I have a bottle of Champagne in the fridge just for when she finally drops out.

flucto: I have a bottle of Champagne in the fridge just for when she finally drops out.

Me too. Piper-Heidesieck. The good stuff.

I hate this. Iowa is not a red state. It went red last election but it went blue in 2000, 96, 92, and 88. This sort of coastal ignorance just makes me mad. More Democrats came out for the caucus this year than Republicans as well. "They're in the middle so they must be racist and republicans" Hmm... who is more ignorant?

And Clinton can't win, even in the state of intoxication.

/the beer goggles do nothing.

brozer: Hmm... who is more ignorant?

Oh come on, these are politicians, do you really think they care about facts or if an idea is practical in the real world?

cameroncrazy1984: flucto: I have a bottle of Champagne in the fridge just for when she finally drops out.

Me too. Piper-Heidesieck. The good stuff.

Meh. If you like that sort of thing.

/1997 Veuve Cliquot Grande Dame

Yeah.

Because when I think 'Democratic-candidate-who-can-win-in-red-states' I think Hillary.

They love here there.

And she can?

In another thread, someone posted poll results of the swing states.

Hillary lost to McCain soundly in 15 states.
Obama lost to McCain in 7 states, by a much smaller margin (all of which Hillary also lost).

Also... Hillary? PROTIP: When the last two elections were determined by swing states that narrowly edged out the Democratic candidate by a handful of people, you probably shouldn't just farking give up on them because 1: They tend to lean slightly red and 2: They went to Obama. Regardless of your policies, it's clear to all but a blind, deaf LaRouche supporter that you would lose the general election.

But...

I thought that's why Barack winning red states wasn't important, because they'd never vote Democrat in a general election.

Now... now she says... *sniff*... I'm so confused.

/crocodile tears

brozer: I hate this. Iowa is not a red state. It went red last election but it went blue in 2000, 96, 92, and 88. This sort of coastal ignorance just makes me mad. More Democrats came out for the caucus this year than Republicans as well. "They're in the middle so they must be racist and republicans" Hmm... who is more ignorant?

well, iowa has voted republican in six of the last ten presidential elections, so they are certainly a purple state, which i think was the submitter's point.

http://www.270towin.com/states/Iowa

Did she actually say Obama can't win red states? I didn't see it in TFA.

Obama could move over Iowa, Virgina, West Virginia, Missouri, Colorado, New Mexico, maybe Ohio... conceivably even somewhere like North Dakota.

According to polling, Clinton could lose Oregon, Wisconsin, Minnesota, and maybe Pennsylvania from Kerry's 2004 map. She might or might not be able to pick up Arkansas in the general.

Oh, yeah, but Florida, while close, is just too much hassle and shenanigans. I think Obama might be on the right track of not paying too much attention to America's Wang.

brozer: I hate this. Iowa is not a red state.

I think what they're ignoring is that a significant number of Republicans (myself in this category) don't particularly LIKE McCain, detest Hillary, and are neutral to slightly pro-Obama based on his attitude and intelligence. He hasn't really pissed me off on anything I can't live with (I'm not a single-issue voter), and I don't care if he's African-American, despite me being a red-state white Suthron GOB.

He lacks some experience, but the same is true of Hillary. McCain's just sort of...nuts. He's got that lack of impulse control that bothers me a lot, in addition to his age, and there's some hanky-panky with Anheuser-Busch that no-one's dragged into the open yet.

So if it comes down to Hillary-McCain, I'm voting McCain, if it's Obama-McCain, unless Obama does something pretty heinous before the elections I'll vote Obama, and I know a lot of other people that feel the same way.

Fools! Think of the Motherland !!

Obama might not be able to win red states(and he could really stand to run a bit further left economically, IMO: there's no good reason why Alabama and West Virginia should be voting for the party of cutting taxes on the rich) but he'd certainly do better in them than Clinton.

erewhon: brozer: I hate this. Iowa is not a red state.

I think what they're ignoring is that a significant number of Republicans (myself in this category) don't particularly LIKE McCain, detest Hillary, and are neutral to slightly pro-Obama based on his attitude and intelligence. He hasn't really pissed me off on anything I can't live with (I'm not a single-issue voter), and I don't care if he's African-American, despite me being a red-state white Suthron GOB.

He lacks some experience, but the same is true of Hillary. McCain's just sort of...nuts. He's got that lack of impulse control that bothers me a lot, in addition to his age, and there's some hanky-panky with Anheuser-Busch that no-one's dragged into the open yet.

So if it comes down to Hillary-McCain, I'm voting McCain, if it's Obama-McCain, unless Obama does something pretty heinous before the elections I'll vote Obama, and I know a lot of other people that feel the same way.

