Good for them.
Or did you think that money for schools came about some other way?

The taxes go up, and the tax base moves out.

Stick that in your cake and bake it, Mrs. Haire.

Good. I loathe fundraisers. Public education should be exactly that -- publicly funded. None of this pretend "we edumacate our kids real good without raising your taxes" crap, followed by money-grubbing for nine months.

Either FUND it, or privatize the whole thing. Either way works.

0Icky0: Or did you think that money for schools came about some other way?

The problem is that they only throw money at the problems without actually working to fix them. When you see money getting pissed away on increasing administrators salaries and not much else, you're not that inclined to give the schools more funding.

"These are people who have the spare time to do this," said Anderson. "They are obsessed with what they want for their kids, which is a private school experience that they don't have to pay for themselves."

Bingo. As John Stewart said, "Extremists are in charge because moderates have shiat to do."

Think soccer moms, with an activist bent.

Urge to kill...rising.

I don't have kids and don't intend on having them. Leave me out of it. Put a tax on magnetic soccer ball stickers or something.

What was that about it being a good day when the military holds a bake sale?

If only there was an equivalent of the military industrial complex for the educational system, there wouldn't be any problem.

Okay, I was ready to rant about tax rate hikes etc. However from what I can see, the public has to vote on these hikes. Am I missing something?

/pissed my righteous indignation fizzled

As usual, people want all the societal benefits of good schools and such, without having to pay for it. Typical.

Crosshair: "These are people who have the spare time to do this," said Anderson. "They are obsessed with what they want for their kids, which is a private school experience that they don't have to pay for themselves."

Yeah, fark those parents for wanting their kids to learn. Public school kids need to deal with mediocrity at an early age.

I'm sick of paying higher property taxes for kids you decided to have.

You wanted them, you pay.

Why should property tax finance the school system? The whole system is a complete joke.

Spanky_McFarksalot: I'm sick of paying higher property taxes for kids you decided to have roads, fire service, and military defense.

You wanted them, you pay.

Remember, we're all atomistic individuals! Survival of the fittest!

God forbid we pay taxes to educate our kids. We should be pissing that money away in Iraq instead.

Did any of you RTFA? This is about a lot more than schools.

yeah, let's buy more $171,000,000 schools, that will solve it.


Link (new window)

LocalCynic: Remember, we're all atomistic individuals! Survival of the fittest!

Oh spare me your strawman. I didn't say anything about not funding schools. I said I'm sick of paying higher property taxers for your precious little snowflake.

Spanky_McFarksalot:

I'm sick of paying taxes for your precious roads and stop signs and fire departments and military contractors. There is no such thing as society. We should all look out only for ourselves.

The only problem I see in this quagmire is, once funds become tax money, the government becomes involved. We all know what happens next.

So iron my shorts soccer mom's, and suck it when I need it.

Women and politics...sheez.

what's a "override"?

LocalCynic: Remember, we're all atomistic individuals! Survival of the fittest!

-1 for not including Ayn Rand in your little rant. You're slipping.

Partisan: God forbid we pay taxes to educate our kids

Look, nobody would mind paying taxes if said kids would actually learn anything at school. But despite all the money thrown at public schools, college is the new GED.

Well, we all knew the cake was a lie.

So have these moms looked into how the current money going into the schools is being spent or are they under the belief that more money will solve the issues.

atlanta_ufo: or are they under the belief that more money will solve the issues.

Well a lot of people are under that impression, why should they be different?

Kar98: But despite all the money thrown at public schools, college is the new GED.

All of my brothers and sisters went to public school. The country ended up with a high school principal, a housewife, a NASA scientist, a civil engineer, a banker, a special ed teacher, a game designer, a grade school teacher, a physical therapist, and a Marine colonel.
And my dad was President of the School Board.

Not too bad for public schools.

What's your alternative?

atlanta_ufo: or are they under the belief that more money will solve the issues.

Oh, that's right. More money works for defense, but not education.
Funny, that.

Politicians know schools are important. Unfortunately, they use them as a way to increase spending in other areas. First, they claim a tax increase is needed to fund the schools, and when they get it, they transfer some of the funds originally going to the schools to some other area. Divert enough funds to other projects, and pretty soon you need another tax increase to fund schools.

