Great album, great band.

Snoozer: Great album, great band.

x2

Admins, I enjoyed this article the first time I read it in its entirety on Slate, a few days ago.

Snoozer: Great album, great band.

x3

On Avery Island also a great album.

While I don't see how he could put something out any better, I wish Mangum would try. Of course, that is addressed in the article.

\soft silly music is meaningful magical

submitter: A Tribute to Anne Frank

Ah...Anne Frank! That chick was all duhhh, till the miracle worker showed up and knocked smarts into her.

clap clap clap

Anne Frank was an incestuous cannibal?

shiat, I must have listened to a few songs on that album hundreds of times and I had no idea it had anything to do with Anne Frank.

/read the Diary in Amsterdam when I was 15 after visiting the Anne Frank home (in 1988) and it definitely affected my teenage worldview.

amazing album

Either Slate or Salon has an article about Mangum this week, calling him the J.D. Salinger of indie rock.

Better to burn out than fade away.

i'm sure we can all be friends fellas and ladies, but this album is VASTLY overrated.

"impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

he's the opposite of Salinger. Salinger writes cleanly and extreamly precisely. really gets his point across and covers deep subjects with the insight they deserve.

"I love you jesus christ" vs. franny and zooey. as morality studies. no contest.

goodbomb: i'm sure we can all be friends fellas and ladies, but this album is VASTLY overrated.

"impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

he's the opposite of Salinger. Salinger writes cleanly and extreamly precisely. really gets his point across and covers deep subjects with the insight they deserve.

"I love you jesus christ" vs. franny and zooey. as morality studies. no contest.

I don't think so.

goodbomb: i'm sure we can all be friends fellas and ladies, but this album is VASTLY overrated.

"impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

he's the opposite of Salinger. Salinger writes cleanly and extreamly precisely. really gets his point across and covers deep subjects with the insight they deserve.

"I love you jesus christ" vs. franny and zooey. as morality studies. no contest.

What about the track In The Aeroplane Over The Sea, I don't find those lyrics to be pretentious, it's a beautiful song. Honestly it's you who is sounding pretentious.

Listened to this album over and over for a few months straight couple years back.

More into melody than lyrics, but this album is great all around.

I love this album/band. The article was pretty good. One question, where was the mention of his Elephant Six Collective-era band, Olivia Tremor Control?

goodbomb: i'm sure we can all be friends fellas and ladies, but this album is VASTLY overrated.

"impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.


Oh, and, it's "Playing piano filles with flames". Not "rain".

fills=filled.

Oh well..

shaggenstein:

What about the track In The Aeroplane Over The Sea, I don't find those lyrics to be pretentious, it's a beautiful song. Honestly it's you who is sounding pretentious.

fair enough. I do, you're right. i've had this conversation with people a lot over the years and i guess i've gotten a little self-righteous.

don't get me wrong, I appreciate the album (and actually that's probably my favorite song on it. that and the opening track). its good. but its held us as so much more than merely good. the article had it referenced as "the best album of the decade, better than radiohead or nirvana" which to me is ridiculous.

I don't know. I'm just angry at indie rock. this whole tortured wierdo genius thing just gets me down about the future of rock and roll.

the lyrics are positive but the mood is "the world is awful and the only thing to do is go elsewhere and try your best to forget about it... and then wallow and be sad because you can't forget about it no matter how hard to try."

but yeah, i went through the lyrics of the title track trying to hate on them and i wasn't really able to, so i suppose i have to give it to you.

great handle by the way

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: goodbomb: i'm sure we can all be friends fellas and ladies, but this album is VASTLY overrated.

"impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.


Oh, and, it's "Playing piano filles with flames". Not "rain".

you're right. -2 for me.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: goodbomb: i'm sure we can all be friends fellas and ladies, but this album is VASTLY overrated.

"impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

he's the opposite of Salinger. Salinger writes cleanly and extreamly precisely. really gets his point across and covers deep subjects with the insight they deserve.

"I love you jesus christ" vs. franny and zooey. as morality studies. no contest.

I don't think so.

that's bold man. salinger's a genius. franny and zooey completely nails it as far as i'm concerned. not his best book but definitely his best morality comments. whereas Mangum is the same old "have faith have faith have faith la la la life is terrible. the world hurts my feelings." he's like franny who misunderstands all holy books etc.



