Alicia C. Sheperd looks somewhat hittable in said picture. And yes, I did RFTA.

That concept is not new, Submitter. Conservatives are virtaully defined by aligning themselves with positions that are found by history (and contemporary persons with reasonable intelligence) to be utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

It's strange that they don't see it. I chalk it up to willful ignorance.

NPR always goes out of its way to interview conservatives and religious nutbags. Theres an entire show called Speaking of Faith which always treats religion as if it's not just a cult by a fancy name.

I'm sorry, but look at the "conservatives" they selected:

Hochman aimed for a sample of what leading conservatives are thinking. She set up interviews for Inskeep with Keene, Richard Land, an evangelical leader with the Southern Baptist Convention, Grover Norquist, with Americans For Tax Reform, who favors cutting taxes and Glenn Beck, a controversial radio and CNN talk show host. Hochman tried to get conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh and Fox's Sean Hannity, both of whom have been highly critical of McCain, but they weren't available.

They weren't going for intellectuals and thinkers in the vein of Bill Buckley; they were going for pundits and self-promoting advocates. These people represent bastardized, pro-Republican, big-media "conservatism," not Barry Goldwater's conservatism.

Yesdog: Conservatives are virtaully defined by aligning themselves with positions that are found by history (and contemporary persons with reasonable intelligence) to be utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

such as:
opposing communism?
low taxes and less regulation as spurs to growth?
respect for private property?
support for the free market?

yes, they are so, so wrong

kronicfeld: They weren't going for intellectuals and thinkers in the vein of Bill Buckley; they were going for pundits and self-promoting advocates. These people represent bastardized, pro-Republican, big-media "conservatism," not Barry Goldwater's conservatism.

last i checked, Barry Goldwater's conservatism isn't the kind running the country.

/just sayin'

albo: Yesdog: Conservatives are virtaully defined by aligning themselves with positions that are found by history (and contemporary persons with reasonable intelligence) to be utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

such as:
opposing communism?
low taxes and less regulation as spurs to growth?
respect for private property?
support for the free market?

yes, they are so, so wrong

There is a laundry list of things they were for too.
Slavery
Anti-Abortion
Anti-Homosexual
Censorship
Big business welfare.
bloated budgets
violating the bill of rights-with respect to warrents and separation of church and state.

/Note Just because Republicans were against slavery, conservatives were for it. The Republicans/Democrats were not always synonymous with their right/left leanings now.

Darth_Lukecash: Note Just because Republicans were against slavery, conservatives were for it.

explain that logic. are you implying that southern slaveholders were part and parcel of the modern conservative movement?

if so, you need to do a little more research

albo: Darth_Lukecash: Note Just because Republicans were against slavery, conservatives were for it.

explain that logic. are you implying that southern slaveholders were part and parcel of the modern conservative movement?

if so, you need to do a little more research

don't interrupt his hateful rant, it's amusing to watch.

NPR = Nice Polite Republicans

There are no lefty networks of any import

albo: opposing communism As a pretext to sow fear among the populace and to stifle personal freedom. See McCarthy, Joseph

low taxes As a pretext to justify their greed and seething hatred of the poor and minorities? See Reagan, Ronald

less regulation as spurs to growth Serving greedy rich corporations who write their own regulations. See Cheney, Dick

respect for private property Well, you got me there. Conservatives did try to keep the government from taking away their private property back in the 1800s. You must be so proud. See Slavery, Southern

support for the free market Again, by doling out my tax money to rich white businessmen. See Welfare, Corporate

Yesdog: As a pretext to sow fear among the populace and to stifle personal freedom. See McCarthy, Joseph

Of course, you overlooked the fact that Senator McCarthy was 100% correct in his accusations of communists in the State Department.

But facts never get in the way of a liberal rant.

Yesdog: As a pretext to justify their greed and seething hatred of the poor and minorities? See Reagan, Ronald

Are you off your meds again? This makes no sense.

kronicfeld:


They weren't going for intellectuals and thinkers in the vein of Bill Buckley;

Bill Buckley was the last intellectual y'all had in the vein of Bill Buckley.

Moreover, the conservative movement hasn't been about low taxes, limited government, personal freedom, states rights, and against military adventurism for quite some time now.

.

