Anyone who favors administration policy in Afghanistan and Iraq, and who holds open the possibility of military action in Iran, and who does not at least discuss the possibility of a draft to bring the numbers of soldiers up to a level that could possibly pull all that off, is a scumbag and a hypocrite.

There aren't that many people in the National Guard, guys. Are we going to start recalling Vietnam vets? Korea vets? Hell, we could use those WWI vets. They don't seem to be doing that much these days.

Only because it's a guaranteed way to eliminate any civilian support for the war, subby. Once John Q. Public can be forced to go and risk his neck so that a rich man can play G. I. Joe with REAL SOLDIERS (wow! REAL LIFE kung-fu grip!), his support dries up rather fast.

Instituting a draft in the middle of an unpopular, divisive war that we have no chance of winning in any meaningful way... where have I heard all this before... gosh, it sounds so familiar...

I absolutely support bringing back the draft, if not that, then at least a tax increase to pay for the war. If the public doesn't feel the pinch *at freaking all*, this thing could feasibly go on forever.

Never mind that it has been Democrats so far who have been calling for it

Yeah...Charlie Rangel, and, um...well, I'm sure there are many others.

But the dude's got a point...McCain will at least keep this war going ad infinitum, and very possibly expand it into Iran. If that happens, expect a draft.

aside from Rangel, who has been calling for the draft?

Saborlas: Only because it's a guaranteed way to eliminate any civilian support for the war, subby. Once John Q. Public can be forced to go and risk his neck so that a rich man can play G. I. Joe with REAL SOLDIERS (wow! REAL LIFE kung-fu grip!), his support dries up rather fast.

Well, there's nothing more to say here.

Yup, because we all know who the Peace Party is, right?

Dem: Tripolitan War, War of 1812, Creek War, Indian Wars of 1817-1821, First Seminole War, Black Hawk War, Second Seminole War, Mexican War, Third Seminole War, Civil War, War I, World War II, Korean War, Cuba Bay of Pigs, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War II, Serbia vs. Bosnia, Kosovo

Rep: Spanish-American War, Grenada, Central America, Lebanon, Libya, Persian Gulf War I, Persian Gulf War III

tomWright: Civil War

Wasn't the Lincoln, the first Republican president?

/just sayin'

tomWright: Yup, because we all know who the Peace Party is, right?

History is fun, but it doesn't change the fact that we are currently being assfarked by Republican warmongers.

This article poses a lot of hypotheticals to reach its conclusion.

tomWright: Yup, because we all know who the Peace Party is, right?

In this case, the past doesn't matter. Its the present that's the problem.

tomWright: Tripolitan War

Was that the war where they settled, once and for all, that it would vanilla, chocolate and strawberry?

This would be good for Iraq's economy. Hilton would build hotels over there to lodge all the draftee sons of rich Republicans.

bigpete53: tomWright: Civil War

Wasn't the Lincoln, the first Republican president?

/just sayin'

Yup. But the Confederacy seceded unilaterally and fired the first shots at Fort Sumpter. It was headed by Jefferson Davis, who was the Senator from Mississippi, and a Democrat.

Lionel Mandrake: tomWright: Yup, because we all know who the Peace Party is, right?

History is fun, but it doesn't change the fact that we are currently being assfarked by Republican warmongers.

True, but I would argue they are just the left and right foot of the same boot-on-your-neck party.

Cake Hunter: tomWright: Tripolitan War

Was that the war where they settled, once and for all, that it would vanilla, chocolate and strawberry?

Perhaps. I prefer to think it was a war over dopplebock and tripplebock

tomWright: Yup, because we all know who the Peace Party is, right?

Good thing none of those guys are running.

Not sure of your point and what it has to do with the present - let alone this thread

Lionel Mandrake: History is fun

Why, yes! Ask Britain how their 'occupation' of Iraq in the WWI worked out...

/oops, too late.

MsInterpreted: Lionel Mandrake: History is fun

Why, yes! Ask Britain how their 'occupation' of Iraq in the WWI worked out...

/oops, too late.

Yup.

Ask anyone how an occupation works out. Chances are, badly.

/keep the troops home to defend the borders
//Mind our own farking business.