Up and over we go through the wave and undertow
I will float until I learn how to swim inside my mother
in a garbage bin until I find myself again again up
and over we go mouths open wide and spitting still
and I will spit until I learn how to speak up thru the
doorway as the sideboards creek with them ever
proclaiming me me ohhhhhhhhhhhh



i'm sorry but this is faux-significant. it has the appearance of significance but means nothing much when you unravel it. like a lot of indulgence-era dylan but without the aesthetic mastery.

his melodic sense is very good which i think makes his lyrics seem better than they are.

i think the bit about swimming inside his mother is actually a window into his entire thing. like he's still in the womb-stage of thinking about life.

goodbomb: i'm sorry but this is faux-significant.

Faux-significant, eh?

Even if those lyrics were really meaningless, who cares? Nobody in here said that he liked this album because of its profound meaning. You want him to write about his life? Go listen to farkin' Jewel.

His lyrics are great because they perfectly fit the mood and melody of the songs, they are imaginative and moving and his delivery is incredible.

Oh, and, "Indulgence-era Dylan" was the best Dylan, and I don't much care for Salinger's writing. In fact, I prefer my books to have no morality comments in them.

Right on goodbomb. The lyrics do stump me sometimes, I sometimes catch myself when I am wailing "Jesus Christ I love you", it's a tough album to classify so disagreements are par for the course.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: Even if those lyrics were really meaningless, who cares? Nobody in here said that he liked this album because of its profound meaning.

Amen. I love the lyrics because they're meaningless. And honestly, most of them aren't. I like the nonsense because it forces me to apply those lyrics to my life. They mean different things to different people. I listen and pick up the Anne Frank references, then get lost in the rest.

If you want obvious, force-fed lyrics, go listen to country music. "I love this bar" and "We'll put a boot in your ass" do nothing for me.

"And wanting something warm and moving
Bends towards herself the soothing
Proves that she must still exist
She moves herself about her fist"

...challenge me, make me think, and move me.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: goodbomb: i'm sorry but this is faux-significant.

Faux-significant, eh?

Even if those lyrics were really meaningless, who cares? Nobody in here said that he liked this album because of its profound meaning. You want him to write about his life? Go listen to farkin' Jewel.

His lyrics are great because they perfectly fit the mood and melody of the songs, they are imaginative and moving and his delivery is incredible.

Oh, and, "Indulgence-era Dylan" was the best Dylan, and I don't much care for Salinger's writing. In fact, I prefer my books to have no morality comments in them.

so you read only instruction books then? because morality one could argue is addressed even in an indirect way in every novel ever written. even the lack of morality is a comment on it.

to say that you like something because it sounds good is one thing. but you know there is artists who actually are able to have meaning and to sound pretty. both are acceptable and are perfectly valid. not all lyrics with meaning are straight forward either.

/singing about jesus isn't deep or about morality, it is about being plumb-fark out of ideas about real life.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: goodbomb: i'm sorry but this is faux-significant.

You want him to write about his life? Go listen to farkin' Jewel.

His lyrics are great because they perfectly fit the mood and melody of the songs, they are imaginative and moving and his delivery is incredible.

Oh, and, "Indulgence-era Dylan" was the best Dylan, and I don't much care for Salinger's writing. In fact, I prefer my books to have no morality comments in them.

well. you and I are definitely gonna end up disagreeing.

I love dylan. dylan's a genius. and that probably IS dylan's best period (highway 61?) but at least dylan knows he's putting on. "mama's in the bathroom she ain't got no shoes' etc. but you know. indulging is often synonmous with 'expirimenting' and a lot of dylan's expiriments were sucessful (ballad of a thin man). i guess the best comparison is something like 'stuck inside of mobile' which to me is 180% better than anything on neutral milk hotel.

Jewel? wow. Jewel is the exact same faux-signifigance that i'm talking about. "who will sa-y-ave you soul" is not so different from "I love you jesus christ" if you overlook the difference in the quality of the music.

the opposite of faux-signifgance to me is either a) real significance like 'blowing in the wind' or 'in my life' or 'i don't live today' or many many many other good songs. or b) admission of non-signifance like 'now i wanna sniff some glue' or 'i live for cars and girls' (dictators) or even 'whole lotta shakin going on' or 'tutti frutti' or something.

this is rock and roll we're talking about.

