This will not end well for the union.

Hero? WTF? What heroic about a union (a VERY small one by the way) being on board with a left wing political agenda?

ozarkmatt: Hero? WTF? What heroic about a union (a VERY small one by the way) being on board with a left wing political agenda?

what's good about the war?

/not supporting this closure. Just saying, it's probably what they're getting at.

ozarkmatt: Hero? WTF? What heroic about a union (a VERY small one by the way) being on board with a left wing political agenda?

They've been that way for a long time. Still stupid though.

ozarkmatt: ....with a left wing political agenda?

Apparently 60+% of Americans are "left wing", since they don't support the stupid bloody pointless war in Iraq.

http://pollingreport.com/iraq.htm

I thought you were supposed to ask for concessions that directly affected the work-life of the people you were supposed to represent...

ozarkmatt: Hero? WTF? What heroic about a union (a VERY small one by the way) being on board with a left wing political agenda?

citizens exercising what power they have to influence the politics of the nation. wow, terrible.

haven't they gotten the memo that the citizens are not meant to have a voice in this nation's decision making?

neapoi: I thought you were supposed to ask for concessions that directly affected the work-life of the people you were supposed to represent...

Their sons and daughters -- the kids NOT named "Bush" and "Cheney" and "Clinton" -- are over there getting shot at.

ozarkmatt: Hero? WTF? What heroic about a union (a VERY small one by the way) being on board with a left wing political agenda?

The ILWU is THE union that handles all of the cargo at the ports. It may be a small union, but it has ALL of the power at the ports.

Sigh. OK, straw man. The opinion of this/that/any war by you, me, or even the ILWU is not relevant. My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

I thought embargoes were only done by one enemy against another.

ozarkmatt: Sigh. OK, straw man. The opinion of this/that/any war by you, me, or even the ILWU is not relevant. My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

citizens, any citizens, standing up to a government they feel is being in some way unscrupulous with the public trust is heroic.

How are they gonna publicize their views next?

burndtdan:
citizens, any citizens, standing up to a government they feel is being in some way unscrupulous with the public trust is heroic.

It was a union vote. Thus, the union announcement. No matter how the individual members of that union may feel about the issue. Since it wasn't mentioned, I would be safe to assume that vote wasn't 42,000 - 0. Therefore, some "citizens" in that union did not agree.

My point - again - is there is NOTHING heroic about a union supporting a left-wing political agenda.

If they like their jobs I highly recommend they don't make it for more than one day.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Their sons and daughters -- the kids NOT named "Bush" and "Cheney" and "Clinton" -- are over there getting shot at.

But two men named McCain are.

Hero, the tag stands.

Unlike too many U.S. servicemen and women who've lost limbs in Mr. Bush's Grand Iraqi Adventure.

adiabat:

But two men named McCain are.

Don't forget Senator James Webb's (D) son. U.S.M.C..

When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight: RECON!

ozarkmatt Do a stint in the mines or a steel mill. You'll be praying to your own personal jesus for a union.

2wolves: ozarkmatt Do a stint in the mines or a steel mill. You'll be praying to your own personal jesus for a union.

What? For all you know, my personal Jesus is a union. Or Depeche Mode.

Again. wait, let me copy and paste . . . .My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

ozarkmatt:
What? For all you know, my personal Jesus is a union. Or Depeche Mode.

Again. wait, let me copy and paste . . . .My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

Closing down this many ports, in the U.S., is mundane? Your premise needs work.

Wow. If they really do that in May, the president will topple before next February.

Louder And More Dissonant: Wow. If they really do that in May, the president will topple before next February.

Or they'll all get fired and illegal aliens will be working the docks.

Your quote.

2wolves: Closing down this many ports, in the U.S., is mundane?

My quote.

ozarkmatt: My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

Let's play that game where you have to spot the differences.

TFA: This is the first time in decades that an American union has decided to undertake industrial action against a U.S. war.

When you put it that way, it's not just union games but a capital crime.

has decided to undertake industrial action against a U.S. war.

Treason?

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Apparently 60+% of Americans are "left wing", since they don't support the stupid bloody pointless war in Iraq.

And, what, you would rather be in the minority?

Why are you complaining, again?

Well, when they finish the tran-America highway, they'll be shutting down all of America's ports anyway and funneling all the cargo through non union controlled Mexican ports.

Digeratus: Why are you complaining, again?

i was responding to another post, not complaining.

the few remaining bush sycophants and the right wing talking heads insist that anti-iraq-war sentiment is a "left wing" thing. it's not. it's much more mainstream and bipartisan at this point. anyone who thinks that being against the war in iraq is a "left wing" opinion deserves to have their minority status thrown back in their face.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: the few remaining bush sycophants and the right wing talking heads insist that anti-iraq-war sentiment is a "left wing" thing. it's not. it's much more mainstream and bipartisan at this point. anyone who thinks that being against the war in iraq is a "left wing" opinion deserves to have their minority status thrown back in their face.

Ok Mr. Straw.

Damn.

ozarkmatt

Mundane: everyday: found in the ordinary course of events; "a placid everyday scene"; "it was a routine day";

Your premise needs work.

RobertBruce: Treason?

War has not been declared by Congress. You know, the only body in that has the Constitutional power to declare war.

A union taking a left wing position = Mundane: everyday: found in the ordinary course of events; "a placid everyday scene"; "it was a routine day"

No, I think my position is sound.

ozarkmatt

The action, while it may be construed as left wing whatever that means; it is a given that the scope and possible impact is anything but mundane.

Accepting the facts of the waste of lives and treasure of the United States (for no national gain) it may be fairly argued that such an action would be right of center and a prudent course. Fiscally speaking.

