Damn, I hate a headline that ends with peace. I wanted the mayhem!

Well it's about damned time. Good for them, too. Let's just hope this kind of reasonable discourse, democratic election, and peaceful conversation is contagious to their neighbors.

Except for the fact that the 2 opposition parties that now have a majority in the parliament are planning on impeaching Musharraf; I guess it's all temporary, though I hope they can make it through this without too much violence.

All the violence happened before the election. Also the result was pretty overwhelming, a landslide against Musharraf AND religious intolerance.

Shaggy_C: Except for the fact that the 2 opposition parties that now have a majority in the parliament are planning on impeaching Musharraf; I guess it's all temporary, though I hope they can make it through this without too much violence.

The only base of support Musharraf has is in the Pakistani military, and since he retired as a general they don't have any reason to back him in a crisis. In fact, the only people who I've heard are disappointed in the results are some of the diehastability-philes in the State Department.

This is probably the best outcome for both Pakistan and the U.S. No, the parliament doesn't have a majority to impeach Musharraf, but I'm guessing the guy can read the tea leaves and figure out his time is almost up. Thanks for the help after 9/11, dude, but now you're just getting in the way.

er, that should be "die-hard stability-philes."

/coffee time

MasterThief: This is probably the best outcome for both Pakistan and the U.S.

Probably in the long run, except that Bush's long-term pro-Musharraf stance has made us look pretty crappy in the eyes of the parties who are now running the show. Fortunately he's got one foot out the door.

MasterThief: No, the parliament doesn't have a majority to impeach Musharraf,

Au contraire; the two opposition parties do have a majority (they have created a coalition government). One of them is angrily demanding an impeachment, and the other is a little more moderate. Sharif is the hardliner who has called for Musharraf to step down immdediately. Zardari would let him stay in power. There's a lot of questions up in the air at this point. Link (new window)

Shaggy_C: Sharif is the hardliner who has called for Musharraf to step down immdediately.


Hey, Musharraf overthrew his government and had him thrown in jail. Can you blame the guy?

Edsel: Hey, Musharraf overthrew his government and had him thrown in jail. Can you blame the guy?

You know who else was thrown in jail by Musharraf?

Yeah, Benezir Bhutto. And see how that turned out?

Shaggy_C: Sharif is the hardliner who has called for Musharraf to step down immdediately.

So what you're saying is, Sharif don't like it?

/ok, a stretch there

Shaggy_C: Edsel: Hey, Musharraf overthrew his government and had him thrown in jail. Can you blame the guy?

You know who else was thrown in jail by Musharraf?

Yeah, Benezir Bhutto. And see how that turned out?

She cracked her skull on the sunroof while being stupid. He didn't kill her. ;)

pakistan is a government divided and often the ISI works against the interests of those in political power.

Shaggy_C: You know who else was thrown in jail by Musharraf?

Yeah, Benezir Bhutto. And see how that turned out?

Uh, no. Bhutto robbed the country blind and exiled HERSELF rather than face corruption charges, long before Musharraf overthrew Sharif. And in any case, I'm not sure I see the relevance of your statement. Even if Musharraf did have Benazir killed (unlikely) he's certainly in no position to have Sharif bumped off now.

Edsel: Even if Musharraf did have Benazir killed (unlikely) he's certainly in no position to have Sharif bumped off now.

No, no...the 'terrorists' will do it.

Just goes to show they don't know how to act in a democracy.

Shaggy_C: Au contraire; the two opposition parties do have a majority (they have created a coalition government). One of them is angrily demanding an impeachment, and the other is a little more moderate.

Mmmmm... yeah... I'm gonna have to disagree on that one...

Impeachment of the president would require a two-thirds vote of parliament; the two main opposition parties together will control just under 60% of the seats. But they could forge partnerships with smaller parties and independents that would give them sufficient numbers to move against Musharraf.

Chickens, hatch, no counting, etc.

MasterThief: Chickens, hatch, no counting, etc.

Just under 60% is still a majority...What are you disagreeing with me about?

Well if they have some sense of stability that gives Obama all the more reason to attack them!

The PPP and PML-N also got elected partly on a platform of pledging to end military operations in the tribal regions. There's peace for now, but I suspect we're still in for some interesting turns.

Shaggy_C: Just under 60% is still a majority...What are you disagreeing with me about?

I should have said the "super-majority" to impeach (two thirds = 66.6%). Apologies for not being clearer.

Wow, kill of some of the candidates and voila! Peacefull election results!

Peace through violence, if only there were a super-power who used such strategem...oh wait.

To be fair, Sharif basically tried to kill Musharraf when he refused to let his plane land and it was dangerously running out of fuel. Musharraf really had no choice but to get the army to take over the airport - it was a commercial flight from Sri Lanka, so it wasn't just his life on the line.

Edsel on benefits of election to US:

Probably in the long run, except that Bush's long-term pro-Musharraf stance has made us look pretty crappy in the eyes of the parties who are now running the show. Fortunately he's got one foot out the door.

THIS. Besides the fact that Bush is out the door in a year, allowing for his replacement to strike up friendly ties with the current leaders, this is how a democracy works. Foreign governments deal with the people in power.

The Bush administration and Musharraf took gambles when they trusted in each other. Musharraf provided stability long enough for some real democracy to take hold, and the US is further rewarded by him keeping his word to release control of the military and honor the election results. He is likely to be out of power in the near future, but history will look on him kindly as the man who restored the democratic process in Pakistan.

On many levels Pakistan should be a model for the democratic process in the middle east.