If you can't tarnish your legacy, tarnish it another.

Is nice, I like.

I'm really surprised the MSM hasn't gone after the Clintons more about this shiat.

Bill Frist: I'm really surprised the MSM hasn't gone after the Clintons more about this shiat.

they're in hillary sympathy mode right now. they overreacted to St. Obama

The corrupt Kazakhstan businessmen are good people. It's the corrupt France businessmen you've got to look out for - they'll stab you in the back even quicker than the corrupt Greece businessmen will. All of them are preferable to corrupt Norway businessmen.

/It's "Kazakh businessmen"
//Grammar Nazi mode: OFF

I think Hillary's pretty much done it to herself. Bill hasn't been helping (to put it mildly), but her campaign has looked like it's a straight Republican scare-tactic Karl Rove style campaign for a while now. I think people just want something other than the same "Oooga-Booga" bullshiat. I was already leaning towards Obama, but Hillary lost any chance she had of getting my vote with that red-phone ad.

Fear is played out. (pops)

madmann: Fear is played out.

The suspense is starting to drive me nuts. What are you doing tuesday night? I sure hope there will be an election night thread for all us poli tab junkies to hang out in.

I had no idea who Mark Penn was until I read this article today. It explains a lot including why Hillary looks botoxed to the gills these days.

I am just so amazed that Obama'a campaign has not attacked her on any of this. It must be driving her nuts that he is winning by taking the high road. Corporate shill lobbyists are running her whole farking campaign. Its sickening.

quickdraw: I am just so amazed that Obama'a campaign has not attacked her on any of this. It must be driving her nuts that he is winning by taking the high road. Corporate shill lobbyists are running her whole farking campaign. Its sickening.

Actually, I think it's wonderful. But nobody inside the D.C. beltway is going to talk in public about questionable deals and sources of campaign funding. That's the sort of thing that would only tend to upset the unwashed masses and screw both republican and democrat alike. So no talky about the money, except in vague terms of 'lobbyists' and 'special interests'.

Weaver95: Actually, I think it's wonderful.

You think its wonderful lobbyists are running her campaign? :P Actually I know what you meant and I think it is wonderful too that Obama is taking the high road on this. OTOH it is because of the internet and freaks like us that he can.

The info is out there and being spread virally by anyone that cares.
In essence we are doing his dirty work for him. He is savvy enough to realize that a politician pointing this stuff out is a very ineffective way to deliver a message in this modern world.

I think that is part of the reason why this year's primary seems to fall much more heavily on generational than gender, race or even party lines. Hillary's campaign relies on people who spend more time watching TV than they do online. Obama is much more rooted in the present.

I'm not sure who McCain's campaign is geared towards. He sure seems like the sacrificial goat (again) that the republican party is putting up for a certain loss.

quickdraw: I'm not sure who McCain's campaign is geared towards. He sure seems like the sacrificial goat (again) that the republican party is putting up for a certain loss.

There's always the outside chance that Hillary might get the nomination. That would virtually ensure that McCain takes the white house.

In all practical terms tho, I think Hillary is done. After she loses Texas, I suspect she's going to have a very uncomfortable meeting with the powerbrokers in the DNC. In that meeting she will be told that she's done, her campaign is over and that she will give a concession speech and urge her delegates to vote for Obama. Then she gets to go have a nice vacation for a couple weeks and keep her senate seat.

quickdraw: The suspense is starting to drive me nuts. What are you doing tuesday night? I sure hope there will be an election night thread for all us poli tab junkies to hang out in.

Ahh, I'm sure there will be. I think and believe that Weaver95 has the sequence of events pretty well laid out. I, for one, will be glad when/if Hillary's out of the picture, again because I see the same outcome he does if she gets the nod. A helluva fistfight with little at stake, at the very least.

madmann: Ahh, I'm sure there will be. I think and believe that Weaver95 has the sequence of events pretty well laid out. I, for one, will be glad when/if Hillary's out of the picture, again because I see the same outcome he does if she gets the nod. A helluva fistfight with little at stake, at the very least.

Keep in mind that i'm just speculating wildly. I would have thought that the DNC leaders would have shut down Hillary a couple of weeks ago. 11 straight losses in a row is a humiliating and embarrasing defeat. 'Epic fail' dosen't do it justice. Either Hillary refuses to quit or her enemies want to utterly destroy any possiblity of her from ever seeking the white house ever again. It could even be a little of both, if you were of the conspiratorial inclination.

All that aside, I think 12 losses in a row is enough for anyone. She's going to have to quit at some point and now is as good a time as any.

Weaver95: That would virtually ensure that McCain takes the white house.

I wonder about that. I really do. If McCain wasn't so obviously Bush's lapdog I would think you were right. Not that Hillary is any less entrenched but she at least pretends to be at odds with Bush's policies when the camera is on her.

I also think it is possible that if Obama does not get the Dem nomination that we might see the first ever successful write-in candidacy for President. There is that much momentum behind him and, if he loses the primary on a technicality, people will be pissed.

quickdraw: I wonder about that. I really do. If McCain wasn't so obviously Bush's lapdog I would think you were right. Not that Hillary is any less entrenched but she at least pretends to be at odds with Bush's policies when the camera is on her.

