"The people of Florida voted on Jan. 29," Crist said. "They voted legally. And some party boss in Washington decided that they were not going to have the people's voice be heard. Are you kidding me? This is the will of the people. It should be respected."

No, they ALL agreed to it. Florida went ahead and pulled yet another sh*tty, retarded political stunt. F*ck Florida. They should have lost their statehood a long time ago.

American elections amaze and confuse me... and they seem to go on forever.

OlafTheBent: American elections amaze and confuse me... and they seem to go on forever.

yeah...and after this past Tuesday, it's STILL gonna keep going on and on and on and on...

Getting quite disgruntled at this point. :P

Florida was warned ahead of time that if they moved up their primary they would lose their delegates. The Republican legislature decided to move it up anyway, the Republican governor didn't mind it then. So how is it the DNC's fault for going through with the penalty. If they expect states to listen in the future they can't let this slide.

/Florida resident

We got an early-adopter beta test version of Democracy, one we developed ourselves, by some local developers who were certain they had all the problems inherent in allowing the public a vote solved. This was over 200 years ago. As the rest of the world continued to develop and deploy new versions of Democracy, we stuck to our increasingly antiquated version. As America becomes less and less relevant in the coming centuries, we look forward to holding onto our 200 years or so of awesome history, including our quaint colonial style elections played out 50 times every cycle. And one day, as Euro is the worlds' currency and the Chinese hold most of our debt, we'll look fondly back on the centuries where we were more than just a convenient landing strip for aliens.

Has anyone polled the voters in MI and FL to see what they think?

xanadian: yeah...and after this past Tuesday, it's STILL gonna keep going on and on and on and on...

Getting quite disgruntled at this point. :P

I'm with ya on that. Here's a thought: How about everybody just show up one day and vote and then count 'em up and that's that? Nah, that'd be too easy.

Why would Crist, a Republican, be pushing for Florida's "support" of Hillary to be counted?

Doesn't the Clinton camp realize that if they get their bullshiat "nomination" for Clinton counted without a revote, then all they have really done is alienate all the Florida Obama backers?

If the Jan 29 vote stands, the FL Democratic party is split and McCain takes the delegates in November. Heckuva Job, Hillary!

Empanda: Has anyone polled the voters in MI and FL to see what they think?

What does it matter? They were blackballed by mutual agreement.

Hillary wouldn't be saying this if she were 105 delegates ahead of Obama. She doesn't like to follow rules, even when she helped establish those rules.

That is hypocritical.

If she can't follow simple campaign rules, why should any American believe she would abide by the presidential oath?

Haven't we had enough of Bush's antics yet? Do Hillary supporters want another Bush for four more years?

/Ron Paul '08

Unright: Why would Crist, a Republican, be pushing for Florida's "support" of Hillary to be counted?

If the Jan 29 vote stands, the FL Democratic party is split and McCain takes the delegates in November.

You just answered your own question.

Empanda: Has anyone polled the voters in MI and FL to see what they think?

If I was a Florida voter I would want my vote to count. But that's hardly the point, they broke the rules, no do-overs! It changes the landscape too much.

/kind of ironic that they moved it up so they would have more influence.

Generation_D:
too obscure

Flab: Unright: Why would Crist, a Republican, be pushing for Florida's "support" of Hillary to be counted?

If the Jan 29 vote stands, the FL Democratic party is split and McCain takes the delegates in November.

You just answered your own question.

Its a trap!

Empanda: Has anyone polled the voters in MI and FL to see what they think?

Almost every recent election has Florida cocking up something. 2000, 2006 Sarasota, and now this. We're being conditioned for something but I don't think it's for lustrous hair.

Time to Bobbit Florida.

ODDwhun: Florida was warned ahead of time that if they moved up their primary they would lose their delegates. The Republican legislature decided to move it up anyway, the Republican governor didn't mind it then. So how is it the DNC's fault for going through with the penalty. If they expect states to listen in the future they can't let this slide.

/Florida resident

Because the Florida Dems agreed to it? Although I love how now McCain's buddy Crist is trying to get the primary to count. I love this state.

/Florida resident & lobbyist

flaEsq: Almost every recent election has Florida cocking up something. 2000, 2006 Sarasota, and now this. We're being conditioned for something but I don't think it's for lustrous hair.

Maybe to prepare people for the nuttiness before they move here to retire.

I'm behind Obama and voted for him in the sham primary. I'd welcome the opportunity for second one. He can only eat into Hillary's prior numbers here.

FLMountainMan: Because the Florida Dems agreed to rolled over on it?

I think that's slightly more accurate. Hey, at least they're consistent with the national party!

But to be fair, it did put the state party in a bind. They should have fought it harder. It ultimately put them in a position where they had to decide whether to violate state law or party rules. Sorry, but the party is a non-legislative body. State rules carried the day.

