I thought we'd bombed them all.

Canada has a higher troop:population ratio in Afghanistan than any other NATO nation in the conflict, including the USA. They're also a little pissed that the USA brought them into a war as an ally and then well before the job was finished said "we're gonna go fight in Iraq now, let us know how this one turns out, okay?"

Being an ally of the US these days is like playing on a baseball team where the entire outfield has attention deficit disorder.

FFS. I hate you, Conservative Party.

We better get some farking support over there before I agree to this.

Now that I think about it, screw the Liberals for not being ready for an election yet and pandering to the Conservatives. Should have forced it by 2009.

Doran: Now that I think about it, screw the Liberals for not being ready for an election yet

...that would have resulted in another Conservative minority government, and will should an election be held in the next 6 to 8 months.

What makes it worse for the Liberal Party is Dion. He's not an effective leader, and will never lead the party to a majority government.

To be honest, it doesn't really matter too much who gets in power so long as they only form a minority government. I hate to think of the damage Harper would be doing if he was able to simply force his agenda through parliament. Things may happen more slowly with a minority government, but at least change comes in the form of well reasoned compromise instead of "bend over and take it".

My fear is Dion is such an ineffective leader that he may end up giving the Conservatives a majority government.

Ghastly: Canada has a higher troop:population ratio in Afghanistan than any other NATO nation in the conflict, including the USA. They're also a little pissed that the USA brought them into a war as an ally and then well before the job was finished said "we're gonna go fight in Iraq now, let us know how this one turns out, okay?"

Being an ally of the US these days is like playing on a baseball team where the entire outfield has attention deficit disorder.

US troops in Afghanistan: 24,000
Canadian troops in Afghanistan: 2,500

US casualties: 480
Canadian casualties: 78

Yeah, that's a pretty sad little token force we left you guys with.

I understand your point regarding the troop/population ratio, and I'd just like to say that I was against the war in Iraq before it began and that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Canada's military forces and their selfless sacrifice, but seriously dude - f*ck you. Some of us do have friends and family over there.

I'd like to see the Libs and the Cons hold alternate minority governments, and have the NDs perpetually be the official opposition (until the Greens gain more experience and clout), as I await the resurrection of the Progressive Conservatives, who will rise again like a Viagra'd pecker, with Joe Clark as the mighty shaft and Peter MacKay as the taint...

what were we talking about again? Oh, yeah...

I agree with brother Liver here. It's the failings of the European nations, not the US, that continues to overburden a select few forces.

submitter: Canada has troops in Afghanistan

The best snipers in theater have been Canadians....

Bob_Laublaw: It's the failings of the NATO

FTFY

goeniegoegoe: FTFY

Oops sorry, I meant to strike through your European Nations thing.

My Liver Hurts: but seriously dude - f*ck you. Some of us do have friends and family over there.

WTF made you think I was pissed with the soldiers over there? I'm not pissed with the US troops, I'm pissed with the US politicians who have turned the whole thing into a cluster fark instead of leaving enough troops there to finish the job.

well, they set a timetable... were the terrorists emboldened? did al-qaeda circle that day on their calendar?

burndtdan: well, they set a timetable... were the terrorists emboldened? did al-qaeda circle that day on their calendar?

I think they called back and said "We've got meetings all that week, can we move the date up a week? No, no, the week after is even worse... well how about the Thursday?"

Ghastly: To be honest, it doesn't really matter too much who gets in power so long as they only form a minority government. I hate to think of the damage Harper would be doing if he was able to simply force his agenda through parliament. Things may happen more slowly with a minority government, but at least change comes in the form of well reasoned compromise instead of "bend over and take it".

My fear is Dion is such an ineffective leader that he may end up giving the Conservatives a majority government.

I couldn't agree anymore. If only want minority governments from now on. It actually forces a debate amongst the parties and I feel is how parliament should operate.

Bob_Laublaw: What makes it worse for the Liberal Party is Dion. He's not an effective leader, and will never lead the party to a majority government.

You're in my brain again...

Bob_Laublaw: as I await the resurrection of the Progressive Conservatives, who will rise again like a Viagra'd pecker, with Joe Clark as the mighty shaft and Peter MacKay as the taint...

What do you want to bet Belinda's strap-on was too big?

My Liver Hurts: I understand your point regarding the troop/population ratio, and I'd just like to say that I was against the war in Iraq before it began and that I have nothing but the utmost respect for Canada's military forces and their selfless sacrifice, but seriously dude - f*ck you. Some of us do have friends and family over there.

Easy there. I don't think he meant anything against the troops over there. Still, he's completely correct in the idea that the United States completely dumped the Afghani conflict on the laps of our allies and split. It wasn't out of cowardice or any fault of the military, it was the siphoning of resources into Iraq and out of Afghanistan that did it.

If you have friends or family over there, you should be pissed - but not at Ghastly for saying what he said. You should be furious at the government for putting your loved one in harms way and then yanking the support out from under them. Because that's exactly what we did.

Yes, Canada has troops over there. It's a huge issue about whether to keep them over there or not. Without them, the Afghani government is screwed. And if they stay, some assholes are going to keep blowing them up while they try to perform peacekeeping and humanitarian work. I'm still kinda freaked out that I knew one of the people who was killed there.