"The most interesting aspect of your series is why anyone with any sense of history would even want to be a conservative"

That's the problem with critical thinking: Its always painful and difficult the first time.

real shaman: Of course, you overlooked the fact that Senator McCarthy was 100% correct in his accusations of communists in the State Department.

Ah, of course, the ends justify the means.

albo: Darth_Lukecash: Note Just because Republicans were against slavery, conservatives were for it.

explain that logic. are you implying that southern slaveholders were part and parcel of the modern conservative movement?

if so, you need to do a little more research

Well now, it was a state right issue wasn't it? A popular plank in the platform of the modern conservative movement. Anti-big government and all that.

And there was an economic motive in keeping slaves. So that's a pro-business stance. Modern conservatives hate minimum wage. Market place value and all that. If the market refuses to pay...well too bad.

And by definition, conservativeness means that you don't go changing the status quo. liberal/Progressive means changing things. Slavery, in the south, was an institution.

Considering it's the conservatives who did not believe in segregation, inter-race marriage and other such nonsense. (That would be the Southern Democrats)

So I firmly believe that the slave owners would in fact, fit right in with modern conservative businessmen thought. Be it a democratic or republican conservative.


However, I can make it an argument that slave-owners were liberals too.

The black man couldn't take care of himself, so they needed owners to care for them.

They were better off here in America as slaves than uneducated in Africa.

"The most interesting aspect of your series is why anyone with any sense of history would even want to be a conservative or a liberal,"

Better, now, though it is still very incomplete. Throw in almost all the known -isms and -ologies, and it would be a lot closer.

SilentStrider: last i checked, Barry Goldwater's conservatism isn't the kind running the country.

I wish it were less scarce. I'd be happy to see some pre-Contract For America Republican sentiments out there. If only the Republicans would knock it off with the Fundamentalist Christianity and Corporate Socialism I might be able to be a real Independent again and consider voting for one of them...

FTFA: "I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear so many reasoned, articulate -- and real -- conservative voices on NPR this week," wrote Mark Willis in an email. "I hope this move toward balance and objectivity continues well into and beyond the current John McCain crisis."

Highlighted for hilarity.

"The most interesting aspect of your series is why anyone with any sense of history would even want to be a conservative or a liberal or a moderate,"

No one should have a firm postion or lack a firm postition. I know what you're thinking and it's wrong.

real shaman: This makes no sense.

Don't blame me for your lack of reading comprehension. Go slap your third grade elementary teacher.

kronicfeld: they were going for pundits and self-promoting advocates.

What better to cut to the heart of mainstream political opinion?

These people represent bastardized, pro-Republican, big-media "conservatism," not Barry Goldwater's conservatism.

We call the latter paleo-conservatism now. Welcome to the last 30 years.

Yikes, every time I hear about Joe McCartney being "right" just makes me rather ill.

The biggest problem with him was that he never could substantiate his charges (any where from 57 to 205...the number changed). And the Army got mad because his accusations interfered with ongoing serious investigations.

So, why would someone want to be a modern W. Bush conservative?

I mean, I understand Goldwater conservatism, libertarianism, etc., but I still don't get why people defend Bush himself or his administration.

Can anyone explain that?

SphericalTime: Can anyone explain that?

Cos deficits don't matter, trickle down economics works, abortion is murder, and the ayrabs are going to kill us all if we don't nuke Iran.

SphericalTime: So, why would someone want to be a modern W. Bush conservative?

I mean, I understand Goldwater conservatism, libertarianism, etc., but I still don't get why people defend Bush himself or his administration.

Can anyone explain that?

9/11 changed everything.

albo: such as:
opposing communism?
low taxes and less regulation as spurs to growth?
respect for private property?
support for the free market?

yes, they are so, so wrong


You forgot protecting the Second Amendment.

/Conservative.

I don't have anything against fiscal conservatives.

Social conservatives have blocked human progress at every possible juncture. Social conservatism is now and has always been based on a misguided and completely untrue idolization of the past.

If it were up to social conservatives, we never would have crawled out of the caves in which we used to huddle.

albo: Yesdog: Conservatives are virtaully defined by aligning themselves with positions that are found by history (and contemporary persons with reasonable intelligence) to be utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

such as:
opposing communism?
low taxes and less regulation as spurs to growth?
respect for private property?
support for the free market?

yes, they are so, so wrong

This. Thanks Albo. Bill Buckley said to say thanks for upholding the good word as well.

