Wow, that's really crappy. I'm anti-war and have reservations about some of the tricks the military uses to get people to sign, but that whole story is farked. If the kid wants to sign up for the military, I say let him.

On the other hand, he could also just wait a year until he's 18 and just give his middle finger to the judge on the way in. It's not like he's going to be able to do anything until then, anyway.

She expressed concern that recruiters treat recruits "like another warm body," he said. "She said, `All you care about is your numbers."'

And she's absolutely correct.

I personally agree with the judge's opinion but I don't think she was right in what she did. As already said, if he wants to go, let him go and find out the hard way.

There's no evidence, though, as far as I can see, that her ruling was made because of her anti-war opinion. False correlation, and all that.

Good judge. The child is a ward of the State. The State has every right to protect the child.

Even though the judge appears to be an asshat I would have to question the Full Metal Jacket comment.

Anyone who would use that movie as motivation to join the Marines most likely dosent have the maturity to make this decision.

He is 17. He can join without anyones say so in less than a year.

I think the Iraq War is a continuing mistake, but I think he should be allowed to join the military if he wishes. If the judge hated teen drivers, and ruled that the kid couldn't get his driver's license until he was 18, you'd probably hear an outcry, even if teens drive like maniacs and run over pedestrians.

If he's competent to stand trial as an adult if convicted of a crime, and the rules allow him to join the military, I think he should be able to do so.

/hmm, I probably should read the article now. :)

Besides, according to McCain, he's got like 99 years left to join up. There will still be people to kill later.

If the judge let the kid enlist and he got killed, there'd be this huge outcry about how underprivileged kids are being sucked from the foster system onto the military rosters. She was in a no-win situation. She was acting in loco parentis, and made a decision many parents would have made.

T.M.S.: Even though the judge appears to be an asshat I would have to question the Full Metal Jacket comment.

Anyone who would use that movie as motivation to join the Marines most likely dosent have the maturity to make this decision.

He is 17. He can join without anyones say so in less than a year.

EXACTLY in one farking year, in another article I read it was something like 4 months, he's free to join. This is another case of a teenager needing to do it NOW and can't wait until the proper time to do something.

Sir Roderick Glossop: If the judge let the kid enlist and he got killed, there'd be this huge outcry about how underprivileged kids are being sucked from the foster system onto the military rosters. She was in a no-win situation. She was acting in loco parentis, and made a decision many parents would have made.

Agreed - far easier for the judge to let him age out and then let the joining be truly his own decision. He only has to wait a year.

I can understand wanting the signing bonus. Though, if he says it's not about the signing bonus, can't he study hard and get physically fit on his own? I suppose the "locking in a job" (what, guaranteed MOS?) would be the hardest thing to lose.

If he's 18 and a full adult, no longer a ward of the state, surely there is some way he can enter as a regular adult and test into a good job? Or not? I thought they were pretty eager to get people to sign up these days, I just wonder if he can't negotiate something.

Just considering that regular adults are the majority of those signing up, aren't they?

/agreed there's no proof that the judge's antiwar opinions are the REASON for what she did

Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

Interesting. That movie pretty much sold me on NOT joining the military.

I sar Starship Troopers. That really sold me on wanting to be a space bug when I grew up.

Sadly, I am now just a librarian with way too much time at work to post on Fark

Lionel Mandrake: Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

Interesting. That movie pretty much sold me on NOT joining the military.

Ditto. It also made me suspect of Vietnamese whores and pudgy kids named Lawrence.

Doctor Funkenstein: Lionel Mandrake: Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

Interesting. That movie pretty much sold me on NOT joining the military.

Ditto. It also made me suspect of Vietnamese whores and pudgy kids named Lawrence.

Yeah that movie was supposed to make you think twice about the military. Something not right if that movie left you with the idea that war is fun.