Canadian Canuck: Ghastly: To be honest, it doesn't really matter too much who gets in power so long as they only form a minority government. I hate to think of the damage Harper would be doing if he was able to simply force his agenda through parliament. Things may happen more slowly with a minority government, but at least change comes in the form of well reasoned compromise instead of "bend over and take it".

My fear is Dion is such an ineffective leader that he may end up giving the Conservatives a majority government.

I couldn't agree anymore. If only want minority governments from now on. It actually forces a debate amongst the parties and I feel is how parliament should operate.

We could almost enforce a minority government by introducing proportional representation. Greens would finally get some seats too.

Yes, but Canada also brought a Tim Hortons to Afghanistan thereby making it a much better place. If only they could spread further into the US.

//nearest one is in Ashland, KY
//I regularly drive 2 hours to get me some.

Hey, that sounds almost exactly like John McCain's projected time of troop departure; 2101. Just rearrange the numbers! Creeeeeeepy!

yeah we're doing the job of toasting bin laden-
something that america forgot to follow through on

and instead invaded a completely unrelated country

unlawfully and bizarrely


give us a hand, man
match our dead

angrymacface: Yes, but Canada also brought a Tim Hortons to Afghanistan thereby making it a much better place. If only they could spread further into the US.

//nearest one is in Ashland, KY
//I regularly drive 2 hours to get me some.

you =

Ghastly 2008-02-23 05:46:22 PM My Liver Hurts: but seriously dude - f*ck you. Some of us do have friends and family over there. WTF made you think I was pissed with the soldiers over there? I'm not pissed with the US troops, I'm pissed with the US politicians who have turned the whole thing into a cluster fark instead of leaving enough troops there to finish the job.
================

You fail to realize that he's conservative. And you fail to realize that conservatives equate 'I hate Bush and this war' to 'I want the troops to burn in hell'.

We'd like to think people (inc the media) would finally start to understand the difference, but alas, they probably won't.

We to clarify, as a former soldier myself I most certainly do not want the troops to burn in hell. I want them to have a Commander In Chief who is not a total idiot.

sacrileg:
We could almost enforce a minority government by introducing proportional representation. Greens would finally get some seats too.

Very true. However it will take time for it to be adopted. For example, BC was very close (56/44) to switching to STV and that was with no media coverage nor anyone knowing what it was. I wouldn't be surprised if this time around they pump a lot of money into it and having it pass.

Doran: FFS. I hate you, Conservative Party.

We better get some farking support over there before I agree to this.

I'm still pissed off that the Conservatives sent our boys over there in the first place.

Ghastly: My fear is Dion is such an ineffective leader that he may end up giving the Conservatives a majority government.

Agreed. I really hope that Dion realizes his limitations, and pushes to keep it as a Conservative minority government. He isn't Prime Minister material, and Canada knows it. He's good as a whiny opposition biatcher, though. Sort of like a French Jack Layton.

On the subject of the US in Afghanistan: Yeah, there's alot of Americans in Afghanistan. Not as many as there should be - the job in Afghanistan isn't done, and the way things are going, likely will never be done - but there is still a huge presence of American Forces there. And what many of us Canadians fail to take into account much of the time is that our Military, while it's got alot of heart and some great training (an ex-roommate of mine is a reservist who loves to talk about training with Americans - it's the only time where they can take a dozen shots to adjust the sights on their rifles. Other times, they just don't have enough bullets to waste on adjusting the scope. Same goes with pretty much all training where you need to shoot something, be it a bullet, a bomb, etc.), it doesn't have the manpower, the equipment or the overall support that it needs to be as effective as we need it to be. So alot of the biatching we do should be focused on the Liberal government of the early 90's to mid-2000's, and not on NATO or the US.

(It's part of the reason I want a Conservative minority for our government; they'll bring our Military back up to the proper size.)

Still, it would have been nice for everyone - US, Canadian, Afghani, Iraqi, etc. - if the US had kept their full force in Afghanistan, fixed the problems there, and not moved on to the higher-profile fight in Iraq.

Dancin_In_Anson: submitter: Canada has troops in Afghanistan

The best snipers in theater have been Canadians....

Damn.

Reminder to self: do not cut off the Newfoundland rum supply.

Bob_Laublaw: What makes it worse for the Liberal Party is Dion. He's not an effective leader, and will never lead the party to a majority government.

Dude, TOTALLY. I was once behind him but more and more I regret their decision to choose him over Ignatieff.

wadek5: I'm still pissed off that the Conservatives sent our boys over there in the first place.

The Liberals sent our troops there, dude.

Dude.

wadek5: Doran: FFS. I hate you, Conservative Party.

We better get some farking support over there before I agree to this.

I'm still pissed off that the Conservatives sent our boys over there in the first place.

Uhhhh... The Liberals sent our troops to Afghanistan.

And I would like to send a HUGE STFU to the subby who seems to overlook the fact Canada has been in charge of the most dangerous part of the country for years now with little to no support that doesn't come in the way of American bombs on their heads.

