well now, this is an interesting development.

Awwww.... that whole due process thing gettin' under your skin, Skippy?

/Hero tag on the disabled list?

"Get a warrant!"

Kinda hard to "get a warrant" when the call is coming from out of our country into our country and we don't know where it is going to until we tap it. Or do I have this wrong?

TexasIsBetter: Or do I have this wrong

Yes.

Good.

madmann: /Hero tag on the disabled list?

Second

The current system, TexasIsBetter allows for phone tapping for two days (iirc) before getting a judge to sign off on it. Too much trouble for the Bushiates, even though the secret judicial system to issue such warrants almost never turns the government down.

What is wrong with the present system (from the tappers point of view)? My speculation is that the government is not trying to capture specific calls, they want to capture everything, and sort it out later.

Sgygus: The current system, TexasIsBetter allows for phone tapping for two days (iirc) before getting a judge to sign off on it. Too much trouble for the Bushiates, even though the secret judicial system to issue such warrants almost never turns the government down.

What is wrong with the present system (from the tappers point of view)? My speculation is that the government is not trying to capture specific calls, they want to capture everything, and sort it out later.

I agree with everything you posted except the last part. I've said this before:

I really think this is just another attempt to fight of any and all oversight. No matter how trivial, this administration wants to do whatever it wants and does not feel it should have to answer or explain itself to anyone.

Why do I think the lack of cooperation is not exactly a surprise...is there a chance the Administration didn't expect it, stage it, so they could go to Congress and say, "Oh gee, now what?"

TexasIsBetter: Kinda hard to "get a warrant" when the call is coming from out of our country into our country and we don't know where it is going to until we tap it. Or do I have this wrong?

That's roughly the same theory that the typical redneck Sheriff would like to use: "Well judge, how do I know what I'm lookin' for if you don't let me go in thar and take a look see around?"

If the gov't wants to listen in on my TF phone sex, so be it.

TexasIsBetter: Kinda hard to "get a warrant" when the call is coming from out of our country into our country and we don't know where it is going to until we tap it. Or do I have this wrong?

While I'm dissapointed in how the Demoratic congress has continued to bend over to every little thing up till now I'm hoping that since the election is coming up they'll finally stand strong to secure as much support as they can. I get that the republicans are at fault for blocking most constructive bills and the president for vetoing them, but you can't deny that any little bit of a pressure was enough to make the senate fold to the administration. A lot of it is likely to make sure we're in as bad a position as possible so nobody forgets how bad Bush has screwed us, come election time, but we're suffering no matter what the rationale is.

It's more of the party over country thing. Yes, republicans are just as at fault, but not really moreso. Yeah, they're the ones who screwed up last, but we've been switching between two parties being the last one to screw up for ages. When was the last time you had one actually doing something that needed to be done even if it wouldn't score them political points?

/This is why we need Obama

best thing is that they didn't have to do anything to do this.

or does it require effort to allow a law to expire?

"The do nothing Democratic Congress finally does something"

Odd that they did it by not doing anything and just letting the spy bill expire

farking Bush, he wanted to get AIDS programs started in Africa...but he claimed that the Democratic Congress was halting the progress. Turns out that a big chunk of this aid would come in the form of abstenance (sic) only edumakayshun.

wejash

That's roughly the same theory that the typical redneck Sheriff would like to use: "Well judge, how do I know what I'm lookin' for if you don't let me go in thar and take a look see around?"

What is up with the Analogy FAIL from Farkers these days?

Actually, TexasIsBetter's assertion would be ... a Mississippi deputy wanting to search a trailer park in Arkansas for drugs that he believes are being trafficked into Mississippi without an applicable Arkansas search warrant ... the quandry being JURSIDICTION between U.S.-based phone companies and international terrorist cells using said U.S.-based operations from abroad...

NEWSFLASH: To all who are afraid that the government is JUST NOW monitoring your phone calls...the government HAS BEEN doing this for years. While I realize this goes against the nice, compartmentalized simplicity of your BDS, the current administration didn't invent this practice and they are in no way expanding it domestically...

