The problems have led to the sort of lax enforcement that allowed Southwest Airlines Co. to fly at least 117 aircraft past mandatory inspection deadlines, said Rep. James Oberstar, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman.

*crosses Southwest off usable list of airlines*

Pocket Ninja: The problems have led to the sort of lax enforcement that allowed Southwest Airlines Co. to fly at least 117 aircraft past mandatory inspection deadlines, said Rep. James Oberstar, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman.

*crosses Southwest off usable list of airlines*

That just happens to be the one that got caught.

Sleeping Monkey: That just happens to be the one that got caught.

Sshh. Don't interfere with my blissful ignorance. I fly far too much to think otherwise.

The airlines want to rid the skies of everybody but them. Their lobby, the Air Transport Association, has been pushing the FAA, Congress, and the Senate for looser regulation, more control over the airspace, and European-style user fees for general aviation, which just about killed GA in Europe and Australia. The ATA is also pushing DHS to mandate airport-style screening procedures at all GA facilities. So the dinky little flight school in BFE would have to have a metal detector and x-ray setup costing more than their entire flight line.

Thank Cthulhu for AOPA and EAA. Not all lobbies are bad.

[HERO]

You're not just shouting in the wind, StJohn.
I joined AOPA because I support this lobby fully.
In fact, I joined twice.

Every regulatory agency cozies up to its industry under Bushco, so I don't see how this surprises anyone. Corporate profits > your safety, duh.

If you watched the Aviator, you know what's what

FAA lost-luggage storage area:

He'll just fly on a corporate jet instead...

Starting with the TSA.

Subby, do you actually think someone who has been a congressman since 1974 actually uses commercial air travel?

Government and Business too close and its a detriment to the American people?

I'm shocked.

FTFA: Southwest has never had a crash-related fatality aboard one of its planes, although a boy was killed in 2005 when his family's car was struck by a Southwest jet that overran a runway during a snowstorm at Chicago's Midway Airport. Federal investigators cited pilot error.

I agree we need safety inspections on this shiat as much as the next person. fact remains nothing has happened (yet)

Some congressman was late to a stripper party in Vegas and now wants to take it out on the airline that made him late. All this will lead to in the end is even more exorbitant prices on tix.

the dinky little flight school in BFE would have to have a metal detector and x-ray setup costing more than their entire flight line

Just what this world needs. More TSA Gangstas Link (new window) NSFW Language

DrForrester
Every regulatory agency cozies up to its industry under Bushco, so I don't see how this surprises anyone. Corporate profits > your safety, duh.
are you stupid or what? not everything is bushes fault. not saying hes perfect but damn your ignorance is blinding us all. FAA doesn't follow airlines around like most people think they do and besides the mechanics that signed their names to faulty maintenace will get in trouble more than you will ever hear about. not to be all soap boxy but dont talk about what you dont know about

asstronaut: You're not just shouting in the wind, StJohn.
I joined AOPA because I support this lobby fully.
In fact, I joined twice.

I see I'm not the only one sending cash AOPA's way. Good to know.

Sleeping Monkey: Pocket Ninja: The problems have led to the sort of lax enforcement that allowed Southwest Airlines Co. to fly at least 117 aircraft past mandatory inspection deadlines, said Rep. James Oberstar, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman.

*crosses Southwest off usable list of airlines*

That just happens to be the one that got caught.

Exactly, and to their credit they have one of the best saftey record, passenger satisfaction record, and on-time record.

Kettle - check
Pot - check

stjohn: So the dinky little flight school in BFE would have to have a metal detector and x-ray setup costing more than their entire flight line.

Yeah, dinky little flight schools have never played a role in terrorist activities. We wouldn't want to be doing anything that might interfere with their training foreigners how to fly. "I don't need the landing lesson, efendi."

Pretty much the standard airline stuff. FTFA:

Oberstar said the law requires that planes be grounded until they are in compliance. The Southwest planes continued to fly with full knowledge of an FAA supervisor, Oberstar said.

Sounds like someone needs to do a little time for jeopardizing public safety.