I don't think the Marines need more wackos throwing puppies off cliffs. Can we raise the standards on the psych tests please?

itazurakko: /agreed there's no proof that the judge's antiwar opinions are the REASON for what she did

Good point. She made the same decision I would expect a lot of loving, concerned parents to make irrespective of their political opinions.

Gwendolyn: Can we raise the standards on the psych tests please?

Word. It has to be better for both this kid and the Marines if he takes time to talk to someone to ensure he's in the right frame of mind to do this. I'm sure there's more to it, but wanting to kick ass with Private Joker and Private Eightball isn't very rational judgment.

Stinky McButt: I personally agree with the judge's opinion but I don't think she was right in what she did. As already said, if he wants to go, let him go and find out the hard way.

That... (especially considering he had the support of his social worker and his foster parents)

CalvinMorallis: There's no evidence, though, as far as I can see, that her ruling was made because of her anti-war opinion. False correlation, and all that.

With a splash of that. Hearsay certainly points that way, but we'd need transcripts to know how it went down.

As for the Full Metal Jacket stuff, I think it's fine. Clearly the kid's an idiot, so he's perfect Marine material.

/I'm just kidding!
//My brother, whom I love and respect, is both a Marine and a genius
///Semper Fi!

no offense, but the kid's 17. He can't wait ONE FARKING YEAR before enlisting?

SilentStrider: He can't wait ONE FARKING YEAR before enlisting?

I think it's a question of being able to lock in the signing bonus and a specific job choice. They make it sound that way at least, I don't personally know if that's what the deal is though.

I oppose the war also, but if the kid wants to join and his foster parents approve and the military will accept him, then let the kid join. He'll be 18 in a few months anyway.

I personally oppose using incentives designed to pressure children under 18 into enlisting.

harryasaboy: I personally oppose using incentives designed to pressure children under 18 into enlisting.

But it's still ok to use high pressure sales pitches to get them to buy toys, cars and clothes, right?

As an official of the state, the judge has no business handing a juvenile over to the military. He can wait 'til he's 18 and do what he likes.

Sorry, kid.

The kid should have PT'd the judge until his asshole was sucking buttermilk. Or possibly gouged out his eyeballs and skullfarked him.

/get off my obstacle

FTFA: Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

Holy shiat, did he ever miss the point of that movie.

Hender: Wow, that's really crappy. I'm anti-war and have reservations about some of the tricks the military uses to get people to sign, but that whole story is farked. If the kid wants to sign up for the military, I say let him.

On the other hand, he could also just wait a year until he's 18 and just give his middle finger to the judge on the way in. It's not like he's going to be able to do anything until then, anyway.

There is absolutely no reason at all for the kid to sign up in the DEP. The DEP is a scam the military uses. It is affectively a "no down payment" offer. A person is not paid to be in the DEP. A person is REQUIRED to show up to meetings. The little shiat can go to those meetings w/o being in the DEP.

The only purpose for the DEP when a person is under 18 is to get kids in while they're scared about graduating HS and entering the world.

So he watched Full Metal Jacket and wanted to join the army? He's either a moron or mentally farked up. Army doesn't need any more people like that.

Broken9754: SilentStrider: He can't wait ONE FARKING YEAR before enlisting?

I think it's a question of being able to lock in the signing bonus and a specific job choice. They make it sound that way at least, I don't personally know if that's what the deal is though.

That is correct. But...do you seriously think that signing bonuses will be down in a year? Do you think they won't have even more positions available? The recruiters are not looking out for this kid's best interest. He would have better options in a year.

Well, the judge has a point. The war is f#cking stupid and the US military throws puppies off cliffs.

Weaver95: But it's still ok to use high pressure sales pitches to get them to buy toys, cars and clothes, right?

Nice try. I'm not biting.

Remove all Republicans: I wish the judge would stop everyone from joining the armed services. Frankly, anyone who wants to get themselves killed like this should immediately be put into a nuthouse until they get some sense knocked into them.