Ok, come on guys. Yes, the people NPR interviewed are idiots. However, NPR is a NEWS source. It exists to report news, not to filter everything out of existence that isn't "intellectual." Yes, that may include interviewing right-wing, fundamentalist nutjobs. It's probably a good thing NPR is willing to interview these people without so subordinating themselves to partisan pressures.

Ahhhh.... here come the 'conservatives'.

The_Sponge: You forgot protecting the Second Amendment.

The most pro-gun candidate in the primaries was a Democrat. Bill Richardson. A- from the NRA.

Ace Frehley's Ghost: 9/11 changed everything.

Shaggy_C: Cos deficits don't matter, trickle down economics works, abortion is murder, and the ayrabs are going to kill us all if we don't nuke Iran.

So, nothing?

SphericalTime

I mean, I understand Goldwater conservatism, libertarianism, etc., but I still don't get why people defend Bush himself or his administration.

Can anyone explain that?

Money.

And for those not making money off of it the answer changes to:

Blatant ignorance

Aeonic_Blue: I don't have anything against fiscal conservatives.

I only have problems with fiscal conservatives who take their mentality to the Rand-style extreme. And the ones who believe the lies and talking points and refuse to address reality.

Darth_Lukecash: albo: Yesdog: Conservatives are virtaully defined by aligning themselves with positions that are found by history (and contemporary persons with reasonable intelligence) to be utterly and embarrassingly wrong.

such as:
opposing communism?
low taxes and less regulation as spurs to growth?
respect for private property?
support for the free market?

yes, they are so, so wrong

There is a laundry list of things they were for too.
Slavery
Anti-Abortion
Anti-Homosexual
Censorship
Big business welfare.
bloated budgets
violating the bill of rights-with respect to warrents and separation of church and state.

/Note Just because Republicans were against slavery, conservatives were for it. The Republicans/Democrats were not always synonymous with their right/left leanings now.

Most of the "conservatives" were actually progressives and Democrats, not true conservatives in the sense that we use it now. Might as well call conservatives classic liberals. The religious right is far too paternalist and is more left on social issues in that Government should be some force for good in society and enforce social mores.

re: prohibition...eugneics et. al.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum
Moreover, the conservative movement hasn't been about low taxes, limited government, personal freedom, states rights, and against military adventurism for quite some time now.

Yeah, no more than the liberal movement has actually been about increased freedoms.

The problem with most idiots on this subject is that they refuse to see anything more than their own deluded stereotype of the people they don't agree with.

There are plenty of conservatives who meet that definition and support the classic aim of conservatism. There are many liberals who meet that definition and support the classic aims of liberalism. You, however, will not be likely to find these individuals in either of the parties.

I've noticed a directly inverse relationship between the louder a person claims to be a representative of some particular movement or virtue, and the degree that they actually display that characteristic.

From where I sit, there is little difference to the two sides. Neither tolerates dissent or question of their opinions, and both are not only willing, but eager, to remove any choice or freedom that they don't agree with from people.

Actually, among those people who actually keep track of such things, NPR consistently favors right of center and centrist sources over left of center sources. Hoover Inst., Cato Inst., CSIS, and Wall Street Journal opinionators are featured daily on NPR news and commentary shows. Its unheard to have actual dissdents, like Noam Chomsky, Alexander Cockburn, Edward Said (rip) or others like them on those same shows. Everyonce is a great while someone from "The Nation" will make it on or someone from the Center For American Progress. But it happens so rarely that its worth sitting up and taking notice when it ACTUALLY happens.

SphericalTime: The_Sponge: You forgot protecting the Second Amendment.

The most pro-gun candidate in the primaries was a Democrat. Bill Richardson. A- from the NRA.

THIS. The knee jerk "OMG 2ND AMENDMENT!" types don't seem to have noticed a shift in policy within the national Democratic party away from further restriction of gun rights. Pro-gun Democrats led the 2006 takeover of congress.

SphericalTime: Can anyone explain that?

Stupidity, sad and simple.

Hard to believe, I know; but it's rampant.

TDBoedy
Most of the "conservatives" were actually progressives and Democrats, not true conservatives in the sense that we use it now. Might as well call conservatives classic liberals. The religious right is far too paternalist and is more left on social issues in that Government should be some force for good in society and enforce social mores.