I agree about his delivery, but when you say they "perfectly fit the mood and the melody." right. "impressionistic" they don't say anything, they just seem to.

Omorda:

word

THIS JUST IN: DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT MUSIC!

More at eleven.

carmody: THIS JUST IN: DIFFERENT PEOPLE LIKE DIFFERENT MUSIC!

More at eleven.

cop out. some things are good, some things suck. if we just say "whatever, its all relative" we'll be left with a whole giant pile of crap. (example: the current music scene). i disagree with you.

Omorda: The Duke of Carrot Flowers: goodbomb: i'm sorry but this is faux-significant.

Faux-significant, eh?

Even if those lyrics were really meaningless, who cares? Nobody in here said that he liked this album because of its profound meaning. You want him to write about his life? Go listen to farkin' Jewel.

His lyrics are great because they perfectly fit the mood and melody of the songs, they are imaginative and moving and his delivery is incredible.

Oh, and, "Indulgence-era Dylan" was the best Dylan, and I don't much care for Salinger's writing. In fact, I prefer my books to have no morality comments in them.

so you read only instruction books then? because morality one could argue is addressed even in an indirect way in every novel ever written. even the lack of morality is a comment on it.

to say that you like something because it sounds good is one thing. but you know there is artists who actually are able to have meaning and to sound pretty. both are acceptable and are perfectly valid. not all lyrics with meaning are straight forward either.

/singing about jesus isn't deep or about morality, it is about being plumb-fark out of ideas about real life.



Yes, one could argue that, but one would look like a hair-splitting buffoon. Every word ever written is tainted with ideology. Everyone knows that. You know what I meant when I said that, but you wanted to nit-pick. Good for you.

I know that there are artists like that. Are they better than Magnum because they combine meaning and aesthetics? Do I care? Did you even hear the album?

goodbomb:

this is rock and roll we're talking about.


Exactly.You don't seem to understand that.

What point is there in arguing about this? This album rocks my socks off. That's all I care about.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers: Omorda: The Duke of Carrot Flowers: goodbomb: i'm sorry but this is faux-significant.

Faux-significant, eh?

Even if those lyrics were really meaningless, who cares? Nobody in here said that he liked this album because of its profound meaning. You want him to write about his life? Go listen to farkin' Jewel.

His lyrics are great because they perfectly fit the mood and melody of the songs, they are imaginative and moving and his delivery is incredible.

Oh, and, "Indulgence-era Dylan" was the best Dylan, and I don't much care for Salinger's writing. In fact, I prefer my books to have no morality comments in them.

so you read only instruction books then? because morality one could argue is addressed even in an indirect way in every novel ever written. even the lack of morality is a comment on it.

to say that you like something because it sounds good is one thing. but you know there is artists who actually are able to have meaning and to sound pretty. both are acceptable and are perfectly valid. not all lyrics with meaning are straight forward either.

/singing about jesus isn't deep or about morality, it is about being plumb-fark out of ideas about real life.



Yes, one could argue that, but one would look like a hair-splitting buffoon. Every word ever written is tainted with ideology. Everyone knows that. You know what I meant when I said that, but you wanted to nit-pick. Good for you.

I know that there are artists like that. Are they better than Magnum because they combine meaning and aesthetics? Do I care? Did you even hear the album?

no i'm not being a hair splitting buffoon. i am simply stating a truth that apparently everyone knows. i'm not nit picking, the very nature of stories is thoughts on life, morality and entertainment/information. there is no such thing as a book with no sense of morality because every bit of anaylzation of anything is judgement. even history books is full up with morality because they assign significance to actions. the only records of human behavior with no judgement have no human factor to them at all, they are stats. as soon as you view or look into something morality becomes an issue. so as soon as you assign value to those stats beyond numbers than you run into morality. but aside from your shiatty attempt at snark backed by no real answers i'm intrigued at your retort, or lack of one as it may be. what books would you consider have no morality issues in them?

did i say they were better than anyone? i said both are perfectly acceptable. you are the one that said we should go listen to jewel in a off putting way. my judgement is upon your looking down on someone writing music about their life. i personally like the album but i like it for a different reason than i like a frank zappa album. it is the same reason i like motorhead differently than i like radiohead. style and substance can go together in music or they can be on their own. that is where personal preference comes in. i'm not shiatting on anyones tastes at all.