The first party to call for reinstating the draft can kiss their asses goodbye. Right now, most people put up with our poor excuses for leadership because Congress has kept the middle class largely insulated from the results of their idiotic adminstration. Start drafting their kids into the war and you'll get everyone riled up in a BIG hurry tho, and that would not bode well for anyone inside the beltway.

tomWright: Vietnam War

The first American soldier died there during the Eisenhower administration. Funny, I thought Ike was a Republican.

Oh well. A right wing talking point couldn't possibly be.... wrong.

HansensDisease: tomWright: Vietnam War

The first American soldier died there during the Eisenhower administration. Funny, I thought Ike was a Republican.

Oh well. A right wing talking point couldn't possibly be.... wrong.

Depends on when you mark the start (new window)

Truman sent the first troops in 1950. Eisenhower inherited this obligation. He did increase involvement in training the Souths army.

i want the draft.

it will force the quickening collapse of "the american way".

-it seems we need another lesson in the futilities of war.

i used to think that 'american' foreign policy was based on greed alone.

now...i know it is the greed of stupid men, who inherited their money and position from their farked up, twisted fathers.

-we are generations in the making, in regards to our "stupid" quality.

this explains why sane people reject hillary clinton and john mccain.

tomWright: It was headed by Jefferson Davis, who was the Senator from Mississippi, and a Democrat

Democrat 2000 != Democrat 1860

in his world it does.

bargled: tomWright: It was headed by Jefferson Davis, who was the Senator from Mississippi, and a Democrat

Democrat 2000 != Democrat 1860

Still a Democrat. Hey bigpete53 said Lincoln was a Republican, just setting the record straight.

And if you want to keep it to, say, just the 20th Century, then:

Dem: War I, World War II, Korean War, Cuba Bay of Pigs, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War II, Serbia vs. Bosnia, Kosovo

Rep: Grenada, Central America, Lebanon, Libya, Persian Gulf War I, Persian Gulf War III

Especially if you go by numbers killed, Dems still seem bad.

But as I said, they are two sides of the same coin.

I thought Bush was going to 'inevitably' bring back the Draft in 2002... and 2004.... and 2006.

The American people aren't even paying for the war yet nor have thy been asked to. They certainly won't tolerate being forced to fight in something they don't believe in. It just won't work.

John McCain will not bring back the draft. The current administration sent our troops in undermanned, under-equipped, under-trained, and without a plan. John McCain will simply continue this for as long as he can with our overextended military. McCain will continue force this nation to loose troops and spend trillions we don't have to help the Republican party save face.

Dems call for the draft only to underscore how utterly useless our current "foreign policy" is without it.

Don't want to pay the price? Then DON'T BUY IT.

/Sorry for shouting. I thought I was talking to my shopaholic sister for a minute.

I like how you guys have invented a "Persian Gulf War II" so you blame Clinton for something. Cool.

tomWright: It was headed by Jefferson Davis, who was the Senator from Mississippi, and a Democrat.

What about the Democratic-Republican Party of 1792? What about the Tory Party of 1678?

Pericles was a Democrat. Did you know he married a blood relative, had several mistresses and enjoyed the company of young boys? Those Democrats, so corrupt and immoral, right?

PC LOAD LETTER: and enjoyed the company of young boys

That right there shows how the history of a party doesn't matter when it comes to current policy. These days it's the GOP diddling the dudes.

Only Rep. Charles Randel (D-NY) was calling for the draft in 2004. It was an election year scare tactic by the Democrats that Bush would "bring back the draft". The Republicans in the House undermined Rangel by calling his bluff and calling for a vote on Rangel's draft proposel. No one voted forit, and Rangel even voted against his own proposal.

Also, the site Punk Voter was trying to scare college kids with the fear that Bush would bring back the draft if reelected. Another site, Conservative Punk, has been keeping a running clock counting the number of days since Bush's second term and noteing that there has been no draft. Link (new window).

I actually had co-workers in 2004 planning on fleeing to Canada if Bush was reelected because they were so convinced that Bush was going to bring back the draft.

The fear mongering leaders of the Democratic Party do this every election period.

As a proud American citizen, I find McCain's ideas impressive.

Lionel Mandrake: Never mind that it has been Democrats so far who have been calling for it

Yeah...Charlie Rangel, and, um...well, I'm sure there are many others.