Not true Scotsmen, huh?

Ace Frehley's Ghost: SphericalTime: So, why would someone want to be a modern W. Bush conservative?

I mean, I understand Goldwater conservatism, libertarianism, etc., but I still don't get why people defend Bush himself or his administration.

Can anyone explain that?

9/11 changed everything.

Anybody notice Hillary Clinton's spokesman saying that on the Bill Maher video? Spreaking of conservatives..

You know there ARE differences between fiscal conservatives, (the people that oppose communism, and support free market economics) and social conservatives (the people that supported and/or support slavery, keeping women in the kitchen, bashing gays, censorship, religious fundimentalism, Rush Limbaugh). I imagine if the vast majority of people ever realized this the modern Republican party would colapse into the two components of it's bullshiat.

I'd love to see the Democraitc Party and the Republican Party fight it out with the Fundie Party, Capitalist Party, Socialist, Green, Libertarian, Independent, Whig, and probably Soccer Moms For Precious Snowflakes parties every four years instead of this crap we have now. My dream for America is it becomes more like Canada. Sex Party in 12!

7of7: NPR always goes out of its way to interview conservatives and religious nutbags. Theres an entire show called Speaking of Faith which always treats religion as if it's not just a cult by a fancy name.

Somacandra: NPR consistently favors right of center and centrist sources over left of center sources.

Indeed. For being reputed to be the "far left" news source, it's really quite mid-to-rightish.

I recall an interview with Cheney in which not a single statement was challenged in any way. It was like a prepaid rightwing propaganda piece.

Grover Norquist might have actually stood for genuine conservative ideology a long time ago, but he's mainly a republican propagandist now whos main interest is collecting paychecks to catapult republicans into office, regardless if their ideals are parallel to his own. It's amazing how quickly they all turned on to McCain as soon as right wing welfare checks started rolling in. To think they all hated his guts a week before.

NPR is mid-left. If I'm an upscale leftist, so is Larry the Cable Guy. Subby is trolling.

Falcc
You know there ARE differences between fiscal conservatives, (the people that oppose communism, and support free market economics) and social conservatives (the people that supported and/or support slavery, keeping women in the kitchen, bashing gays, censorship, religious fundimentalism, Rush Limbaugh)

You know that not all of either of those necessarily support all the positions you list? And, just because someone doesn't that marraige rights should be extended to gays doesn't mean they believe in "gay bashing".

It's too bad that we don't have a word for someone who assumes they know everything about someone simply because they can be said to belong to some group.......

grxymkjbn: Somacandra: NPR consistently favors right of center and centrist sources over left of center sources.

Indeed. For being reputed to be the "far left" news source, it's really quite mid-to-rightish.

I recall an interview with Cheney in which not a single statement was challenged in any way. It was like a prepaid rightwing propaganda piece.

Welcome to America, where centrist, somewhat objective news is labeled left wing and hippie news.

Seriously, fiscal conservatism has its place, I don't usually agree with it (MOST fiscal conservatives seem to be of the "I don't wanna pay taxes! BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!" variety), but there is a role for someone who says "How you gonna pay for that?" Social conservatism is the bane of this and every other time. Religious control freaks, "moral" crusaders, the temperance movement, the "Moral Majority," horrible blights upon culture and social advancement.

The Republicans have the most egregious social conservatives (The prolife, anti gay bigots and the general Religious Right nutjobs) while the Democrats have their share of stupid (Tipper Gore, hell even Hillary went down on Jack Thompson, one reason she'll never get my vote), but not quite as much.

However, modern conservatism is dominated by social conservatives. If you wonder why they don't interview more rational fiscal conservatives it's because they play, at most, a minor role in the American conservative movement.

SphericalTime: The most pro-gun candidate in the primaries was a Democrat. Bill Richardson. A- from the NRA.



BOOYAH

kronicfeld: They weren't going for intellectuals and thinkers in the vein of Bill Buckley; they were going for pundits and self-promoting advocates. These people represent bastardized, pro-Republican, big-media "conservatism," not Barry Goldwater's conservatism.



nnnyessss... i'd say these men are conservatives in the same way a three dollar bill is currency. it is mostly an exercise of the imagination that falls painfully short of being the real thing.