Weaver95: Or they'll all get fired and illegal aliens will be working the docks.

But then you're counting on the teamster's crossing the lines and driving that cargo from point A to point B and so on. I don't think that's likely. I'm old enough to remember when the teamsters shut down trucking in this country. I was young then, but I remember it wasn't pretty, with people sniping military convoys and that sort of thing.
This could get interesting.

2wolves: War has not been declared by Congress. You know, the only body in that has the Constitutional power to declare war.

That was the biggest beef from my roommate at the time. He claimed he had no problem with going after Saddam but since Congress never authorized it, therefore, it couldn't happen.

He shut up after this Link (new window)
a law passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243.

None of this makes that union a hero.

ozarkmatt:

None of this makes that union a hero.

For potentially shutting down Mr. Bush's Grand Iraqi Adventure? Yeah, that rates a Hero tag from me. So far the tally is three dead buddies, five seriously wounded, two under long term professional mental health care.

No WMD (see Operation Desert Fox/French Intel), no links to terrorists groups associated with the 09/11/2001 attacks within the U.S., and foolhardy promises that the invasion and occupation would pay for itself.

ozarkmatt:

He shut up after this Link (new window)
a law passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243.



The subject that I replied to was "Treason." Your use of force link is not, I repeat, not a declaration of war and therefore the terms and conditions necessary to prosecute treason do not specifically apply.

ozarkmatt: Ok Mr. Straw.

Welcome to Fark where "I disagree with you" is somehow translated to "Durrrrr.....that's a STRAWMAN ARGUMENTS!!!!;11!!.

You claimed it's a "left wing" thing, showing their "left wing agenda". Unless you somehow believe that 63% of Americans are "left wingers", then opposition to the Iraq war is not a "left wing" opinion. It is bipartisan, majority opinion.

Somehow proving the bullshiat in your words is a strawman argument? They ARE your words, after all. Did I make up the part where you said this was indicative of a "left wing political agenda"?

2wolves: For potentially shutting down Mr. Bush's Grand Iraqi Adventure? Yeah, that rates a Hero tag from me.

Sigh. Again, let me copy and paste. Again. Sigh.

My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

ozarkmatt

Sigh, see comment directly below your last comment. It is not left-wing (which you've failed to define). Unless the U.S. has overnight become a bee hive of commies and dirty socialists....

The subject that I replied to was "Treason."

Oh hell, I'm not talking about Treason at all. In my book, you can pretty much say whatever you want. Just don't be yelling "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater.

I'm just saying, for yet ANOTHER time, a union supporting a left wing agenda is not heroic.

Wait, you might have missed it, let me put it in here again.
My point was simple, a union supporting a left wing political agenda is not heroic. It is mundane and expected.

Ah hell 2wolves I'm getting nailed from all over, but yours is one I want to respond to, you seem to understand the concept of debate. Gimmie a second.

ozarkmatt

Fiscally and politically this action would be difficult to label as "left wing." The difficulty is in your court. Fire away.

ozarkmatt

1. What is being accomplished in Iraq?

2. What part of 1. would not be necessary if we weren't illegally occupying the country?

I am honestly interested in your answer.

Manic_Repressive: But then you're counting on the teamster's crossing the lines and driving that cargo from point A to point B and so on. I don't think that's likely. I'm old enough to remember when the teamsters shut down trucking in this country. I was young then, but I remember it wasn't pretty, with people sniping military convoys and that sort of thing.
This could get interesting.


Teamsters? feh! Papa NAFTA to the rescue!

Locals get uppity? Just outsource their jobs.

ozarkmatt: Hero? WTF? What heroic about a union (a VERY small one by the way) being on board with a left wing political agenda?

I'm against the war, and I'm so right wing that I think the John Birch Society is a bunch of commie pinkos.

ScubaDude1960:

I'm against the war, and I'm so right wing that I think the John Birch Society is a bunch of commie pinkos.

You must despise the U.S. Constitution. That's unfortunate.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: Welcome to Fark where "I disagree with you" is somehow translated to "Durrrrr.....that's a STRAWMAN ARGUMENTS!!!!;11!!.

You claimed it's a "left wing" thing, showing their "left wing agenda". Unless you somehow believe that 63% of Americans are "left wingers", then opposition to the Iraq war is not a "left wing" opinion. It is bipartisan, majority opinion.

Somehow proving the bullshiat in your words is a strawman argument? They ARE your words, after all. Did I make up the part where you said this was indicative of a "left wing political agenda"?

OK this one is easy. Let me expand my original post. Scroll up to what I was/has been talking about. Here in America we have determined there is a "right wing" and a "left wing." These concepts have been used in the political process for YEARS. In many of a country, nation, tribal unit, local homeowners association.

Since most people worldwide cannot look at any political issue without "checking with their friends" it became real easy to assume how you would think about an issue based on an entire different issue.
Thus, you are against abortion? You are Right wing.
You are against free speech? You are Left Wing.
You want legalized dope? Well, you're both. And neither.

But the one thing that is constant in American politics. A union identified with the AFL-CIO, hell, pretty much any "worker's union" anywhere will be left wing. Aligned with Socialist sensibilities. Which of the two major political parties in America is the Democrats.

Ans since the current president is a Republican, therefore ANYTHING he wants to do is bad - if you are a Democrat.

So, again. A union against a war that is assumed as "Bush's war" is not, in any way, surprising. It's mundane.

common; ordinary; banal; unimaginative

ozarkmatt: A union against a war that is assumed as "Bush's war" is not, in any way, surprising. It's mundane.

Whose war is it?