"Don't tread on my 4th amendment rights !!!!11!111!!1!"

FTFA: The clause would effectively wipe out a series of private lawsuits seeking damages against the telecoms for their cooperation with what civil libertarians and administration critics claim CONSTITUTIONALLY was an illegal expansion of electronic spying against targets inside the U.S.

It would appear that Democrats acquire a spine during an election year. Or maybe it's just a bad outbreak of Obamania, and it'll pass in a few days.

As you read the story, you realize:

The telco companies are refusing or threatening to refuse cooperation with continuing taps based on already started (and grandfathered into legality under the first version of the Protect America Act) directives. Directives already authorized include Al-Qaeda and all affiliated groups known to U.S. Intel, their members and contacts. So as long as the Intel agencies are tracking anyone that they think is or may be related to islamic extremist terrorism they are 100% allowed to tap them for the next year.

So basically the telco companies are biatching and refusing to cooperate with UNQUESTIONABLY LEGAL taps because they have to deal with the lawsuits from people pissed that they let the government run roughshod over their customers. They're being obstinate because they didn't get the immunity they wanted.

Poor babies. And if the government had done things above board in the first place, they wouldn't have to deal with the petulant corporations. Sue them now and force the issue if they're not going to cooperate with a surveillance program that's on the books.

The government forgets the important of warrents... sure it makes theyre jobs a little tougher and they wont have as much evidence against the bad guys, but they exist for a reason... to protect everyones civil liberties.

You'll hear the argument that if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about, but if you feel that way, move to China.

Since you've never needed a warrant to eavesdrop on cell phone calls till you get enough information to get a warrant I'm getting a kick...

Oh, yeah, you can still legally eavesdrop on cell phone calls, as long as you don't use anything you heard BEFORE you get the warrant in court. Surprise!

Deneb81: They're being obstinate because they didn't get the immunity they wanted.

This is a play. They are working hard with their pals in congress to put pressure on the leadership via the public to get a bill passed with retroactive immunity.

What I want to know is, what the fark is it they know? They must be sitting on some bombshell to be pissing their pants over this.

The Bush Administration is complaining that telephone companies are telling them to "get a warrant" to tap their clients. The do nothing Democratic Congress finally does something......by doing nothing.

/Fixed that.
//Still a good thing that the law expired.

Good. Abuses are so much easier when they're all cheerfully cooperating with each other. Friction and self-serving CYA requests slow everything down.

TexasIsBetter: Kinda hard to "get a warrant" when the call is coming from out of our country into our country and we don't know where it is going to until we tap it. Or do I have this wrong?

That's some good logic there, Lou.

So, in this context, the Democratic Party is the Rule of Law Party. And the Republican Party is the ___________________ (fill in the blank)

carpbrain: So, in this context, the Democratic Party is the Rule of Law Party. And the Republican Party is the ___________________ (fill in the blank)

What is the German National Socialist Party?

I'll take Fascist Regimes for $500, Alex.

They'll let a terrorist attack happen before they'll get a stinkin' warrant. Conservatives love to use the phrase "we're just one terrorist attack away from martial law." It's their ultimate fantasy, but now they want to see it actually happen.

This is why our Constitution rocks. It gives enough latitude to let one branch push the envelope for a bit to get a job done, yet yanks that power right back before it gets abused.

Check and balance, let me show you it.

FarkingSean: that power right back before it gets abused.

...before?

Liberals will never understand why surveillance is necessary, coupled with the act of surprise.

With the spectre of domestic terror cells emerging in the United States, there should be a random tap in every American city where terror is likely to happen.

Umm... Democrats are Socialist... I went Socialist because I was enthralled by the idea of a powerful government exercising control over its citizens private lives. Forcing them to fall in line and conform. Never saw Democrats do anything but that. It's why they love the EU so much.