Southwest Chief Executive Gary Kelly said Friday that the penalty was unfair, calling the missed inspections "a gap in our documentation" that the airline voluntarily reported to the FAA.

So you screwed up but think its unfair that you are being fined for breaking the FARs?

Yup. Typical airlines.

/time to go fly the general public around for a few days.

NutWrench: Starting with the TSA.

This.

/my name seems to be a "possible match" to someone on the terror watchlist
//can still fly, but can't check in online anymore

iron_city_ap: Just what this world needs. More TSA Gangstas Link (new window) NSFW Language

I've seen a lot of crap on Youtube. That was not crap. You win the internets.

Odd, I feel the same way about Congress.

Once the TSA is fixed, I'll think about flying other than when I'm forced to.

lajimi: Odd, I feel the same way about Congress.

THIS!

I completely agree with the fact that the FAA has some serious issues. Flight/duty/rest regulations for airline pilots are over 50 years old and completely unsafe and outdated.

I'm an airline pilot. In the last 3 days, I was on duty for 39 hours and in the two nights only got a total of 7.5 hours of sleep (and I didn't spend any time screwing around, I spent every minute available to me to sleep in bed).

The news freaks out when they find out that a pilot was sleeping on a flight. Well, newsflash everyone, it happens EVERY SINGLE DAY. Guaranteed if you fly more than a couple times a year, you've been on a flight where your pilot has been asleep.

It doesn't cause crashes often because there are so many safety factors built into aviation, you might have to have 10 things go wrong for a crash to occur. But, on many many flights, 7, 8, or 9 of these things have gone wrong and they barely scoot by. Thats a little too close for comfort for me.

Rodeodoc: stjohn: So the dinky little flight school in BFE would have to have a metal detector and x-ray setup costing more than their entire flight line.

Yeah, dinky little flight schools have never played a role in terrorist activities. We wouldn't want to be doing anything that might interfere with their training foreigners how to fly. "I don't need the landing lesson, efendi."

You forgot the bit where they reported the shifty foreigners to the FBI and the FBI blew them off. Exactly what is the point of installing metal detectors in a flight school?

Pot, this is my friend kettle.

Subby, do you actually think someone who has been a congressman since 1974 actually uses commercial air travel?

Yes, actually, they all use commercial air travel. If not, their opponent come November can point out the use and the constituent's paying for the uber-comfort at their expense. The only ones who use private are the really self-important high ones in the political party hierarchy who can be considered VIPs.

I'd be surprised if it was others including SW. SouthWest is a discount airline. You cannot run airlines at discounts like other businesses. Fuel, maintenance, pilot salaries, all that are pretty much standard set rates. The only huge difference, economically speaking, between the airlines are the color on the outside of the fuselage and the frills when it comes to service- dinner, alcohol, etc. SW decided that it wanted to go lower to cut competition but had no other area to cut costs other than skip maintenance because they still had to make profits. If only the CEO's pay had been cut instead...

flyf15, I'm a 22yo student pilot who wants to go ATP. I've got 6 hours flying VFR, 1.5 simulated instruments, and 11 landings. What's your email, so I may ask you a few questions about the career and the current state of the hiring-cycle?

Sleeping Monkey: Pocket Ninja: The problems have led to the sort of lax enforcement that allowed Southwest Airlines Co. to fly at least 117 aircraft past mandatory inspection deadlines, said Rep. James Oberstar, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman.

*crosses Southwest off usable list of airlines*

That just happens to be the one that got caught.

Couldn't that mean they're so bad they got caught? The other guys are at least paying enough attention to not get caught. (I doubt it, but I can' hope, can't I?)


Similar to speeding tickets... A cop buddy of mine said if he sees 10 speeders, and 9 slow down, he goes for that last one because they're not paying enough attention to the road to see him approaching. The other 9 are at least watching.

stjohn:

Thank Cthulhu for AOPA and EAA. Not all lobbies are bad.

We need to pay Steve Boyer much more.