Just look at how they frame the issue. Do they honestly think schools are the first place they should cut spending? Yet they never say "You know, if the new taxes aren't approved, we will have to cut back on landscaping for the courthouse" or "We'll have to cut the staff of the local planning commission," it's always the schools that are targeted.

Snarfangel: "You know, if the new taxes aren't approved, we will have to cut back on landscaping for the courthouse" or "We'll have to cut the staff of the local planning commission," it's always the schools that are targeted.

Now that's a good point.

0Icky0: Kar98: But despite all the money thrown at public schools, college is the new GED.

All of my brothers and sisters went to public school. The country ended up with a high school principal, a housewife, a NASA scientist, a civil engineer, a banker, a special ed teacher, a game designer, a grade school teacher, a physical therapist, and a Marine colonel.
And my dad was President of the School Board.

Not too bad for public schools.

What's your alternative?

Sounds like your family went to public school some time ago. There is a reason people want vouchers today.

0Icky0: atlanta_ufo: or are they under the belief that more money will solve the issues.

Oh, that's right. More money works for defense, but not education.
Funny, that.

I think both waste money, what's your point.

<b>Spanky_McFarksalot:</b> <i>Oh spare me your strawman. I didn't say anything about not funding schools. I said I'm sick of paying higher property taxers for <strike>your precious little snowflake.</strike>an educated electorate and work force.</i>

Fixed that for you.

/which doesn't work so well since Fark has decided that I farking *never* get html back
//don't ask me why I lost it, I was never informed what my infraction was

Hey man, my schoolday's insane ...
You know my Suffragette City
Is outta sight...she's all right

/First thing I thought of
//Democracies need good public education
///Good public education needs good public funding
////pony up.
5*/

atlanta_ufo: Sounds like your family went to public school some time ago.

My nieces and nephews are turning out just fine as well.

0Icky0: atlanta_ufo: Sounds like your family went to public school some time ago.

My nieces and nephews are turning out just fine as well.

A statistical sample of your family means the public school system is working. Cool

<b>Suicidal Writer:</b> <i>"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical; even forcing him to support this or that teacher of his own religious persuasion, is depriving him of the comfortable liberty of giving his contributions to the particular pastor whose morals he would make his pattern."


-- Thomas Jefferson</i>

He's talking about propagation of religion and not teaching people reading and mathematics. In case you missed them, the key words were "religious persuasion" and "pastor".

atlanta_ufo: There is a reason people want vouchers today.

Yes, so they can get more Jesus and less math, paid for on the public dole.

Vouchers don't foster "competition" between school. It's just an excuse to disassemble public schooling, then cut funding and tell people to pay for their own education.

Well, you have to note that these towns are among the very very weathiest in MA. Personally, I have no problem funding schools because I think it generally keeps property values up. But I also think these women should spend less time whining about the (very) good schools in their communities and spend more time advocating for schools that really need extra money.

atlanta_ufo: A statistical sample of your family means the public school system is working. Cool

I haven't seen any statistics from the people arguing that not supporting public schools is going to solve any problems.

All I hear is whining about taxes, as if you shouldn't have to pay for the things you buy.

Snarfangel very important point.

[Romero] Portions of multiple American tax codes are designed to take money from people without families and funnel it towards people with families.

Eliminate property taxes, create a one-time tax for ever child born that will cover education through the end of high school. $50,000 sounds pretty decent. If the parents can't afford it, ABORT ABORT ABORT.

Problem solved.

It's not the schools fault some kids are idiots and they have to cater to the lowest common denominator.

*every

/Y key is sticky from last night
/yes, Yes, YES!

bheilig: [Romero] Portions of multiple American tax codes are designed to take money from people without families and funnel it towards people with families.

Educated people are a benefit to those without children as well.

/I can't believe that I had to point that out.

0Icky0: atlanta_ufo: A statistical sample of your family means the public school system is working. Cool

I haven't seen any statistics from the people arguing that not supporting public schools is going to solve any problems.

All I hear is whining about taxes, as if you shouldn't have to pay for the things you buy.

I didn't argue against supporting public schools, I argued against the American public school system. You want statistics?