You are proof that America is sane.

erewhon I think what they're ignoring is that a significant number of Republicans (myself in this category) don't particularly LIKE McCain, detest Hillary, and are neutral to slightly pro-Obama based on his attitude and intelligence. He hasn't really pissed me off on anything I can't live with (I'm not a single-issue voter), and I don't care if he's African-American, despite me being a red-state white Suthron GOB.

He lacks some experience, but the same is true of Hillary. McCain's just sort of...nuts. He's got that lack of impulse control that bothers me a lot, in addition to his age, and there's some hanky-panky with Anheuser-Busch that no-one's dragged into the open yet.

So if it comes down to Hillary-McCain, I'm voting McCain, if it's Obama-McCain, unless Obama does something pretty heinous before the elections I'll vote Obama, and I know a lot of other people that feel the same way.

So you choose your candidate based on personality alone?

I just don't get how a conservative could vote for this guy.

Clinton: "Don't vote for Obama because he can't win Red States."
Clinton: "Obama is winning red states, they don't count."

Obama is more likely to win the red states, doesn't Hillary's 35 years of experience include understanding of polls and basic mathematics?

You'd think after having suffered a full year of nonsensical polls that showed Clinton and Giuliani as shoe-ins for their parties' nominations, we wouldn't be citing polls almost a year out from the general election...

I'm going to be brutally honest for one second.

Obama didn't get to where he is by laying flat on his back.

Man, woman, regardless of race; no one likes that.

MFL: I just don't get how a conservative could vote for this guy.

When it comes to claiming conservative principles vs giving them lip service, you might realize that the Republican party doesn't really stand for anything conservative; or, at least, what it meant to be conservative 10 years ago.

brozer

You've got a point. Iowa has a lot of Democrats. They're just not liberal Democrats.

MFL: I just don't get how a conservative could vote for this guy.

Perhaps because the liberal-conservative spectrum grossly simplifies politics. Obama is asking people to take responsibility for their country, for students to work in community/national service for their financial aid, and overall for a grassroots approach to politics that doesn't require the government forcing people to do things.

Bush is supposedly conservative and has relied entirely on government and interventionism. And on many of those issues McCain has gone along with him. Especially Iraq.

It's not 'personality' so much as style of leadership.

MFL: So you choose your candidate based on personality alone?

Nope. But there's more to the presidency than a rubber-stamp label of "conservative" or "liberal". It's not so black and white, at least not for me.

Personality is a component of it, because it tells you something about how a person will react to new situations. I don't like McCain's personality, because based on accounts, he's got a serious impulse control issue, which is not what I want in a president. McCain's also not really been up for the Reagan Award for Conservatism himself, if you want to get down to it, he's more of a RINO.

There's also some issues I have that I can't prove on Fark, just wait until those Le Monde photos come out.

brozer: I hate this. Iowa is not a red state. It went red last election but it went blue in 2000, 96, 92, and 88. This sort of coastal ignorance just makes me mad. More Democrats came out for the caucus this year than Republicans as well. "They're in the middle so they must be racist and republicans" Hmm... who is more ignorant?

More Democrats than Republicans have voted in every single primary and caucus so far except in Alabama and Utah. That doesn't say anything.

The opportunity presented by the Obama candidacy will be pissed away in some ADD related failure.

Patience, kids. The neocons ain't near done with you yet.

Well, according to some Republicans, Obama is the anti-Christ. Of course he's going to win the red states. And then he's going to kill us all. 2012 is the end of his first 4 years...and then end of the world. Coincidence? The guy on the radio yesterday thinks not.

McCain never does well in Iowa because he realizes corn ethanol is a scam and doesn't support farm subsidies to ecourage its production.

The problem with Hillary was that she was going to capitalize on her husband's run and invoke a sense of nostalgia to get into the White House. Usually this would be a good bet (especially after the failure of a president we have now), but she failed on two counts:

1) She's still another relation of a former president and the spectre of nepotism will hang over her head, and...

2) She doesn't really grasp how badly Bush farked us all over. We require more than mere '90s nostalgia now. We need a new plan, and nothing in line with the past. Backwards thinking leads us to regressive policies. What we do not need right now is people who market towards some pathetic illusion of yesteryear, but someone who can see forward and do right by us. Obama has that. Hillary and everybody else does not.

Yes, lets never even try to win states that have been red in the past, thats a winning strategy.

Have the Hill-Handlers determined to go hack-the-nuts in the Ohio debate?

It's the final round. This is no time to fight fair. You need a knock-out to win this. If Obama ain't kissing the canvas after Ohio, you lose. Quit now or bust out the jams.