But the dude's got a point...McCain will at least keep this war going ad infinitum, and very possibly expand it into Iran. If that happens, expect a draft.

Remember Charlie Rangel called for the draft in order to end the war. When rich white folk realize their little tax-deductions are going to have to run naked at the enemy, suddenly their patriotism disappears.

When the threat is genuine you won't have to play politics with fear and bullshiat us into a war like Iraq. And you won't be able to sign up the volunteers fast enough.

My idea was to allow ex soldiers back in for short (4-6 months) tours at double the pay.

SherKhan: When the threat is genuine you won't have to play politics with fear and bullshiat us into a war like Iraq. And you won't be able to sign up the volunteers fast enough.

This

JQPublic: I actually had co-workers in 2004 planning on fleeing to Canada if Bush was reelected because they were so convinced that Bush was going to bring back the draft.

I remember there was a blurb on the news about the massive spike in traffic that the "how to move to Canada" websites and Canadian government websites had during the week of the 2004 election.

I'd saw my legs off before I'd ever serve involuntary for slimy beltway assholes.

/not really
//would probably relocate to a shack in Montana
///and eat lots of moose
////slashies!

Aarontology: PC LOAD LETTER: and enjoyed the company of young boys

That right there shows how the history of a party doesn't matter when it comes to current policy. These days it's the GOP diddling the dudes.

Of course they have to take all those wide stances. THey have to balance out all the narrow ones they have.

GAT_00: tomWright: Yup, because we all know who the Peace Party is, right?

In this case, the past doesn't matter. Its the present that's the problem.

The past matters. It's party affiliation that doesn't. Other politicians in the past lied to get us into wars. So did this administration. We should learn not to trust ANY politician who says that the reasons he is doing something is a secret but trust him, he has protecting American Freedom as his sole concern.

/You can't be a little pregnant
//Or a little dead
///Or free by surrendering your freedoms.

tomWright: Dem: Persian Gulf War II

OK... out of pure boredom on my part I want to ask, what are you talking about?

tomWright: bargled: tomWright: It was headed by Jefferson Davis, who was the Senator from Mississippi, and a Democrat

Democrat 2000 != Democrat 1860

Still a Democrat. Hey bigpete53 said Lincoln was a Republican, just setting the record straight.

And if you want to keep it to, say, just the 20th Century, then:

Dem: War I, World War II, Korean War, Cuba Bay of Pigs, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War II, Serbia vs. Bosnia, Kosovo

Rep: Grenada, Central America, Lebanon, Libya, Persian Gulf War I, Persian Gulf War III

Especially if you go by numbers killed, Dems still seem bad.

But as I said, they are two sides of the same coin.

The big ideological swap happened a little before Korea. Anything before that, flip sides....

The liberals: Spanish-American War, Korean War, Cuba Bay of Pigs, Vietnam War, Persian Gulf War II, Serbia vs. Bosnia, Kosovo

The conservatives: Tripolitan War, War of 1812, Creek War, Indian Wars of 1817-1821, First Seminole War, Black Hawk War, Second Seminole War, Mexican War, Third Seminole War, Civil War, War I, World War II, Grenada, Central America, Lebanon, Libya, Persian Gulf War I, Persian Gulf War III

wowzer97pooh: Lionel Mandrake: Never mind that it has been Democrats so far who have been calling for it

Yeah...Charlie Rangel, and, um...well, I'm sure there are many others.

But the dude's got a point...McCain will at least keep this war going ad infinitum, and very possibly expand it into Iran. If that happens, expect a draft.

Remember Charlie Rangel called for the draft in order to end the war. When rich white folk realize their little tax-deductions are going to have to run naked at the enemy, suddenly their patriotism disappears.

Then why did Rangel vote against his own legislation? Because it was a head fake. The only two that voted yes on it were Democrats (Murtha, Stark) all the co-sponsor were Democrats. The bill was defeated 402-2. That is quite bipartisan. Link (new window)

SherKhan: When the threat is genuine you won't have to play politics with fear and bullshiat us into a war like Iraq. And you won't be able to sign up the volunteers fast enough.

Precisely.

Nemo's Brother: The fear mongering leaders of the Democratic Party do this every election period.

Oh? Examples?

Nemo's Brother: The fear mongering leaders of the Democratic Party do this every election period.

Whose alt are you?