I think that if someone wants to join the military and knows what they're getting into when they sign up, then nobody has the 'right' to tell them otherwise.

This judge has no right to be a roadblock. If the kid wants to join the service, then he should be allowed to do so. The judge can sit him down, explain things and try to dissuade him from enlisting...but in the end it's his choice. And she's only delayed him a year and most likely strengthed his resolve to enlist, all while abusing the powers of her office to no good end.

How far are we going to go? Sure, you can say that recruiters are using underhanded tactics to advertise to kids....but then again, so does every corporation on wall street. So does every church in existence. So does every ideology that preaches to kids on a school campus. Freedom means letting people make choices you don't agree with....for me that means letting gay/lesbian groups try to recruit kids. For the lefties, that means letting the Marines recruit graduates.

Me so horny

SharkUW: That is correct. But...do you seriously think that signing bonuses will be down in a year? Do you think they won't have even more positions available? The recruiters are not looking out for this kid's best interest. He would have better options in a year.

Marines are not big on signing money. They actually tend to refer the money seekers to another branch.

\friend joined last year
\Twenty Nine Palms, not the core

harryasaboy: Weaver95: But it's still ok to use high pressure sales pitches to get them to buy toys, cars and clothes, right?

Nice try. I'm not biting.

just trying to understand where you draw the line. freedom for some, but not for others?

CalvinMorallis: I sar Starship Troopers. That really sold me on wanting to be a space bug when I grew up.

Same with me and Silence of the Lambs.

I'd join the air force or the navy, i like my hots and a cot too much methinks - hated camping as a kid

I signed up for the military when I was 17, I was not tricked or lied too, 17 is old enough for people to make their own decisions. I bet if he murdered someone he would be tried by the same judge as an adult. She is abusing her power. My recruiter was a nice guy who really helped me get into the job I wanted. My brother was 21 when he signed up for the Marines and his recruiter was one of the most stand up men I ever met. He wouldnt let people sign up for infantry unless their whole family was 100% for it. He still talks to my brother when he comes home 3 years later. I dont know why everyone things recruiters are soul less assholes, people have to know that if you sign up for the military you might get stuck in a shiatty place or have a shiatty job. Going in was the best thing I ever did, and my brother feels the same way. I went in before there was a war and to get my college paid for, into a computer job and 3 years later I was in Iraq. Did I blame my recriter for this? No.

Remove all Republicans: We already work to protect people from stupid decisions. We stop people from being paid less than the minimum wage, from taking dangerous drugs, from eating transfat, from not saving for their retirement, and soon enough from making other poor health decisions. We should stop people from making the most dangerous decision of their lives: to trust the military with their lives.

I hope that's a troll. I really do.

Weaver95: just trying to understand where you draw the line. freedom for some, but not for others? troll. Again.

Because joining the military is similar to buying toys.

She expressed concern that recruiters Presidential candidates treat recruits voters "like another warm body," he said. "She said, `All you care about is your vote numbers."'.

I guess you could fill a lot things in her statement. Does a car salesman care about you or a car sales, etc.

/ Kid was abandoned by his parents at age two. That's tough to have your parents not want you.

The judge is taking the role of "parent" in this, as he has no real parents to speak for him. I think this is a bad idea, because a judge is supposed to keep opinions out of their judgements which is clearly hard to do when put in a situation like this.

Her role should be following the law and rules, not preaching politics. So i guess i'm saying she shouldnt be giving this decision. A social worker should be the one to give/not give consent, then the judge should do whatever the law permits/does not permit.

easy as pie.

Shawn Sage long dreamed of joining the military, and watching "Full Metal Jacket" last year really sold him on becoming a Marine.

Yeah, just what Iraq needs: another foreign psycho that pops a boner at the thought of playing war. I thank the judge for the reasonable ruling, but if he really wants to go to Iraq, he should think about joining Blackwater, he'd fit right in.

harryasaboy: Because joining the military is similar to buying toys.