It's NATO's failure... Having countries that restrict their troops from a combat role, and have them peacekeeping in the comparatively peaceful regions of the country.

Kudos to FRANCE of all countries for offering up 700 more troops to support Canada in the south.

I'll make fun of Canada as much as the next guy, but going back to at least WWI the Canadians have fielded (on a man-by-man basis) one of the best armies in the world (probably better than the US if you take away our budgetary and technological edge). Thankfully for us, Canada and the UK are the only NATO allies who take their responsibilities seriously. We're lucky to have a country like Canada behind us and I hope we can keep them in the field.

In other news, the "Canada has an army?" joke is overplayed and kinda disrespectful to the allies you've bombed then abandoned in order to start a war on two fronts.

Wanna see our soldiers fight? Try liveleak. It's weird to hear soldiers yell "Frag Oot!" before they throw a grenade.

Then again, it's weird to see our soldiers fighting at all.

ace0spades: And I would like to send a HUGE STFU to the subby who seems to overlook the fact Canada has been in charge of the most dangerous part of the country for years now with little to no support that doesn't come in the way of American bombs on their heads.

The USAF has and continues to provide crucial close air support to Canadian Forces involved in firefights. While the friendly fire incident was certainly tragic, far more Canadian soldiers have been saved by air strikes than killed.

quizybuck: but going back to at least WWI the Canadians have fielded (on a man-by-man basis) one of the best armies in the world

Actually our army - specifically our best General Arthur Currie - revolutionized infantry warfare in WW1. The Creeping Barrage, real-time airborne radio recon (yes, we did invent that!), cross-training for all troops (Which we still do) and different organizational structure to make sure every soldier knows the score, so to speak. Until that time, we were cannon fodder for the British, just like the Aussies.
Currie was all like "fark THIS!" and he reorganized our troops. He was our best military mind, and we owe him for making our stupid army into an incredible one that we underfund and overburden but train like mad.

Rommel was rumored to have said something like "Give me German officers, American equipment and Canadian troops, and I'll kick everyone's ass" or words to that effect.

/probably bullshiat, but flattering nonetheless.

I give up.

It's "it's".

quizybuck: While the friendly fire incident was certainly tragic, far more Canadian soldiers have been saved by air strikes than killed.

One of the kids that were bombed - Dyer, I think his name was - lived on my block. Not that I'm special, it's just strange when something like that happens in Toronto.. well, it WAS strange. Pretty commonplace now that the dead are piling up.

It wouldn't have been so bad if bush hadn't decided to screw us over softwood lumber practically the very next day. He was like "fark NAFTA. Oh yeah, sorry about the troops. Now watch this drive."

Can't we ask America to send Rambo back there? If I recall correctly, it's entirely his fault anyway. He single-handedly rallied the mujahedeen to take back their country, creating a safe haven for Osama Bin Laden. Therefore, Rambo caused 9/11. Fun game: Watch Rambo III and try to pick out the character that looks most like Osama.

Dude

Canadian Canuck: sacrileg:
We could almost enforce a minority government by introducing proportional representation. Greens would finally get some seats too.

Very true. However it will take time for it to be adopted. For example, BC was very close (56/44) to switching to STV and that was with no media coverage nor anyone knowing what it was. I wouldn't be surprised if this time around they pump a lot of money into it and having it pass.

I live in BC, and trust me when I say there was a lot of media coverage. We had just dealt with a very disproportionate legislature (all but two seats belonged to the Liberals), and the offer of change was pretty much everywhere in the news. STV is a very complicated system, though, and many people blame that for the downfall.

PR sounds nice, but honestly I think it'll muddle up our government too much. A government has to govern, not just discuss things. The median voter is always going to win, anyways.

Now: an EEE senate? Definitely would like that.

/equal, elected, effective.

Yeah, they have troops over there. Every once in a while you hear about them forgetting to run away after calling a strike on their own position.

What about POLAND?

Won't anyone think of the goofy Polocks?

yeah it isn't like a canadian general is in command of southern afganistan.


/pplci

/Thanks for helping out in Afghanistan, Canucks.

Ghastly: Being an ally of the US these days is like playing on a baseball team where the entire outfield has attention deficit disorder.

This. Canadian losses in Afghanistan have mostly been at the hands of Americans. Friendly fire, my ass.

Ghastly


WTF made you think I was pissed with the soldiers over there? I'm not pissed with the US troops, I'm pissed with the US politicians who have turned the whole thing into a cluster fark instead of leaving enough troops there to finish the job.


The United States has over a division in Afghanistan. We've certainly contributed our fair share of troops to that theater.

Now, if only the same could be said for Canada, which hasn't contributed its fair share of troops to the NATO Alliance in 15 years. Defense funding is just sad, your fighters are verging on obsolescence, your navy isn't even a match for Spain, and you only now just realized that replacing your 30 year old tanks might be a good idea.

Oh, and btw, before mouthing off about being left out to dry in Afghanistan, keep in mind who got you there (American transports) and who provides you with air support (American fighters).

Am I the only one who was hoping that we'd all be out of Afghanistan by 2011?