Trance750: Sleeping Monkey: Pocket Ninja: The problems have led to the sort of lax enforcement that allowed Southwest Airlines Co. to fly at least 117 aircraft past mandatory inspection deadlines, said Rep. James Oberstar, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman.

*crosses Southwest off usable list of airlines*

That just happens to be the one that got caught.

Exactly, and to their credit they have one of the best saftey record, passenger satisfaction record, and on-time record.

Doesn't matter. They got caught holding the bag, and show the FAA's bias against GA. If this brings to light a much bigger problem....well.....it's gotta start somewhere.

CnFlght: I'd be surprised if it was others including SW. SouthWest is a discount airline. You cannot run airlines at discounts like other businesses. Fuel, maintenance, pilot salaries, all that are pretty much standard set rates. The only huge difference, economically speaking, between the airlines are the color on the outside of the fuselage and the frills when it comes to service- dinner, alcohol, etc. SW decided that it wanted to go lower to cut competition but had no other area to cut costs other than skip maintenance because they still had to make profits. If only the CEO's pay had been cut instead...

Actually, part of the reason Southwest is cheap compared to the other airlines is that they hedged their fuel contracts when fuel was cheap. When those contracts expire, ticket prices will rise.

The FAA is simultaneously tasked with promoting and regulating the airline industry. It's a clear conflict of interest.

CaptainCaveman: Sleeping Monkey: Pocket Ninja: The problems have led to the sort of lax enforcement that allowed Southwest Airlines Co. to fly at least 117 aircraft past mandatory inspection deadlines, said Rep. James Oberstar, Transportation and Infrastructure Committee chairman.

*crosses Southwest off usable list of airlines*

That just happens to be the one that got caught.

Couldn't that mean they're so bad they got caught? The other guys are at least paying enough attention bribes to not get caught. (I doubt it, but I can' hope, can't I?)


Similar to speeding tickets... A cop buddy of mine said if he sees 10 speeders, and 9 slow down, he goes for that last one because they're not paying enough attention to the road to see him approaching. The other 9 are at least watching.

FTFY

Or we could have a free market in air travel, so that there would actually be competition for customers and airlines would go out of business if they had a bad reputation instead of being bailed out...but that's scary, right?

I'm glad the government is looking out for my interests. Won't be flying Southwest anytime soon. Never liked flying into Midway anyhow.

lajimi: Odd, I feel the same way about Congress.

THIS!

YixilTesiphon: Or we could have a free market in air travel, so that there would actually be competition for customers and airlines would go out of business if they had a bad reputation instead of being bailed out...but that's scary, right?

Yes, it would be scary. If the airline went out of business thousands of people are left holding worthless tickets. You can sue, but...the airline went out of business! No money. And then all sorts of good capitalist people start screaming that the government should have done something.

/We want it both ways.....
//Capitalism with tight government controls.

TooMuchToDo: asstronaut: You're not just shouting in the wind, StJohn.
I joined AOPA because I support this lobby fully.
In fact, I joined twice.

I see I'm not the only one sending cash AOPA's way. Good to know.

Thirded. Love the AOPA.

rancid weasel: Rodeodoc: stjohn: So the dinky little flight school in BFE would have to have a metal detector and x-ray setup costing more than their entire flight line.

Yeah, dinky little flight schools have never played a role in terrorist activities. We wouldn't want to be doing anything that might interfere with their training foreigners how to fly. "I don't need the landing lesson, efendi."

You forgot the bit where they reported the shifty foreigners to the FBI and the FBI blew them off. Exactly what is the point of installing metal detectors in a flight school?

Man... I've been coming in too late to catch the idiots before others do it... So... THIS.

/I feel dirty

so Amtrak is safer?

DrForrester 2008-03-08 01:40:44 PM

Every regulatory agency cozies up to its industry under Bushco, so I don't see how this surprises anyone. Corporate profits > your safety, duh.

Yet another demonstration of idiocy, sheeeeesh!

Rapmaster2000 2008-03-08 03:26:22 PM

The FAA is simultaneously tasked with promoting and regulating the airline industry. It's a clear conflict of interest.

