaly deters many people.

It's entirely possible I have incorrect information. It was secondhand, and over a year ago. It was secondhand from a vet, but googling about recently, I've been unable to locate any demographic information on vet schools.

I still stand by my statement that the large proportion of female vet students creates an artificial population pressure, especially in large animal medicine.

Subby - keep an eye out for your headline on the talk shows come monday night. ;)

zahal: the responsibly a physician has far out weighs the responsibility of a vet.

I'd disagree. We both treat patients. The fact that one is human and one is not is kind of immaterial. We all also kill patients from time to time (hasn't happened to me yet). Then the difference kicks in, as I'm probably not going to get sued, and the MD's insurance company will be out a few mil if negligence can be proven.

darknys: I still stand by my statement that the large proportion of female vet students creates an artificial population pressure, especially in large animal medicine.

Oh, I'm with you there. It has also led to the failure of our salaries to increase.

tonesskin: zahal: You don't think that the responsibility of killing another human being weighs into the teaching of becoming a physician and the sheer stress of the job itself?

I don't think killing patients is a big discussion topic at medical schools, much less a big training topic.

Many doctors won't lose a patient or won't lose many (depending on specialty). Those who do lose patients will probably become numb to it pretty quickly because it will be part of the job (depending on specialty). For instance, an oncologist knows that many patients will die. They probably aren't any more stressed than anyone else.

Not saying that the death thing isn't important, but I don't think it is relevant to job or training "difficulty."

I have to disagree; a lot of time is spend in group discussion about death of patients, ruining lives (patient and family) and how to deal with sick and dieing people. And virtually any specialty will lose patients. from GP to rheumatology.

My girl got her animal sciences degree, but didn't have the grades to make it in o vet school. She's doomed to a career of vet-techdom over a few grade points, even though her specialty is food animals. If any of you farkers know of a program that overlooks GPA and takes in to account real world experience when applying, I'd greatly appreciate a link.

tonesskin: : Not saying that the death thing isn't important, but I don't think it is relevant to job or training "difficulty."

You're entirely wrong. Any medical training program that doesn't spend a significant amount of time teaching it's practitioners how to deal with death and more importantly the survivors of the dead isn't worth attending. Ergo, they all do.

zephypyre: My girl got her animal sciences degree, but didn't have the grades to make it in o vet school. She's doomed to a career of vet-techdom over a few grade points, even though her specialty is food animals. If any of you farkers know of a program that overlooks GPA and takes in to account real world experience when applying, I'd greatly appreciate a link.

How bad is her GPA? If it's below a 3, then it ain't likely to happen. If it's low 3 range, she'd have a shot with Ross, St. Georges, or St. Michaels. Of course, it means a lot of debt and moving very far away, but it's there.

calm like a bomb: darknys: I still stand by my statement that the large proportion of female vet students creates an artificial population pressure, especially in large animal medicine.

Oh, I'm with you there. It has also led to the failure of our salaries to increase.

Yeah... I went and followed the money to REAL Doctor School. That, and patients won't bite me, except on psych rotation... and possibly peds.

/tongue firmly lodged in cheek.

darknys: I've been unable to locate any demographic information on vet schools.

Your Google is weak. From the AVMA, 77% of the 2005-2008 classes of vet school graduates are female.

Bob Ondeeznuts:

Are you seriously saying that going to vet school is harder than going to medical school? Or just the application process is harder?

It is. Human doctors have it really easy. They remember a single anatomy, one set of diseases/surgical procedures, etc. They get to ask (most of) their patients where it hurts. Usually, their patients aren't trying to run away or (in the zoo/large animal fields) trying to kill them. They tend to get much more complete histories from their patients than vets often do, aiding in the diagnosis.

At KSU we're specifically trained on horses, dogs, cats, cows, goats, pigs and sheep. We've one zoo medicine class as well for birds, reptiles, amphibians and pocket pets and a lab animal class that covers more on rats, mice and rabbits. Those of us going into zoo med get to learn hundreds of species, some of which have very different reactions to drugs and things than even their close genetic relatives.

So yes, MD's have it easy. As for getting in, the problem is basically that there're only 28 accredited veterinary schools. I have no idea how many medical schools there are, but I suspect the number is significantly higher.

/real doctors treat more than one species