/fark you would think when i'm defending both sides the person wouldn't be so ospulent with insults.

opulent.

fark .

/must do one post at time next time.
//not use the word time so much.

goodbomb: "impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

HAHAHA OH WOW

Next time you talk about nonsense, make sure you're not the one spewing it

Omorda:
no i'm not being a hair splitting buffoon. i am simply stating a truth that apparently everyone knows. i'm not nit picking, the very nature of stories is thoughts on life, morality and entertainment/information. there is no such thing as a book with no sense of morality because every bit of anaylzation of anything is judgement. even history books is full up with morality because they assign significance to actions. the only records of human behavior with no judgement have no human factor to them at all, they are stats. as soon as you view or look into something morality becomes an issue. so as soon as you assign value to those stats beyond numbers than you run into morality. but aside from your shiatty attempt at snark backed by no real answers i'm intrigued at your retort, or lack of one as it may be. what books would you consider have no morality issues in them?

did i say they were better than anyone? i said both are perfectly acceptable. you are the one that said we should go listen to jewel in a off putting way. my judgement is upon your looking down on someone writing music about their life. i personally like the album but i like it for a different reason than i like a frank zappa album. it is the same reason i like motorhead differently than i like radiohead. style and substance can go together in music or they can be on their own. that is where personal preference comes in. i'm not shiatting on anyones tastes at all.

/fark you would think when i'm defending both sides the person wouldn't be so ospulent with insults.

I was only mocking him in that way because he was basing his entire criticism of NMH on the fact that Magnum's lyrics aren't about his personal life. It was sarcasm. Ill-executed sarcasm, but still, sarcasm.

As for my beef with "moral-comments" book, well, as I said, I'm pretty well aware of the fact that every cultural production is rife with ideology, moral POV, etc. What I don't like, and I should be more specific since it's clear that I wasn't enough in my previous comments, are blatantly ideological works of art: Kundera's, Sartre's, Heinlein's, Rand's, etc. Those who are so willing/eager to teach with art are annoying to me. I guess my only beef is with the perceived intent of the writer. If I want to read about philosophy/ethics, I read a philosophy book.

Nabokov, Volodine, Le Clézio, Paul Auster, Michel Leiris, Boulgakov, are all great writers who, one could argue, are not so dead set on making "moral comments".

deevo: goodbomb: "impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

HAHAHA OH WOW

Next time you talk about nonsense, make sure you're not the one spewing it

well look, i didn't know that but it doesn't change what i think of the lyrics. just because it references something, doesn't mean it's not stupid.

\if I want an impressionistic song about reincarnation, i'd listen to caribou

ok, fine.

a better example:


When you were young
You were the king of carrot flowers
And how you built a tower tumbling through the trees
In holy rattlesnakes that fell all around your feet

my point is that the lyrics offer me nothing. they aren't useful to the listener. they're basicly placeholder lyrics. obscure references and inside jokes. that's not same as meaning.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers:

Nabokov, Volodine, Le Clézio, Paul Auster, Michel Leiris, Boulgakov, are all great writers who, one could argue, are not so dead set on making "moral comments".

go ahead and argue how Nabokov and Boulgakov aren't moral writers. just because the morality is complex and ambiguous doesn't mean there isn't any. what becomes of Humbert Humbert? what becomes of Pontius Pilate?

really master and margarita is one of the most morally oriented books I can think of. and awesome. honestly. it has jesus, the devil... etc. you're telling me there's no attempt to talk about morality?

goodbomb: deevo: goodbomb: "impressionistic" lyrics = nonsense mostly "now she's a little boy in spain playing pianos filled with rain" etc (and that's just one of a great many, as you know). its all very pretentious and faux-serious. i wish he would just be honest and write about his life. he's talented for sure, but he blows it.

HAHAHA OH WOW

Next time you talk about nonsense, make sure you're not the one spewing it

well look, i didn't know that but it doesn't change what i think of the lyrics. just because it references something, doesn't mean it's not stupid.