And the system works so well we have the best and safest aviation industry in the world and every other country uses our rules.

Yes, let the FAA fine Southwest 10.2 million... Then next year, the government can 'bail out' the airlines yet again with 2-3 billion dollars in free tax money. ...This year's pointless redesign of airport palaces (I mean terminals) will be even more luxurious.

FTFA "Any aircraft that does not comply with FARs - federal aviation regulations - is not safe to fly," Oberstar said.

Yet another amazingly ignorant statement . . . I am in the industry and getting a kick out of . . .

If the industry strictly followed the stunningly basic rules of the FAA, planes would be falling out of the skys weekly. Planes don't crash because of FAA oversight, they don't crash because it is not good for business. Plain and simple.

iron_city_ap: More TSA Gangstas Link (new window) NSFW Language

More amusing than expected, +1.

worthlessjuan: Every regulatory agency cozies up to its industry under Bushco, so I don't see how this surprises anyone. Corporate profits > your safety, duh.

Yet another demonstration of idiocy, sheeeeesh!

No, he's right. Lax enforcement of all laws that limit corporations has been one of the biggest hallmarks of the Bush Administration.

Bucky Katt: so Amtrak is safer?

Heh. Nope:

* A lot of the freight trackage Amtrak runs over that owned by CSX isn't in compliance with federal standards. The FRA knows about this too, but is letting CSX 'work the problem out'. This has been an issue for about 10 years now, and has been a factor in a few (fatal) derailments.

* Amtrak's been known to send crews out that don't know how to operate the equipment they're driving. This was a factor in a collision about 3 years ago, where the engineer literally didn't know how to operate the brakes on the train.

* Amtrak's electrification system in the northeast has known problems, such as circuit breakers that don't operate when they should. on top o that, a lot of Amtrak's substations aren't properly fenced, and even if they are, crews are known to leave the gates open after working there.

* Crew discipline is horrid. There's been fights in locomotive cabs, drunk conductors, crews sleeping on the job, disabling safety equipment, etc.

* The Acelas are known to have stability problems at higher speeds, but are allowed to operate at those speeds anyway. Their track dynamics are so bad that no other country in the (industrialized) world would certify them for operation at the speeds they run at.

* The FRA once sidelined a big chunk of Amtrak's fleet for a while because safety inspections weren't being carried out.

* Amtrak's diesel fleet has, for the last year, been suffering from traction motors that lock up without warning, locking the axle they're attached to. Amtrak says they're 'working with the vendor' on the problem. No other RR in the US has been having this 'issue'.

* The signaling system around Newark NJ and New York has been long suspected to have what one industry person told me were 'severe problems'. So far, there hasn't been a crash. Yet.

BTW, of all the rail carriers in the US, Amtrak's safety record is by far the worst, and is horrid in comparison to European, Japanese, or even British operators.

DrForrester: Every regulatory agency cozies up to its industry under Bushco, so I don't see how this surprises anyone. Corporate profits > your safety, duh.

An airline (or any business for that matter) that has an unusual number of problems isn't going to be well received by the marketplace, and airplane crashes (or even near crashes) are rather conspicuous. So the airlines' "corporate profits" rely on their ability to guarantee passengers' safety.

Kwisatzhaderach: FAA lost-luggage storage area:

I think I see my sled from here.

Oh dear old frien....argghghhhrr..gaaawwwkk...oohhhh...(kthunk...roll, roll, roll)

Steve Zodiac: YixilTesiphon: Or we could have a free market in air travel, so that there would actually be competition for customers and airlines would go out of business if they had a bad reputation instead of being bailed out...but that's scary, right?

Yes, it would be scary. If the airline went out of business thousands of people are left holding worthless tickets. You can sue, but...the airline went out of business! No money. And then all sorts of good capitalist people start screaming that the government should have done something.

/We want it both ways.....
//Capitalism with tight government controls.

And all we end up with is tight government controls. Or, rather, government forcing upon industry controls the industry has already implemented, taking credit for it, then refusing to allow change when the industry comes up with better solutions. See also: child labor laws.