Why are they asking such a question?

I'm sorry to have taken so long
Must have been a biatch while I was gone

I doubt it. Why not produce the actual text of the bill and show where it says that students get full credit for giving that answer on an exam.

Oklahoma: Proudly marching toward the 12th century.

/raised in OK
//apologizes humbly on behalf of all intelligent Okies (the dozen or so that Oklahoma possesses)

Oh thank goodness we don't live in Oklahoma. I'd have to send my son out of state for school.

I do have to say that I am quite pleased to see ERV links being posted. She's quite a brilliant woman.

Is this some kind of sick joke?

I suppose Bevets will be here soon to show us all how stupid we are to believe those lyin' "scientists".

Idiot Creationists atheists see unanswered questions, proclaim 'GOD DID [N' DO] IT!' and expect a pat on the head. They are shocked and offended when people laugh at them.

FTFY

SkinnyHead: I doubt it. Why not produce the actual text of the bill and show where it says that students get full credit for giving that answer on an exam.

The Google knows all. ^{(^)} First result is a .rtf document of the bill.

SkinnyHead: I doubt it. Why not produce the actual text of the bill and show where it says that students get full credit for giving that answer on an exam.

This site looks pretty "official" with quotes from the guy who wrote the bill. (pops)

Personal opinion: this is incredibly retarded. Keep your religion out of public schools. If you don't believe in that science nonsense, then when your kids come home from a rough day of being persecuted, you just say "Well, we believe something different, honey. Just answer the questions the way they want, but we know what we believe."

I can't wait for this to be abused. It'll be really awesome.

People who don't think global warming exists (or that human activity is not the cause).

People who believe that the moon landing was faked.

People who believe creationism or "intellegent design" over the theory of evolution and want it taught in science classes.

Please stop breathing.

CheddarPants: I'm sorry to have taken so long
Must have been a biatch while I was gone

Ohh that's good.

/ I still listen to the Replacements version of that song.
// RIP Ace

However, the answer must be in the form of a question to get full credit.

The version I quoted from is http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08bills/HB/HB2211_HFLR.RTF

I did not find a newer version.

Obligatory

Well, it is not like the so-called scientists have proof Earth is older than that. All they have are these theories, conjectures and fancy words, but you can't run forever on make-belief.

Yeah, I have seen the "footage" from the Moon too, but you got the draw the line somewhere. School sounds like a good place to start to me.

paulseta: Is this some kind of sick joke?

I suppose Bevets will be here soon to show us all how stupid we are to believe those lyin' "scientists".

Wow, literally the next post. You, sir, must be a prophet. May we base a new religion on you for Bevets to mock?

I_Approve_Of_This_Message! You're too late! You're tooooo laaaaaaaaaaaaaaate!

Every time I have a slight glimpse of hope for this country, I see something like this.

I think I'm just going to stay perpetually drunk.

Also, insanity isn't caused by problems in the brain it's just demons.

paulseta: Is this some kind of sick joke?

I suppose Bevets will be here soon to show us all how stupid we are to believe those lyin' "scientists".

It's like you're psychic...

Which means you're touched by SATAN!!!

/Power of Christ compels you

For how many years will the world be 6000 years old? I really don't think it's appropriate to round to the nearest thousand when your only dealing with thousands.

paulseta: 2008-03-09 08:33:11 PM

I suppose Bevets will be here soon to show us all how stupid we are to believe those lyin' "scientists".

next post...

Bevets: 2008-03-09 08:41:08 PM

blah blah blah

Behold paulseta, the herald of Bevets.

The most ludicrous thing I have read in this thread is that a school would even ask such a question. Nobody knows how old the earth is and to put such a question on a test you undoubtedly have an agenda one way or another.

JPJ007: The Google knows all. (^) First result is a .rtf document of the bill.

Thanks for the help. But I don't see anything in the bill about the age of the earth. Where's that part?

Di Atribe: This site looks pretty "official" with quotes from the guy who wrote the bill. (pops)

Thanks for that too, but I still didn't see anything in there about the age of the earth.

m2313: Also, insanity isn't caused by problems in the brain it's just demons.


