THEY LIE TO BRUCE! THAT MAKE BRUCE MAD!

Lizzie?

OK, so how much radiation are we talking about? In the US at least, the EPA and OSHA have very low radiation limits. TFA article doesn't give the exposure level.

Data from Here (PDF (new window)

2.5 millirem dose:
Cosmic radiation dose to a person on a one-way flight from New York to Los Angeles.

10 millirem dose:
One chest x-ray using modern equipment.

25 millirem dose:
Yearly exposure limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency for people who live near nuclear power plants.

60 - 80 millirem dose:
Average yearly radiation dose from cosmic radiation to people who live in the Rocky Mountain States

100 millirem dose:
Yearly limit from all sources of human-made radiation (non-radiation worker) set by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC).

160 millirem dose:
Yearly dose to the average flight-crew members from cosmic radiation.

300 millirem dose:
Average yearly dose to people in the U.S. (background radiation).

5 rem dose:
Yearly limit for radiation workers set by the NRC (external and internal).

25 rem dose:
EPA guideline for voluntary maximum radiation dose to emergency workers for non-lifesaving work during a reactor emergency. Assumed to be a once-in-a-lifetime event.

75 rem dose:
EPA guideline for maximum radiation dose to emergency workers volunteering for lifesaving work.


50-200 rem:
At the lower end of this range, the symptoms of acute radiation syndrome: anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea can be delayed as much as a few weeks. A slight decrease in blood cell count can be noted. Survival with or without treatment is almost certain. At the upper end of this range, symptoms are more severe and early symptoms of bone marrow damage are noted. Survival without treatment is probable; and almost certain if treatment is given.

200-500 rem:
Anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea occur sooner and are more severe. Moderate to severe bone marrow damage and slight intestinal damage occurs. Without treatment, death is likely; survival with treatment is possible.

500-600 rem:
Severe anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea occur. Moderate to severe bone marrow and intestinal damage and hypotension. Death is likely.

So for all we know, the radiation levels could be safe, just higher than the governments extremely low limits.

Crosshair: OK, so how much radiation are we talking about? In the US at least, the EPA and OSHA have very low radiation limits. TFA article doesn't give the exposure level.

Data from Here (PDF (new window)

2.5 millirem dose:
Cosmic radiation dose to a person on a one-way flight from New York to Los Angeles.

10 millirem dose:
One chest x-ray using modern equipment.

25 millirem dose:
Yearly exposure limit set by the Environmental Protection Agency for people who live near nuclear power plants.

60 - 80 millirem dose:
Average yearly radiation dose from cosmic radiation to people who live in the Rocky Mountain States

100 millirem dose:
Yearly limit from all sources of human-made radiation (non-radiation worker) set by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC).

160 millirem dose:
Yearly dose to the average flight-crew members from cosmic radiation.

300 millirem dose:
Average yearly dose to people in the U.S. (background radiation).

5 rem dose:
Yearly limit for radiation workers set by the NRC (external and internal).

25 rem dose:
EPA guideline for voluntary maximum radiation dose to emergency workers for non-lifesaving work during a reactor emergency. Assumed to be a once-in-a-lifetime event.

75 rem dose:
EPA guideline for maximum radiation dose to emergency workers volunteering for lifesaving work.


50-200 rem:
At the lower end of this range, the symptoms of acute radiation syndrome: anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea can be delayed as much as a few weeks. A slight decrease in blood cell count can be noted. Survival with or without treatment is almost certain. At the upper end of this range, symptoms are more severe and early symptoms of bone marrow damage are noted. Survival without treatment is probable; and almost certain if treatment is given.

200-500 rem:
Anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea occur sooner and are more severe. Moderate to severe bone marrow damage and slight intestinal damage occurs. Without treatment, death is likely; survival with treatment is possible.

500-600 rem:
Severe anorexia, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea occur. Moderate to severe bone marrow and intestinal damage and hypotension. Death is likely.

So for all we know, the radiation levels could be safe, just higher than the governments extremely low limits.

So what you're saying is that large amounts of gamma radiation turn you into Karen Carpenter instead of the Hulk?

/I'm on top of the world
//but I've only just begun

An Aussie who has been exposed to Gamma rays is just going to turn into a regular New Zealander, right?

I'm pretty sure I read that in a book somewhere.