This post. Dems will not let the government discover and prosecute non-citizens who plan to blow shiat up, but they'll come after you foaming at the mouth if you're a Christian endorsing a politician or you want to tell little children about God. farking impressive priorities there, assholes. Save us from the Christians, PLEASE. And save the terrorists from them, too!

/Starting to get the feeling all the other farkers educational foundation is fark.
//Was registered SP-USA during Bush's first term. Flew the hammer and sickle first two years at college. Knows damn well what he's talking about.
///Wishes lying liberals felt bad about lying so they'd stop doing it.

skookum: Liberals will never understand why surveillance is necessary, coupled with the act of surprise.

With the spectre of domestic terror cells emerging in the United States, there should be a random tap in every American city where terror is likely to happen.

Hehe, try harder, that's just comical. 1/10

Heh. I've been drinking a little, I'll rephrase by saying that the ability to sample a population city by city will prove to be vital once terror cells become more commonplace in this country. Liberals have no idea of how valuable surveillance is, but it's not in our interest to educate, but to implement tested policy.

In short the telecom industry had better wise up and start cooperating, or the entire network may be seized in the national interest, and no, you don't have to rate my posts. I see no reason to do so.

skookum: Heh. I've been drinking a little, I'll rephrase by saying that the ability to sample a population city by city will prove to be vital once terror cells become more commonplace in this country. Liberals have no idea of how valuable surveillance is, but it's not in our interest to educate, but to implement tested policy.

In short the telecom industry had better wise up and start cooperating, or the entire network may be seized in the national interest, and no, you don't have to rate my posts. I see no reason to do so.

0/10. No content whatsoever.

cmunic8r99

It was about all they could do. Any proactive legislation that Bush et.el don't agree with would be vetoed, if it were able to make it passed the senate without a filibuster, that is. It just took the Dems. this long to get the opportunity where Bush's hands were effectively tied. He has the ultimate* power to veto, but he cannot unveto a bill.

*a veto can be overturned, however, the Dems. don't have a wide enough majority to do so.

Again, there is no reason to rate my posts. I am bestrowing a warning upon the liberal contingency that continues to embarrass themselves with their cute little "blows against the empire." It's time to stop now. You've had your little heyday of running around, thumbing your noses at this administration and that's it. No more games.

McCain is going to win and very likely hundreds of square miles will be quietly monitored in the interest of keeping terrorists from hatching 9/11-stu;e attacks in this country. This is going to happen. The telecom industry is dragging its feet, waiting to see if anyhone DARES challenge them. Security trumps privacy. Every time. I forsee the entire industry being impounded just to teach them a lesson.

skookum: Again, there is no reason to rate my posts. I am bestrowing a warning upon the liberal contingency that continues to embarrass themselves with their cute little "blows against the empire." It's time to stop now. You've had your little heyday of running around, thumbing your noses at this administration and that's it. No more games.

McCain is going to win and very likely hundreds of square miles will be quietly monitored in the interest of keeping terrorists from hatching 9/11-stu;e attacks in this country. This is going to happen. The telecom industry is dragging its feet, waiting to see if anyhone DARES challenge them. Security trumps privacy. Every time. I forsee the entire industry being impounded just to teach them a lesson.

Again, 0/10. No signal value whatsoever. Sorry. I'm listening, but there's nothing to hear.

Not sure what you meant by "stu;e"
bestrowing --> bestowing?
anyhone --> anyone?
forsee --> foresee?

Just guesses. You really have to dig yourself out of the gutter here, though.

And what's more, McCain will allow the camps to open, it will be his compromise to this country, for yes, I know he was held in a camp, but unjustly, as a victim of terror. No, it will take more than just wiretapping to protect us from domestic elements, tas I've said, there are being camps built at first to house illegals, then, as the Keith Olbermann's of the world cross over from "free speech" to terror-inducing calls to action, many liberals, perhaps even some of the liberals here at Fark, may indeed find themselves in these camps, doing the necessary assinged work to qualify them fit to return to society as productive citizens.