Illiteracy in America (new window)

Finland spends $5,000 a year per student, and has the best and most successful education system in the freaking world.

New York State spent the most $14,119 per student, Utah spent the least per student ($5,257) (2005)

LocalCynic: I'm sick of paying taxes for your precious roads and stop signs and fire departments and military contractors. There is no such thing as society. We should all look out only for ourselves.

So what you're saying is that even though someone engages in activity that increases the costs of providing a social service, they should be under no obligation to pay more for it? People who consume more resources shouldn't have to pay for that consumption? So by your logic:

- People who ride their bikes on the street should pay the same amount as the heavy trucks that cause 90% of the wear and tear.

- Polluters shouldn't have to pay more; we all benefit from clean air, so those costs should be spread evenly.

- People who have terrible driving records or who drive $60K BMWs in the hood shouldn't have to pay more for insurance, because we all benefit from having fewer uninsured motorists.

And this isn't about "wanting their kids to learn". It doesn't take $15,000+ per capita to get kids to learn. This is about wanting more goodies in the name of "education" and passing the costs around so they don't have to bear the costs of their decisions. And they get to show that they care, but on someone else's dime.

But we shouldn't question anyone in the education arena, because they're concerned mothers or professionals and "it's for the children", right? They're the experts, and we should just suck it up and pay whatever they want, because obviously the only reason someone would question them is because they hate kids and want them all to be illiterate street urchins. Just like we should let the professionals in the defense industry and DHS do whatever they want without oversight because anyone who questions their motives or spending obviously wants "the terrorists" to win.

0Icky0: bheilig: [Romero] Portions of multiple American tax codes are designed to take money from people without families and funnel it towards people with families.

Educated people are a benefit to those without children as well.

/I can't believe that I had to point that out.

Solution: match Federal Medicaid, Medicare, and other services funding to local support of public education ... after a generation of reaping the benefits of poor infrastructural support , Darwinism should start kicking in

LocalCynic: Vouchers don't foster "competition" between school. It's just an excuse to disassemble public schooling, then cut funding and tell people to pay for their own education.

Sounds like a plan to me.
If the schools are so great, and need money ... how about asking for donations?
Because the public has a vested interest in educating the kids, right?
And no reasonable person wouldn't want to give money to educate kids, right?
So if you asked for donations, and all these people chipped in, nobody would be forced to pay!

It is amazing how the public school system [which in the end is little more than a day-care that teaches simple crap like reading and math] gets upheld as the most important thing in a child's life. Newsflash: you can teach your own damn kid to read, and math isn't much harder. Someone who can read and handle basic math can teach themselves the rest.

When I see public education, all I see is the waste:
Keeping a bunch of administration bureaucrats employed.
Making sure the textbook publishers have customers no matter what.
Publicly funded athletic programs.
The adorable kids in the play.
Remedial programs for lazy students.

Teach your own kids to read and toss them in a room with an encyclopedia ...
If they come out looking for more books, great! [you have found someone who will benefit from education]
If they come out looking for "something easier", that's great too! [my toilet needs a good cleaning, my garbage needs to be hauled away, etc etc.]

Here is an exercise for the anti-taxes brigade:

Can you name any benefits a property-holder might enjoy from a well-funded school system in his/her area, even if they don't have any children in the school system?

I'm sorry, but I will NOT vote for any sort of increase "for the children." Call me a heart-less baby hater or whatever, but people in Ohio pay enough for taxes and there's nothing to show for it. There are areas where people pay a federal income tax, a state income tax, a municipal income tax, a property tax, and a school tax.

The school tax is supposed to help the kids learn and fund education, but there are 8th graders here that can't even spell uncle. It's obvious that throwing money at schools is not the answer. They have no idea how to manage their money and kids are not being helped with tax levies.

Where I grew up, the property taxes supported the schools. There was no state income tax, there was no municipality income tax, and there surely was no school tax. We had one high school. Instead of building a brand new high school that wasn't needed yet (and paying for a new staff of teachers and all of the new 'stuff' that schools need), the city just added on and remodeled the old one. By the time kids went to high school, they could read. The teachers weren't paid the best, but they were paid as much as possible given the state.