bin Laden's in Iraq?! Someone tell the gov't.!

Perhaps. Not by the incompetent leadership of the Bush Administration, mind you, but through the blood, sweat, and tears of our military brethren.

Yeah, try telling that to those libtard LIEbrals.

So let me get this straight. We took a country that was ruled by a dictator with an iron fist, tore down the government, allowed to place to fill with terrorists, and now that they're finally leaving, we call that a "victory"?

Oh, so, mission accomplished!

On the other hand, Iraq could be the defeat of the American Neocons who believe God has sanctioned violence against Muslims. We won't know either way for a long long time, because the media ain't too good at figuring this stuff out.

Maybe this guy was right after all.

AirForceVet: Perhaps. Not by the incompetent leadership of the Bush Administration, mind you, but through the blood, sweat, and tears of our military brethren.

Are they going to use those blood sweat and tears to go back in time and install Bin Laden as the leader of Iraq first and then take him down?

hankhorsey: Oh, so, mission accomplished!

On the other hand, Iraq could be the defeat of the American Neocons who believe God has sanctioned violence against Muslims. We won't know either way for a long long time, because the media ain't too good at figuring this stuff out.

They figure it out when they get the memo from corporate.

Or,not.

Good! We still shouldn't have went there though.

I'm glad to see Muslims are starting to reject the extremists. Ultimately, the battle against radical Islam isn't going to be won by us, it needs to be won by moderate Muslims themselves.

hankhorsey: Oh, so, mission accomplished!

On the other hand, Iraq could be the defeat of the American Neocons who believe God has sanctioned violence against Muslims. We won't know either way for a long long time, because the media ain't too good at figuring this stuff out.

Seriously. Just because the Iraqis (perhaps, if you agree with TFA) have rejected the Sunni extremists who try to convince them to martyr themselves for religion, that doesn't necessarily mean that they are accepting of the US design.

If they become an example of a non-radical MUSLIM country full of more or less secular nationalists, it also serves to take some of the wind out of the US sails too, because it shows that the "all Muslims are trying to take over the world and we need a new crusade to save Christendom" is similarly a bunch of hooey.

Where's the moderate extremist Muslim outrage?

Darius Harris

Darius Harris [TotalFark]
Fark account number: 382567
Account created: 2008-01-21 21:17:36

Really? Again? ANOTHER one? Can't you just give it up? Hell, keep on posting those stupid cartoons and get laughed at and ignored, but why do you keep making a new name again and again and again? Yeah, yeah, no hate like liberal hate et cetera et cetera. I mean, repeating yourself over and over again makes you look like an idiot, but doing it with a new name every month or two makes you look like an idiot AND a pussy.

So is this reason number 126783 why we had to go into Iraq?

Unlikely

-10 for incorrect use of the tag.

That article is so rank full of obfuscation, incorrect assumptions and misleading statements.

>> "Iraq could well become ..."

And if your grandmother only had balls she could become your grandfather

Original article without intervening blog pimping (new window)

twilson2: >> "Iraq could well become ..."

And if your grandmother only had balls she could become your grandfather

I'm starting to use "And if my Aunt had wheels, she'd be my Uncle." Because it makes very little sense, but people still completely ignore it because they file it under "folksy sayings" and don't even think about it.

>> That article is so rank full of obfuscation, incorrect assumptions and misleading statements.

Those are the same qualifications for reality in con bubble land.

Monkeys could well fly out of my butt.

>> I'm starting to use ...

That sounds serious

Absolutely right! The Surge^TM is working silver-bullet miracles-- the average open-air market in Baghdad is really no different than a farmers' market in rural Indiana! And the parliamentarianization of the Iraqi government is a model for the entire Middle East!



Don't let those nattering naysayers bring you down, war-fans and Bush-lovers!

Keep reaching for the rainbow!

FTA: Among Democrats and even many Republicans, it is by now accepted wisdom that the war in Iraq brought huge numbers of holy warriors to the anti-American cause. But is it true? I don't think so.

Haven't Dems been pointing out FOREVER that we're mostly fighting domestic insurgents rather than Al Qaeda and foreign fighters in Iraq?

This is an analysis so bungled that it can only have been intentional. Perhaps there's a good reason why this guy is a former employee of the CIA?

At this point, intelligent people should just ignore the pro-war people. Consider them criminals that, for the time being, get to walk the streets because they infiltrated the police department. You wouldn't try to reason with a murderer as to whether or not they should be killing people. Why reason with these farkers who are killing Iraqis for profit?

FTFA -"A second striking fact about Islamism and the Iraq war is that the arrival of foreign holy warriors is deradicalizing the local population -- the exact opposite of what happened in Afghanistan."

The author fails completely to understand the underlying social structures in the two countries. Iraq was a mostly secular, fairly cosmopolitan country with small numbers of radical islamists before the invasion. Afghanistan was the exact opposite. So of course Al Qaeda would find a friendlier atmosphere in Afghanistan than Iraq.

Louder And More Dissonant: Original article without intervening blog pimping (new window)

Thank you.

so he's saying that a corner has been turned? that the insurgents are in their last throes? that it's probably not going to be more than another six days, six weeks, certainly not six months? that the mission is accomplished?

anyone who listens to this happy treacle and believes it has some serious problems with remembering what happened last year, the year before that, the year before that etc.

"And as far as history goes and all of these quotes about people trying to guess what the history of the Bush administration is going to be, you know, I take great comfort in knowing that they don't know what they are talking about, because history takes a long time for us to reach.