Agrees

Massa Damnata: For how many years will the world be 6000 years old? I really don't think it's appropriate to round to the nearest thousand when your only dealing with thousands.

Well, it is not 6000 years old. It is a bit more than that. If you haven't spent time studying "science", you'd be able to calculate it yourself easily.

/ you shouldn't interpret those numbers so _literally_ you know

Found it -

SECTION 4. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 27-104 of Title 70, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work.

Shrugging Atlas:

Behold paulseta, the herald of Bevets.

Or perhaps paulseta is Bevets!!

jaharley: The most ludicrous thing I have read in this thread is that a school would even ask such a question. Nobody knows how old the earth is and to put such a question on a test you undoubtedly have an agenda one way or another.

God, I love these threads!

jcooli09: Shrugging Atlas:

Behold paulseta, the herald of Bevets.

Or perhaps paulseta is Bevets!!

*insert shocked gasp here*

Bevets:
Idiot Creationists see unanswered questions, proclaim 'GOD DID IT!' and expect a pat on the head. They are shocked and offended when people laugh at them.

FTFY

Fixed that for whom now?
And you posted right after your name was spoken.
Kind of like Iuz.

\found it funny
\\at, not with

For how many years will the world be 6000 years old? I really don't think it's appropriate to round to the nearest thousand when your only dealing with thousands.

"6,000 years old" is typically a shorthand for Ussher's time of creation: the evening before October 23, 4004 BC. There are young earth creationists who reject that date but still believe the universe is thousands of years old rather than millions or billions.

jaharley: The most ludicrous thing I have read in this thread is that a school would even ask such a question. Nobody knows how old the earth is and to put such a question on a test you undoubtedly have an agenda one way or another.

This is true, but good estimates exist, estimates which are based on current scientific observations. On the order of 4 billion years would be a good answer.

on the order of 6000 years would not.

paulseta: I suppose Bevets will be here soon to show us all how stupid we are to believe those lyin' "scientists".

Shaggy_C:
SECTION 4. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 27-104 of Title 70, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work.

Ooooooooh baby!
FSM is about to become the standard in homework, artwork and other written and oral assignments.

2x+3 = Touched by his noodly appendage.

This gonna be epic.

Shaggy_C: Found it -

SECTION 4. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 27-104 of Title 70, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work.

The gist of that part seems to be, if a student wants to submit a religious answer in an academic setting, the answer will be judged based on academic standards. Unless a "legitimate pedagogical concern identified by the school district" is disagreement with one of the ordinary academic standards?

The Dynamite Monkey: jaharley: The most ludicrous thing I have read in this thread is that a school would even ask such a question. Nobody knows how old the earth is and to put such a question on a test you undoubtedly have an agenda one way or another.

God, I love these threads!

Are you suggesting you know the EXACT age of the earth? Please share!

jcooli09:

This is true, but good estimates exist, estimates which are based on current scientific observations. On the order of 4 billion years would be a good answer.

on the order of 6000 years would not.

Agreed, I was referring to someone claiming to know the exact age of the earth as some biblical scholars will claim or as Dynamite Monkey seems to know.

Shaggy_C: Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work.

If I were the professor, I wouldn't penalize them for that answer, I'd just throw out that question for them, then the remaining questions would be worth more points each. Essentially if a student were such a moron, their other mistakes would cost them more.

jaharley

The most ludicrous thing I have read in this thread is that a school would even ask such a question. Nobody knows how old the earth is and to put such a question on a test you undoubtedly have an agenda one way or another.

I thought I would throw some satanic gobbledygook in here just to freak out the Jesus People:



The generally accepted age for the Earth and the rest of the solar system is about 4.55 billion years (plus or minus about 1%). This value is derived from several different lines of evidence.

Unfortunately, the age cannot be computed directly from material that is solely from the Earth. There is evidence that energy from the Earth's accumulation caused the surface to be molten. Further, the processes of erosion and crustal recycling have apparently destroyed all of the earliest surface.