The families have hired attorney Jennifer Walters to handle their case.

Crosshair:
I was gonna come in to explain the whole rem thing, but you did a damn fine job.


/USAF
//Nuclear, Biological, Chemical, Radiological, High Yield Explosives Tech

kc987654:
So what you're saying is that large amounts of gamma radiation turn you into Karen Carpenter instead of the Hulk?


Sometimes...dead is better.

(can't find a good Fred Gwynne pic, dammit)

It's uranium tailings. What's more likely is that instead of gamma radiation they're getting a lot of radon in their homes, which is why the radon monitor was brought up.

Not a lot of chances for innocent bystanders to get the major zoomies in Australia, the US still holds the post-Chernobyl record I think.

Manservent_Hecubus: The families have hired attorney Jennifer Walters to handle their case.

Heh. Well played.

Crosshair: So for all we know, the radiation levels could be safe, just higher than the governments extremely low limits.

"For all we know"? From TFA:

Documents, stored in the National Archive since they were found in 1977 by the then deputy leader of the federal opposition, Tom Uren, show a pattern of stalling and playing down the risks, despite the fact that radiation tests showed that someone living at No. 11 could have been exposed to 26,500 millirems in a year. The annual dose considered safe is 100 millirems.

"Milli" means "thousandth" so 26500 millrems equals 26.5 rems per year. From your chart, one year's dosage is in excess of the "EPA guideline for voluntary maximum radiation dose to emergency workers for non-lifesaving work during a reactor emergency. Assumed to be a once-in-a-lifetime event." Of course when one buys a house one expects to live in it for several years.

I suppose this goes to show that the current U.S. government doesn't have an entire monopoly on contemptuous disregard for the safety and well-being of the "little people."

wkiernan: "Milli" means "thousandth" so 26500 millrems equals 26.5 rems per year. From your chart, one year's dosage is in excess of the "EPA guideline for voluntary maximum radiation dose to emergency workers for non-lifesaving work during a reactor emergency. Assumed to be a once-in-a-lifetime event." Of course when one buys a house one expects to live in it for several years.

Hey, a number of people in Taiwan lived in an apartment complex where they caught about 7.5mrem per year for up to 20 years. They had amazingly low cancer rates, much lower than expected for that population. So maybe the Australian government was just testing some new health measures.

26.5 rem in a year is worth worrying about, but that's what somebody "could have been exposed to" which means "we know damn well they weren't exposed to that level, but they could have been if they had been chained in the basement and force fed radium dust."

I wonder how a site in Hunters Hill became a radioactive waste dump, it's always been a pretty toney suburb. It's mostly multi million dollar homes.

At least it's a suburb where a 2 bedroom 1 bathroom house valued at just under a mill is considered "a bargain" (pops).

(aussie dollar is roughly equivalent to the plummeting US peso these days)

ChopSueyKS: An Aussie who has been exposed to Gamma rays is just going to turn into a regular New Zealander, right?

I'm pretty sure I read that in a book somewhere.

While Kiwis are more highly evolved than our convict cousins, I'm not sure that you can advance inferior genes simply by dosing yourself with gamma rays ;)

ZAZ: 26.5 rem in a year is worth worrying about, but that's what somebody "could have been exposed to" which means "we know damn well they weren't exposed to that level, but they could have been if they had been chained in the basement and force fed radium dust."

Possibly. My problem with the whole deal is the "stall and evade" orders that were given. The people have a right to know what they're being exposed to and to have government employees explicitly told to cover up the truth is disgusting.

Bottom line - we really don't understand the effects of chronic exposure to naturally-occurring radiation. Aberdeen has remarkably high levels (granite does that), but as far as I know, there aren't any ill effects. Maybe the locals have actually evolved immunity.

If we ever get a nuclear holocaust, I'd like to think about a world populated solely by Aberdonians.

At least they'd look after their money.

/Scottish stereotype.

"Results are promising for a new carbon nanotube based anti-radiation drug that has been developed. The researchers combined the carbon nanotubes-using them as the drug delivery tool, with common food preservatives BHT and BHA, used for the removal of free radicals produced by the radiation blast, which cause a lot of the harm. In small animal studies, it was thousands of times more effective than previously developed drugs. The government has awarded funding to fast track a human usable form of the drug."