Yeah, but Hillary's problem is that nobody trusts her. Every time I see Hillary do something nice, I always ask myself 'well gee, that's nice and all but what's her angle?'. that sort of thing ain't good if you're trying to get voters to trust you.

I also think it is possible that if Obama does not get the Dem nomination that we might see the first ever successful write-in candidacy for President. There is that much momentum behind him and, if he loses the primary on a technicality, people will be pissed.

If Hillary is handed the nomination on a legal technicality, I think it would be the end of the Democratic party. The rank and file would done with that organization. Look - a substantial number of democrats already believe that Bush stole the white house. They are NOT going to stand to see someone like Hillary steal the white house from Obama.

quickdraw: I also think it is possible that if Obama does not get the Dem nomination that we might see the first ever successful write-in candidacy for President. There is that much momentum behind him and, if he loses the primary on a technicality, people will be pissed.

Hm... That would be unprecedented, but given the number of first-time voters Obama inspired for the primaries and the fact that his campaign is run extremely well, I could see a write-in campaign making a dent. However, it would be impossible to tell how successful it would be on election day, since the system is mostly automated, and it would take a long time to read all those ballots. The system just isn't geared toward that.

The adjective is Kazakh. The suffix stan means "home of." Pakistan is home of the Pakis, Afghanistan is home of the Afghanis. Saying Kazakhstan businessman is like saying America businessman or Britain businessman.

quickdraw: I also think it is possible that if Obama does not get the Dem nomination that we might see the first ever successful write-in candidacy for President. There is that much momentum behind him and, if he loses the primary on a technicality, people will be pissed.

While I suppose I could see him getting a record number of write-in votes, possibly.. I don't see much else. Odds are, he'd barely register as a write-in candidate, if at all.

quickdraw: madmann: Fear is played out.

The suspense is starting to drive me nuts. What are you doing tuesday night? I sure hope there will be an election night thread for all us poli tab junkies to hang out in.

I had no idea who Mark Penn was until I read this article today. It explains a lot including why Hillary looks botoxed to the gills these days.

I am just so amazed that Obama'a campaign has not attacked her on any of this. It must be driving her nuts that he is winning by taking the high road. Corporate shill lobbyists are running her whole farking campaign. Its sickening.



you know, for a guy like Penn who's been trying to make a book writing career out of ripping off Malcolm Gladwell Link (new window), his campaign seems like something straight out of "Blink". Clinton had the "perfect plan"; an unstoppable force of funds, name recognition, and top-down strategy. Once Obama started unexpectedly beating her on the ground, she basically froze and showed no ability to think on her feet. Watching that self-destruction looks a bit scary as a look into her future as president.

Guistra is Canadian, they just did a deal in Kazakhstan. And of all their dealings, I think this charity stuff is the least of their worries.

Relatively Obscure: quickdraw: I also think it is possible that if Obama does not get the Dem nomination that we might see the first ever successful write-in candidacy for President. There is that much momentum behind him and, if he loses the primary on a technicality, people will be pissed.

While I suppose I could see him getting a record number of write-in votes, possibly.. I don't see much else. Odds are, he'd barely register as a write-in candidate, if at all.

Depending up whether or not it is probably too late to register in all 50 states as an Independent is the real question. Obama's supporters may pressure him to register like that. Will he do that and split the vote 50-50(25% each) between Hillary and himself and give McCain the other half(50%)? I doubt it, but hey anything is possible.

The Democrat party would break apart worse than California could into the Pacific. The damage would take decades to fix and would severely undermine the advantage to maintain a Democrat majority in Congress.

I guess Hillary's campaign needs some more moolah.

I wonder when the MSM is going to pick up on the fact that if things don't go very well for Clinton on Tuesday, she can't win the nomination even if she DOES get every single remaining superdelegate after that.

There are

quickdraw: I had no idea who Mark Penn was until I read this article today.


Saw this pic of Penn. Does anyone else think he looks like an older, fatter Chris Parnell?

Weaver95:Forty-Two: Relatively Obscure:
Wei Kai Xuan:

If Obama does lose this primary all of that Obamamentum would need to go somewhere. Obama's campaign is generating its own heat - heck it practically has its own gravitational field. That energy is not going to disappear overnight. You can't break the laws of physics.

A write-in campaign would be much less divisive for the democratic party than the inevitable sturm and dang that would result if his supporters feel completely marginalized.

In ye olden days college students across the nation banded together to protest the draft and assert their right to representation. It could happen again.

Longtime Lurker: Watching that self-destruction looks a bit scary as a look into her future as president.

Its tragic really. The frightening thing for me is how slow-witted she seems. I had always thought of her as smart but I see no evidence of that in her campaign. I mean - we all have the right to be clueless from time to time but she just seems so damn slow on the uptake.

Great Success!

Longtime Lurker:

Watching that self-destruction looks a bit scary as a look into her future as president.

Very good point.