The oldest rocks which have been found so far (on the Earth) date to about 3.8 to 3.9 billion years ago (by several radiometric dating methods). Some of these rocks are sedimentary, and include minerals which are themselves as old as 4.1 to 4.2 billion years. Rocks of this age are relatively rare, however rocks that are at least 3.5 billion years in age have been found on North America, Greenland, Australia, Africa, and Asia.

While these values do not compute an age for the Earth, they do establish a lower limit (the Earth must be at least as old as any formation on it). This lower limit is at least concordant with the independently derived figure of 4.55 billion years for the Earth's actual age.

The most direct means for calculating the Earth's age is a Pb/Pb isochron age, derived from samples of the Earth and meteorites. This involves measurement of three isotopes of lead (Pb-206, Pb-207, and either Pb-208 or Pb-204). A plot is constructed of Pb-206/Pb-204 versus Pb-207/Pb-204.

If the solar system formed from a common pool of matter, which was uniformly distributed in terms of Pb isotope ratios, then the initial plots for all objects from that pool of matter would fall on a single point.

Over time, the amounts of Pb-206 and Pb-207 will change in some samples, as these isotopes are decay end-products of uranium decay (U-238 decays to Pb-206, and U-235 decays to Pb-207). This causes the data points to separate from each other. The higher the uranium-to-lead ratio of a rock, the more the Pb-206/Pb-204 and Pb-207/Pb-204 values will change with time.

If the source of the solar system was also uniformly distributed with respect to uranium isotope ratios, then the data points will always fall on a single line. And from the slope of the line we can compute the amount of time which has passed since the pool of matter became separated into individual objects. See the Isochron Dating FAQ or Faure (1986, chapter 18) for technical detail.

A young-Earther would object to all of the "assumptions" listed above. However, the test for these assumptions is the plot of the data itself. The actual underlying assumption is that, if those requirements have not been met, there is no reason for the data points to fall on a line.

The resulting plot has data points for each of five meteorites that contain varying levels of uranium, a single data point for all meteorites that do not, and one (solid circle) data point for modern terrestrial sediments. It looks like this:

I think it pretty hilarious that old scientists (Newton, Kepler) were strict creationists.

Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions.

2 + 2 = Odin

SkinnyHead: Thanks for that too, but I still didn't see anything in there about the age of the earth.

I think what subby meant... and I am not subby, so I'm just presuming here... is that theoretically, a very poor answer could be given to a question and a student could claim that's what their religion teaches, therefore that's what they believe. The teacher would then have to give them credit for the answer being right. Well hell, I believe 2 + 2 is 5. That's my belief. I demand that you accept my answer and tell me I'm right. I wish everyone could see how quickly this could get out of hand.

In their defense, I would say that most religious people do not believe that the Earth is actually 6,000 years old. Most that I know believe that the Earth is billions of years old, but that timeline is split up into 6 distinct eras, therefore accounting for the "six days" that God spent creating the Earth. I think it's kind of silly, but it beats the hell out of the 6,000 year thing.

Shaggy_C: Found it -

SECTION 4. NEW LAW A new section of law to be codified in the Oklahoma Statutes as Section 27-104 of Title 70, unless there is created a duplication in numbering, reads as follows:
Students may express their beliefs about religion in homework, artwork, and other written and oral assignments free from discrimination based on the religious content of their submissions. Homework and classroom assignments shall be judged by ordinary academic standards of substance and relevance and against other legitimate pedagogical concerns identified by the school district. Students shall not be penalized or rewarded on account of the religious content of their work.

Nothing about the age of the earth in that section either. There must be some other portion of the bill about testing students on the age of the earth. Either that, or these Evolutionists are just lying about it. I wonder which one it could be?

jaharley: The most ludicrous thing I have read in this thread is that a school would even ask such a question. Nobody knows how old the earth is and to put such a question on a test you undoubtedly have an agenda one way or another.

Yes. Almost all teachers have an agenda. It's called a lesson plan. The agenda in a science class is to teach science. And geologists pretty much all believe that the Earth formed 4.55 +/- .1 billion years ago. They asked me that on a test, in my state. We know that by numerous astronomical, geological, and physical (radionuclide decay) observations that all infer the exact same answer.