Dean thought he could let it slide without realizing how close the reace would be. I give him a big demerit for forgetting Florida's capacity to screw with an election ;-)

Diogenes: I'm behind Obama and voted for him in the sham primary. I'd welcome the opportunity for second one. He can only eat into Hillary's prior numbers here.

The $25M pricetag will likely mean no mulligans for the Florida primary. That and the fact that Howard Dean has little interest in casting the spotlight on Florida's hamhanded approach once again.

I don't think all the footstomping and appeals to "democracy" in the world can salvage Florida's Dem delegates. It was a stupid move, the consequences of which were known when they agreed to it.

You made your stupid bed, now lie in it. Rest your stupid head on your big, stupid pillow and keep warm with your big, stupid blankets. Stupid Florida.

Sorry FL (and MI) but you broke the rules, now deal with it.

FL and MI delegates should not be counted.

SAY IT!! PRESIDENT HILLARY CLINTON. Live it, love it, get use to it.

Diogenes: Maybe to prepare people for the nuttiness before they move here to retire.

Other than a frontal lobotomy and the surgical removal of high expectations can anyone really prepare to move to Florida?

I'm behind Obama and voted for him in the sham primary. I'd welcome the opportunity for second one. He can only eat into Hillary's prior numbers here.

I don't think we're gonna get it. It could be an interesting convention.

Why do they have a pictre of Leslie Neilson with that article?

Diogenes: I'm behind Obama and voted for him in the sham primary. I'd welcome the opportunity for second one. He can only eat into Hillary's prior numbers here.

Especially with no John Edwards on the ballot.
However, Hillary is pushing for the Florida and Michigan delegates to go as they are rather than having a new vote...

Leslie Nielsen, rather.

Obviously I have no evidence to support this, but I'm pretty sure if things were reversed.. Obama trailing and had won FL & MI, we'd be seeing a lot more "will of the people" posts.

I don't care either way. I'm here for the train-wreck convention.

quickdraw: Time to Bobbit Florida.

Are you sure we really want to give Panama City and Florida State full control over two U.S. Senators?

Either don't count the delegates, or redo the vote. The current vote totals are not true representations of the will of the people. The only ones who voted are the ones with too much time on their hands. I have a job, and I vote. If you tell me my vote isn't going to count, I'm going to go to work and not waste my time putting in symbolic support. I suspect most of the people who voted were the elderly(nothing better to do) and the dumbasses (didn't realize their vote won't count).

Dear Florida,

DIAF.

Signed:
--Everybody else.

Can we give FL to Raul Castro yet?

If Hillary gets this nomination I will become a strident McCain backer. They're the same creature (both the AIPAC annointed), after all.

No rewards for shenanigans.

Fark Hillary.

JimmyTheHutt: Can we give FL to Raul Castro yet?

I'm pretty sure we already have.

quickdraw: Time to Bobbit Florida.




We don't want them to come back stronger and dumberer than ever-er.

Florida voters KNEW their votes wouldn't count going into the voting booth. I'm betting that younger, more informed (Obama) voters didn't even bother going to the polls. I know I didn't bother going.

I would be surprised if the results turned out the same.

fosborb: quickdraw: Time to Bobbit Florida.

Are you sure we really want to give Panama City and Florida State full control over two U.S. Senators?

Greatest idea ever. What, you think Mel and Bill are all that great?

/Actually liked Nelson until I gave a considerable chunk of change (for me)to his campaign which he gave to another candidate.

MugzyBrown: Obviously I have no evidence to support this, but I'm pretty sure if things were reversed.. Obama trailing and had won FL & MI, we'd be seeing a lot more "will of the people" posts.

There is some evidence against your assertion, though. Clinton has been attempting to change the process through talking points (MI & FL), threatening to sue (TX), or actually suing (NV) every time she seems about to lose a big state. Obama, who's actually lost most of the big states, has not.

Obama would have campaigned against Hillary in FL & MI to get more votes than her in those states. If we're willing to hypothesize Obama flagrantly breaking campaign rules, we might as well also explore Obama's NBA prospects if he were, hypothetically, 7' tall.

tricycleracer: Florida voters KNEW their votes wouldn't count going into the voting booth. I'm betting that younger, more informed (Obama) voters didn't even bother going to the polls. I know I didn't bother going.

I would be surprised if the results turned out the same.

Something tells me you aren't too familiar with political science or the Obama platform.

Diogenes: Sorry, but the party is a non-legislative body. State rules carried the day.

Interestingly - that simply isn't true. The state only has jurisdiction over the general - not the primary.

Massa Damnata: We don't want them to come back stronger and dumberer than ever-er.
I LOL'd

Empanda: Has anyone polled the voters in MI and FL to see what they think?

what a novel idea.

no, they haven't.

tricycleracer: Florida voters KNEW their votes wouldn't count going into the voting booth. I'm betting that younger, more informed (Obama) voters didn't even bother going to the polls. I know I didn't bother going.