To some people, that's true. Ever see the wackos trying to regulate toy gun sales?

My point, in case you missed it, was that we subject kids to all sorts of high pressure sales tactics almost from birth. Kids see TV ads and all sorts of spiffy looking ads on the internet all their lives. This judge just now notices that ONE group is advertising to kids? And just now decides that such high pressure sales tactics are wrong?

well ok then. let's assume she's just been asleep for the past 20 years. What next? I expect her to stop any and all groups from recruiting on any high school campus.

margarito bandito: SharkUW: That is correct. But...do you seriously think that signing bonuses will be down in a year? Do you think they won't have even more positions available? The recruiters are not looking out for this kid's best interest. He would have better options in a year.

Marines are not big on signing money. They actually tend to refer the money seekers to another branch.

\friend joined last year
\Twenty Nine Palms, not the core

Then why did they offer the kid 10k? Oh, maybe because they want to get some kid to enlist before he realizes there are better options....

Dumbass kid could go to a tech school for 2 years, get an associates, and if he still wants the military...have the military pay off his old loans and enter as an e-3 because of his college credits.

Why the hell would a person join the dep at 17...

Weaver95

uhhhh one involves a worst case scenario that your toy breaks, the other's worst case (and likely) scenario involves dying

tad bit of difference there lou

Weaver95: harryasaboy: Because joining the military is similar to buying toys.

To some people, that's true. Ever see the wackos trying to regulate toy gun sales?

My point, in case you missed it, was that we subject kids to all sorts of high pressure sales tactics almost from birth. Kids see TV ads and all sorts of spiffy looking ads on the internet all their lives. This judge just now notices that ONE group is advertising to kids? And just now decides that such high pressure sales tactics are wrong?

well ok then. let's assume she's just been asleep for the past 20 years. What next? I expect her to stop any and all groups from recruiting on any high school campus.

This is not the purchasing of a toy. This is a multi-year contract that impacts not only his income during that period, but his quality of life and the inherent dangers of a guaranteed deployment. The Marines are asking for this to occur at a time in the kid's life before he has been able to even try working a regular job. They're trying to take advantage of him simply because they can...

fark them. They can wait. There's nothing stopping this kid from hanging out and training.

Weaver95: harryasaboy: Because joining the military is similar to buying toys.

To some people, that's true. Ever see the wackos trying to regulate toy gun sales?

My point, in case you missed it, was that we subject kids to all sorts of high pressure sales tactics almost from birth. Kids see TV ads and all sorts of spiffy looking ads on the internet all their lives. This judge just now notices that ONE group is advertising to kids? And just now decides that such high pressure sales tactics are wrong?

well ok then. let's assume she's just been asleep for the past 20 years. What next? I expect her to stop any and all groups from recruiting on any high school campus.

For the same reason you are not allowed to target children and teenagers with advertising for Smokes and Booze. Before you hit a certain level of brain development, you are especially vulnerable to exploitative advertising. And yes, there is mounting pressure to ban exploitative advertising for toys, food, etc.

Bored Horde: Weaver95: harryasaboy: Because joining the military is similar to buying toys.

To some people, that's true. Ever see the wackos trying to regulate toy gun sales?

My point, in case you missed it, was that we subject kids to all sorts of high pressure sales tactics almost from birth. Kids see TV ads and all sorts of spiffy looking ads on the internet all their lives. This judge just now notices that ONE group is advertising to kids? And just now decides that such high pressure sales tactics are wrong?

well ok then. let's assume she's just been asleep for the past 20 years. What next? I expect her to stop any and all groups from recruiting on any high school campus.

For the same reason you are not allowed to target children and teenagers with advertising for Smokes and Booze. Before you hit a certain level of brain development, you are especially vulnerable to exploitative advertising. And yes, there is mounting pressure to ban exploitative advertising for toys, food, etc.

I'd be for banning beer ads during sports games. NFL likes to show kids the fun time when drinking beer.