\if I want an impressionistic song about reincarnation, i'd listen to caribou

What's so stupid about a guy so fascinated/enamored with the story of Anne Frank that he begins to think that she reincarnated into the body of a Spanish boy-pianist?

Also (I'm not suggesting that his opinion is more valid than yours), click here (new window) to find out what Dan Snaith, of Caribou, thinks about NMH and In the Aeroplane over the Sea. Interesting read.

OHHHHHHHHHHHH

Who lives in the aeroplane over the sea?

/Anne Frank does, apparently
//IGN

goodbomb: The Duke of Carrot Flowers:

Nabokov, Volodine, Le Clézio, Paul Auster, Michel Leiris, Boulgakov, are all great writers who, one could argue, are not so dead set on making "moral comments".

go ahead and argue how Nabokov and Boulgakov aren't moral writers. just because the morality is complex and ambiguous doesn't mean there isn't any. what becomes of Humbert Humbert? what becomes of Pontius Pilate?

really master and margarita is one of the most morally oriented books I can think of. and awesome. honestly. it has jesus, the devil... etc. you're telling me there's no attempt to talk about morality?

I don't think the main point/purpose of the book was ideological. But I should have chosen a clearer, better example, you're right. It's a complex book.

As for Nakobov, every preface he wrote denounced the idea that one could find moral platitudes (his word) in his books. As he once said, "style and structure are the essence of a book; great ideas are hogwash". Humbert Humbert is a caricature of a man, a complete and total loser and those who thinks of him as some sort of romantic archetype are freaking me out.

The Duke of Carrot Flowers:


What's so stupid about a guy so fascinated/enamored with the story of Anne Frank that he begins to think that she reincarnated into the body of a Spanish boy-pianist?

Also (I'm not suggesting that his opinion is more valid than yours), click here (new window) to find out what Dan Snaith, of Caribou, thinks about NMH and In the Aeroplane over the Sea. Interesting read.

my bad. that was a misunderstanding. I meant the song "Caribou" by the pixies. I don't know the band.

he can be enamored with whatever he wants but that doesn't make the lyrics good. its quirky, yes. but its not deep. its faux-deep. does "anne frank may be reincarnated in Pepito Arriola" have anything to do with anything? the "depth" is all in the "poetry" of the lyric. but my contention is that "poetry" that isn't insightful is "bad poetry."



As for Nakobov, every preface he wrote denounced the idea that one could find moral platitudes (his word) in his books. As he once said, "style and structure are the essence of a book; great ideas are hogwash". Humbert Humbert is a caricature of a man, a complete and total loser and those who thinks of him as some sort of romantic archetype are freaking me out.



I agree. it certainly isn't about platitudes and to me, its damn obvious there's nothing romantic about Humbert Humbert. but that's the thing: "a complete and total loser." its a portrait of a psychological type and a very accurate and insightful portrait. morality doesn't have to be preachy. he exposes pedophilia for what it is. farked up, regressed, completely immoral. etc. i don't think its about big ideas. I think he just paints a picture and lets you think about it. but i don't think its accurate to say the book doesn't address morality.

and by the way. "aeroplane." why use that spelling? its faux. like "Neutral Milk Hotel" sound and fury signifying nothing.

too many goddamn posts. i'm embarrassed.

I just realized. he uses "aeroplane" because it fits in metrically. it makes it two syllables instead of one.

goodbomb: and by the way. "aeroplane." why use that spelling? its faux. like "Neutral Milk Hotel" sound and fury signifying nothing.

That's how you spell aeroplane. WTF?

goodbomb: but my contention is that "poetry" that isn't insightful is "bad poetry."

Well, that's our main point of disagreement. I don't care much about this issue, and sincerely, I would rather play CIV IV than continue to argue about this, but hey, I have to clarify my position on Moral comments. I don't think that literature should be free of "moral comments", what I don't like are moralists, who use literature, to advance their causes.

And on that note,

I'm off to play CIV

danduran: goodbomb: and by the way. "aeroplane." why use that spelling? its faux. like "Neutral Milk Hotel" sound and fury signifying nothing.

That's how you spell aeroplane. WTF?

Not in the U.S. It's "faux".

Civ IV: something we can all agree on.