I would be surprised if the results turned out the same.

I went and cast for Obama. But mostly out of fear of what Hillary might try and pull - like get the delegates seated as is, with the strong majority going her way.


fosborb: There is some evidence against your assertion, though. Clinton has been attempting to change the process through talking points (MI & FL), threatening to sue (TX), or actually suing (NV) every time she seems about to lose a big state. Obama, who's actually lost most of the big states, has not.

Funny how it was worth suing over when her victory seemed in jeopardy. But now that's she's won, it's totally OK for Texas to have an f-ed up process.

Message: "Your welfare and interests only count if you're behind ME."

FLMountainMan: tricycleracer: Florida voters KNEW their votes wouldn't count going into the voting booth. I'm betting that younger, more informed (Obama) voters didn't even bother going to the polls. I know I didn't bother going.

I would be surprised if the results turned out the same.

Something tells me you aren't too familiar with political science or the Obama platform.

It's clear from exit polls across the country that younger voters, more informed voters (watch debates, read news), and more educated voters tend to favor Obama.

Clinton has feminism, racism, and name recognition on her side.

FLMountainMan: tricycleracer: Florida voters KNEW their votes wouldn't count going into the voting booth. I'm betting that younger, more informed (Obama) voters didn't even bother going to the polls. I know I didn't bother going.

I would be surprised if the results turned out the same.

Something tells me you aren't too familiar with political science or the Obama platform.

Something tells me you're not too familiar with this campaign season;Obama's younger crowd are breaking conventional practices.

What a mess. Good jorb, FL - working hard to screw up another election!

/Michigan gets the assist

Diogenes: Funny how it was worth suing over when her victory seemed in jeopardy. But now that's she's won, it's totally OK for Texas to have an f-ed up process.

The Texas rhetoric was just BS in the end. Clinton's been using the specter of 2000 FL and 2004 OH clusterfarks to rally her base. She's saying, "look, something's farked in these states and if it's close, we're going to have to go to court to make sure it all works out... so make sure it isn't close." Coming from behind, it's the only way she can hope to catch up, and I'm sure it's driving Dean nuts. The last thing the DNC wants is a constant reminder of failed elections when only in 2006 Dean turned it around for the national party. And the best part is, Clinton isn't even coming from behind. I mean, she is in total delegates, but in every state that Clinton has used these tactics, they were absolute Clinton strongholds until Obama got there and started talking to people. She isn't even touching the states where Obama has a strong base (Bill tried to in SC and it ripped her campaign apart -- after that, they turned into states that "don't matter").

Clinton is only threatening to nuke established processes in states that are entirely hers to lose.

Florida or Michigan wouldn't change anything, think it wouldn't be another 50/50 basically? Hillary only won 50% of the Florida vote last time and there was 3 other people on the ballot too.

And Michigan? The state that really had only Hillary on it and she still got only 55% of the vote... Seriously, had Obama been on that and campaigning in either state, it wouldn't be 50/50 at all, he's be either winning or the numbers so even it wouldn't help Hillary at all.

Look how well she did by her "wins" in Texas and Ohio, the two states she said would be her ace in the hole... In the end, she came out of Tuesday with 4 more delegates than Obama... Ohhhh... 4... wow... If she keeps that up with the next 12 states, she'll have a grand total of 48 more delegates and still be so far behind Obama it will be sick.

Crist must be loving this.

If the delegates go with the jan vote, it's huge for Hillary, helping her win (=Dem fail) or prolong the primary (=Dem fail). If there's a new primary it'll cost the DNC 25mil from their war chest (=Dem fail). Watch him work against a cheaper caucus, as it doesn't result in any of the above.

/fark FL

diamond2a: If there's a new primary it'll cost the DNC 25mil from their war chest

That $25M comes at the expense of the tax payers, not the DNC. And Dean was very clear this morning on CNN that he had very little interest in revisiting Florida or Michigan by way of subsidizing another primary.

If Crist is willing to eat the price, then more power to him. Otherwise, he needs to take his populous bullshiat and go away.

moralpanic: FLMountainMan: tricycleracer: Florida voters KNEW their votes wouldn't count going into the voting booth. I'm betting that younger, more informed (Obama) voters didn't even bother going to the polls. I know I didn't bother going.

I would be surprised if the results turned out the same.

Something tells me you aren't too familiar with political science or the Obama platform.

Something tells me you're not too familiar with this campaign season;Obama's younger crowd are breaking conventional practices.

Oh lord, I've riled up the Obamaniacs. Here-

HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE HOPE CHANGE YES WE CAN YES WE CAN...[ad nauseum]

Feel better now, a little more soothed? Big Daddy Obama will hush away all of your white guilt, don't worry.

I'm actually a democrat, but think Obama's way too cozy with unions and is far too liberal, and not on the issues I want him to be. But hey, who cares about the issues right? He's a handsome guy!