Yes, the telecoms are only the first in a series of very important steps to shake out the rats in this country, and return to a more modest national mindset. And dont insult me further with your stupid ratings, it's frankly retarded. You wouldn't know the truth if it dragged you out of your house in the middle of the night and threw you into a waiting van.

TexasIsBetter: Kinda hard to "get a warrant" when the call is coming from out of our country into our country and we don't know where it is going to until we tap it. Or do I have this wrong?

FAIL.

We can get a warrant afterwrds.

skookum: And what's more, McCain will allow the camps to open, it will be his compromise to this country, for yes, I know he was held in a camp, but unjustly, as a victim of terror. No, it will take more than just wiretapping to protect us from domestic elements, tas I've said, there are being camps built at first to house illegals, then, as the Keith Olbermann's of the world cross over from "free speech" to terror-inducing calls to action, many liberals, perhaps even some of the liberals here at Fark, may indeed find themselves in these camps, doing the necessary assinged work to qualify them fit to return to society as productive citizens.

Yes, the telecoms are only the first in a series of very important steps to shake out the rats in this country, and return to a more modest national mindset. And dont insult me further with your stupid ratings, it's frankly retarded. You wouldn't know the truth if it dragged you out of your house in the middle of the night and threw you into a waiting van.

Again, 0/10. No content whatsoever. Please help me out here, snookums.

Yes, keep up your inane one-liners, perhaps they'll make fabulous Fark cliches, otherwise, as I've said, I don't have to educate you on this, if you haven't caught on by now and gotten on board, you are an ignornant liberal that will be dealt with once the cleanup happens in this country. Your smug, singleminded bullying deserves nothing less.

Again, for the third time, being able to access information from telecoms for purposes of national security effectively trumps the Constitution. Now, don't you dare. I mean it. When I drink like this, I don't hold much back, I'm

I'm bound to tell you what I really THINK!

skookum: Yes, keep up your inane one-liners, perhaps they'll make fabulous Fark cliches, otherwise, as I've said, I don't have to educate you on this, if you haven't caught on by now and gotten on board, you are an ignornant liberal that will be dealt with once the cleanup happens in this country. Your smug, singleminded bullying deserves nothing less.

Again, for the third time, being able to access information from telecoms for purposes of national security effectively trumps the Constitution. Now, don't you dare. I mean it. When I drink like this, I don't hold much back, I'm

YOU SEE what happens people?! You start talking about the evil government and they come and snatch you up right in the middle of a Fark pos

skookum: Yes, keep up your inane one-liners, perhaps they'll make fabulous Fark cliches, otherwise, as I've said, I don't have to educate you on this, if you haven't caught on by now and gotten on board, you are an ignornant liberal that will be dealt with once the cleanup happens in this country. Your smug, singleminded bullying deserves nothing less.

Again, for the third time, being able to access information from telecoms for purposes of national security effectively trumps the Constitution. Now, don't you dare. I mean it. When I drink like this, I don't hold much back, I'm

Oh hell, looks like the NSA cut him off mid-sentance!

sentance=sentence...it's 4AM in Mojo land folks.

skookum: there should be a random tap in every American city

Why do you think the constitution should be thrown out the window? It is more than clear that you want USA to become a soviet republic.

You are a traitor.

ActualFarkal: skookum: Yes, keep up your inane one-liners, perhaps they'll make fabulous Fark cliches, otherwise, as I've said, I don't have to educate you on this, if you haven't caught on by now and gotten on board, you are an ignornant liberal that will be dealt with once the cleanup happens in this country. Your smug, singleminded bullying deserves nothing less.

Again, for the third time, being able to access information from telecoms for purposes of national security effectively trumps the Constitution. Now, don't you dare. I mean it. When I drink like this, I don't hold much back, I'm

YOU SEE what happens people?! You start talking about the evil government and they come and snatch you up right in the middle of a Fark pos



Approves

skookum: I'm bound to tell you what I really THINK!

I feel bad because I think I just realized that skookum has a disorder. Seriously, like in a trisomy kind of way.