/Ohio debate gonna be FULL of win

Guntram Shatterhand: 2) She doesn't really grasp how badly Bush farked us all over. We require more than mere '90s nostalgia now. We need a new plan, and nothing in line with the past. Backwards thinking leads us to regressive policies. What we do not need right now is people who market towards some pathetic illusion of yesteryear, but someone who can see forward and do right by us. Obama has that. Hillary and everybody else does not.

This? Or Win? I can't decide. I think both.

MFL: I just don't get how a conservative could vote for this guy.

Shaggy_C When it comes to claiming conservative principles vs giving them lip service, you might realize that the Republican party doesn't really stand for anything conservative; or, at least, what it meant to be conservative 10 years ago.

I do realize that the republican party has a problem being conservate. There are some issues the party needs to iron out. But just because they have problems doesn't mean you jump ship and vote for the exact opposite of what your core beliefs supposedly are. That is if you had any core conservative beliefs in the first place.

mferris
*Picture*

HAHAHAHAHAHA Holy Fark who put all the win in your coffee today? I laughed so hard my farking side hurts!

/mferris + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1

erewhon

McCain's also not really been up for the Reagan Award for Conservatism himself, if you want to get down to it, he's more of a RINO.

Given that Reagan was the least economically conservative president in modern history, isn't that a good thing?

Remember Hillary started her career as a lawyer.

McCain, on the other hand, is just a fish.

mferris
*snortchuckle*

I award you 3 internets. Spend them wisely.

Haha thanks.. I just threw it together, turned out pretty good for my amateur PS skills. :-)

Thanks Gosling

MFL: I do realize that the republican party has a problem being conservate. There are some issues the party needs to iron out. But just because they have problems doesn't mean you jump ship and vote for the exact opposite of what your core beliefs supposedly are. That is if you had any core conservative beliefs in the first place.

So...just trying to get my head around your political leanings...
Your "conservative" party no longer holds to conservative prinicples. But rather than abandon them for bailing on the priniciples you hold dear, you will stick with them - despite the fact that they no longer represent what you believe.
Hmmm. Perhaps the exact opposite of that which no longer represents your core belief...

/Costanza

MFL: MFL: I just don't get how a conservative could vote for this guy.

Shaggy_C When it comes to claiming conservative principles vs giving them lip service, you might realize that the Republican party doesn't really stand for anything conservative; or, at least, what it meant to be conservative 10 years ago.

I do realize that the republican party has a problem being conservate. There are some issues the party needs to iron out. But just because they have problems doesn't mean you jump ship and vote for the exact opposite of what your core beliefs supposedly are. That is if you had any core conservative beliefs in the first place.

Well, for one thing, he has promised to lower taxes on the lower and middle classes, while raising taxes on the upper class. That might appeal to some conservatives.

MFL: So you choose your candidate based on personality alone?

erewhon Nope. But there's more to the presidency than a rubber-stamp label of "conservative" or "liberal". It's not so black and white, at least not for me.

Personality is a component of it, because it tells you something about how a person will react to new situations. I don't like McCain's personality, because based on accounts, he's got a serious impulse control issue, which is not what I want in a president. McCain's also not really been up for the Reagan Award for Conservatism himself, if you want to get down to it, he's more of a RINO.

There's also some issues I have that I can't prove on Fark, just wait until those Le Monde photos come out.

I'm not a McCain guy either but I could never bring myself to vote Obama/Hillary (their policies are pretty much the same) no matter how well he gives a speech. If something happens with McCain and I decide not to vote for him, I'll just vote in the congressional races and write in Bill Buckley for president.

MFL: I do realize that the republican party has a problem being conservate. There are some issues the party needs to iron out. But just because they have problems doesn't mean you jump ship and vote for the exact opposite of what your core beliefs supposedly are. That is if you had any core conservative beliefs in the first place.

The only 'conservative' principle I agree with is fiscal conservatism. I don't think we should be the world's police, we shouldn't have a government that spies and tortures, and I don't think we should shun science for religion. Given that Republicans can't even balance a budget correctly, I have no qualms hopping to the other side. Besides, Obama would even cut my taxes.

Sulfus: MFL: MFL: I just don't get how a conservative could vote for this guy.

Shaggy_C When it comes to claiming conservative principles vs giving them lip service, you might realize that the Republican party doesn't really stand for anything conservative; or, at least, what it meant to be conservative 10 years ago.

I do realize that the republican party has a problem being conservate. There are some issues the party needs to iron out. But just because they have problems doesn't mean you jump ship and vote for the exact opposite of what your core beliefs supposedly are. That is if you had any core conservative beliefs in the first place.

Well, for one thing, he has promised to lower taxes on the lower and middle classes, while raising taxes on the upper class. That might appeal to some conservatives.

TRANSLATION: OMFG!!! Osama's gonna raise taxes!

It's only a matter of time before the left starts preaching that unless you vote for Obama, you're a racist.