And there is no such thing as short-term history. There just isn't - objective history. I don't know how many books that have written about my administration, probably more than any other president, which actually says I'm doing something.

But you know, they - to assume that historians can figure out the effect of the Bush administration before the Bush administration has ended is just - in my mind, it is not an accurate reflection upon how history works."


"history takes us a long time to reach"....deep, man....

>> At this point, intelligent people should just ignore the pro-war people.

Intelligent people should have started to ignore these fools long ago

That previous quote was from President Bush, of course. 2/11/08 on Fox News.

itazurakko:
If they become an example of a non-radical MUSLIM country full of more or less secular nationalists, it also serves to take some of the wind out of the US sails too, because it shows that the "all Muslims are trying to take over the world and we need a new crusade to save Christendom" is similarly a bunch of hooey. Iraq will be more or less where it was before we invaded.
FTFY
/Minus Saddam, which is a good thing.
//Plus a bunch of dead citizens which isn't

>> the insurgents are in their last throes

Prosperity is just around the corner.

Bill_Wick's_Friend: so he's saying that a corner has been turned? that the insurgents are in their last throes? that it's probably not going to be more than another six days, six weeks, certainly not six months? that the mission is accomplished?

anyone who listens to this happy treacle and believes it has some serious problems with remembering what happened last year, the year before that, the year before that etc.

Things have been improving since Rumsfeld got tossed. Worst Secretary of Defense ever.

Yeah, leveling Iraq will change what those super-zealous religious freaks think about God. Give me a farking break, please.

FTFA:"First, if we make a comparison with the Soviet-Afghan war of 1979-89, which was the baptismal font for al-Qaeda, what's most striking is how few foreign holy warriors have gone to Mesopotamia since the U.S. invasion in 2003."

Does Mr. Former CIA agent know why this is?
Maybe because the CIA isn't helping them get there?

>> things have been improving since Rumsfeld got tossed. Worst Secretary of Defense ever.

If one million and one people die in a given year and the next year "only" one million people die thats an improvement.

twilson2: >> things have been improving since Rumsfeld got tossed. Worst Secretary of Defense ever.

If one million and one people die in a given year and the next year "only" one million people die thats an improvement.

I know you probably believe millions are dying in Iraq every year, but that isn't true.

/You must be a real hoot at parties.

I've been hearing this since the 90s. They didn't get any closer to us during Clinton's reign either.

He fought a war against a vastly superior superpower without actually being there or doing anything. We will have spent well over a trillion dollars for no appreciable gain. He has a new generation of radical Muslim cannon fodder. His biggest lost was a Sunni state but we've given Iran a new ally.

We've been lead into a pyhrric victory by a drunken, draft dodging frat boy.

Darius Harris

Insert picture here

Oh wow! A_D is back!

The Iraqis aren't stupid. They realize there's a much bigger prize to won than bin Laden's dystopian Caiphate. Americans bring stability, stability brings exploration, exploration will bring the biggest bonanza in decades. Iraq is going to be fantastically wealthy. Why rock the boat?

Iraq's proven reserves of oil are only smaller than those of Saudi Arabia and Iran - and Iraq is only about 30% explored. Experts are generally of the view that Iraq's actual oil reserves could well turn out to be at least double the 115 billion barrels of proven reserves. Beyond that, it is anybody's guess as to the scale of Iraq's as-yet-untapped gas reserves.

And Shahristani is visibly getting ready to negotiate the contracts for Iraq's "super giants". In the idiom of Big Oil, "super giants" are fields with at least five billion barrels of oil in reserve. Iraq's super giants are Kirkuk (in Kurdistan), Majnoon (bordering Iran), Rumaila North and South (in the south), West Qurna (west of Basra) and Zubair (in the southeast) fields, and, possibly, the Nahr Umr and East Baghdad fields. In addition, Iraq is estimated to have 22 "giant" fields, each having more than 1 billion barrels of oil.

In fact, Iraq may host the largest untapped reserves in the world. There is a strong likelihood that Iraq's reserves may turn out to be exponentially higher than the current estimations, which are based on old-style seismic surveys. (new window)

Alucard1191: Darius Harris

Insert picture here

Oh wow! A_D is back!

It's like he's Boris Badenov, throwing on a new hat and fake mustache every week, continuing in his efforts to kill moose and squirrel.

Yeah, that would certainly be neat and all, but it still sounds like more of the same rose-colored bullshiat we've been hearing since this mess began.

The comparisons to the Soviet-Afghan war are interesting, but the Soviets of the 70s/80s took a vastly different approach than the Americans are taking in Iraq currently. Iraq is a far more nuanced (for lack of a better term) war then the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was.

And I could win the lottery, retire to Monaco, and then make a living playing baccarat.

Dinki: Iraq was a mostly secular, fairly cosmopolitan country

Yes, when I think cosmopolitan I think Halabja, too.

When monkeys fly out of my butt.

"Iraq could well become America's decisive victory over Osama bin Laden, al-Qaeda and all those Muslims who believe that God has sanctified violence against the United States.

Great, another idiot who thinks that had anything to do with Bin Laden and 9/11.

"It's important to note that, whatever the raw numbers of jihadis in Iraq, they have been by far the most lethal aspect of the so-called "insurgency""

Um, wrong again A$$hat. According to our own Generals in Iraq, al-Qaeda in Iraq, an indigenous Iraqi group, was responsible for 10-15% of the violence.