Found some info after googling "Radium Factory Hunters Hill"

http://radwaste.blogspot.com/2008/01/hunters-hill-radium-legacy.html (pops)

Now we do know a little about this site. A colleague conducted an environmental survey there maybe 8 or 9 years ago. Which means a lot of dusty archives to search for the data. But for the present, the feeling in the turret is that the contamination on the site is cause for concern but not alarm. The small size of the problem means remediation is relatively simple and straightforward and disposing of the contaminated soil safely is entirely feasible and straightforward within national and international guidelines for disposal of such low-level waste.

The average measured external dose rate on the property was ca. 0.5 uSv/h, not hugely scary (a few times natural background). Of course, additional dose would arise from inhalation and if any of the soil was ingested by anybody occupying the site. So remediation is in order.


But the thing of real interest to us is the fascinating history behind this saga.

Australia's first uranium mine began operation at Radium Hill in South Australia (where else?) in 1906. Back then, it was the radium that was of interest and the uranium by-product was presumably simply thrown away. Radium Hill produced radium for cancer therapy and for painting glow-in-the-dark watch dials. Fascinatingly, some of the radium from Radium Hill also found its way to the Curies in Paris.

"The ore concentrate was treated in New South Wales and Victoria to yield a few hundred milligrams of radium and a several hundred tonnes of uranium by-product."

The treatment site in NSW was Hunters Hill. In the "Detailed Timeline of Uranium in Australia 1869 to 1969" we read "1908 - Radium Hill, and commercial mining begins to extract radium for medical uses (eg - as a cancer therapy). A small mill onsite pre-concentrates the ore, with the output processed at Hunters Hill, Sydney. Uranium is a waste product, also used in ceramics and paints."

We plan to find more historical info on Hunters Hill and associated operations, and will report back. But first we've got a 20/20 cricket game to win against those precious Indians!

It's nine o'clock in the Chinese take-away, and I blame the effect on the gamma ray. The deadly gamma ray.

Except, it being radon, it's really the not-nearly-so-deadly alpha particle. I guess that doesn't sound as terrifying though.

erewhon: Except, it being radon, it's really the not-nearly-so-deadly alpha particle. I guess that doesn't sound as terrifying though.

Fact. If you have an intact epidermis, alpha particles ain't shiat.

Telegraph broke this story in January

here (new window) & here (new window)& here (new window)

That's nothing. You could be sitting back in your recliner in your own home and have something emitting gamma rays. It's OK, our government approved the use of radioactive metals for recycling.

Link (new window)

History offers some indication of what can happen when radioactive
materials find their way into consumer goods. In the early 1980s,
contaminated metal from unknown sources was fabricated into jewelry
(wearers developed cancer and lost their fingers) and restaurant table
legs (most were detected prior to delivery, but some patrons and
employees may have been exposed to radioactive cobalt 60). In 1998,
occupants in Taiwanese apartment buildings made with radioactive steel
beams began reporting health problems, and a Michigan manufacturer was
forced to recall hundreds of La-Z-Boy recliners after learning that
the rocker springs contained radioactive metal.

Fark is convincing me that Australia and its sidekick New Zealand are the Florida of the Eastern Hemisphere

I highly doubt the radiation levels are actually harmful to life, they're just higher than the minimum allowed standards. But the health commission knows that if it mentions "DEADLY RADIATION" then suddenly everyone will be coming down with health problems and suing. It's happened before, like with the totally ridiculous "leukemia clusters" supposedly caused by high-voltage power lines, but in fact only caused by media hype (statistically speaking, you can get the same clusters just from random chance).

j0ndas: I highly doubt the radiation levels are actually harmful to life, they're just higher than the minimum allowed standards. But the health commission knows that if it mentions "DEADLY RADIATION" then suddenly everyone will be coming down with health problems and suing. It's happened before, like with the totally ridiculous "leukemia clusters" supposedly caused by high-voltage power lines, but in fact only caused by media hype (statistically speaking, you can get the same clusters just from random chance).

What about people squashed by Heavy Electricity?

RoxtarRyan:
Fact. If you have an intact epidermis, alpha particles ain't shiat.

O'course, with radon gas in your home, some of it will be in your lungs, where it's not so good for you. But you're right, the externally applied alpha doesn't hurt anything at all.