Asinine indeed. Without oral exams, it would be difficult to determine whether the student actually can speak in the foreign language they are studying. It's one thing to test their knowledge in a written exam, but an oral exam can test their ability to not only pronounce words correctly, but to insure they are using the proper tenses, etc.

Kids don't speak proper these days anyway. Unless it was an oral exam in French street slang.

For their exams students should be dropped into a foreign land at a random, unknown point, and told if they can make their way back then they pass. That's what my school did, although they claim it was an error, likely story!

I smiled to overhear our Spanish language assistant [native speaker] chatting to a couple of A-level pupils in the library recently.

One of the girls came out with a long, if slightly hesitant, answer to a question and the teacher said encouragingly

"That was very good, excellent grammar, well done. But the vocabulary was mostly French"

As someone who strongly believes young people these days should just keep their damn mouths shut, I support this initiative.

/and get off my lawn

Good. Let the UK get dumber and then, maybe, Oxford will drop to #2 behind Harvard.

/A Yankee can dream. . .

Hahaha! Nanny State AND 'precious snowflakes'! +10!!!

Wow, having to grow up and get a job is pretty stressful too. Maybe the Brits should ban that asa well. I mean, we wouldn't want anyone to get upset now would we?

Snickers: Get some nuts!

Oh those cunning linguists!

The majority of my French GCSE oral test was a conversation about different types of cheese. This was OK (I passed), but whenever I traverse la Manche, I find it hard to get du pain et du vin to go with my Boursin. C'est très...annoying.

Heh if only more kids taking their language oral exams were like Corey Feldman's character in Goonies. This would be a case of parents protecting the image that their child is a precious little snowflake instead of their child actually being one.

During my Spanish 2 exam back in high school I came up with some rather rancid answers during the oral exam. I passed, despite the vulgarity, because it showed I had mastered the concepts behind the subject matter.

Taking it a different angle as far as in class speeches and presentations go... I feel those are integral portions of the learning experience. Even if a person ends up getting stuck behind a desk for the rest of their life, the communication skills learned during oral exams/presentations can be more useful than the rote and rhyme equations covered in other subjects.

Perfect...in the US we've been dumbing down the quality of education for years. It's about time other countries did the same.

Regas: I find it hard to get du pain et du vin to go with my Boursin. C'est très...annoying.

Ou est Marie France?
Marie France est dans le jardin.

Well that would make things easier.
/Oral exam in March.
//J'ai peur parce que quelquefois je begaie

Archie Goodwin: Oh those cunning linguists!

+1

well, americans have always been too scared to have orals ...in Russia to pass the exam you walk into a room and there were a bunch of index cards, and you turned one over that said "Why X?" and you had to explain it while people in white coats interrogated you.

richw: Perfect...in the US we've been dumbing down the quality of education for years. It's about time other countries did the same.

Been happening for years.

/Exam results get better every year
//But how can you compare when the benchmark moves?

fark's sake, language teaching in this country is already bad enough...I hardly did any German speaking at school, and even at uni. Which meant that when the time came for me to do my year abroad, I could read and write fine, but barely hold a conversation. Meanwhile, students from more enlightened countries (including the US, actually) blabbed away freely.

...because public speaking and verbally answering tough questions are skills that industry doesn't care about in the workplace.

/not.

Betenoreus: well, americans have always been too scared to have orals ...in Russia to pass the exam you walk into a room and there were a bunch of index cards, and you turned one over that said "Why X?" and you had to explain it while people in white coats interrogated you.

I'm not sure that's Russia, and not some fetish roleplaying scene..

Betenoreus: well, Americans have always been too scared to have orals ...

1. Orals are not uncommon in the US
2. Generalizing that all -insert nationality- do this or that is ignorant
3. I was a Russian major in the early 1980s and completed a summer semester in what was then Leningrad State University. The professors could care less if we attended class or took the tests. We all got A's and like the rest of the USSR we found its university system corrupt and bankrupt. Maybe its improved now.

As for Great Britain; it seems to be a doomed society. Too bad.

+1 for precious little snowflakes
-1 for Nanny State

Siamese Bream: students from more enlightened countries (including the US)

Shenanigans

betona: ...because public speaking and verbally answering tough questions are skills that industry doesn't care about in the workplace.

/not.

Agreed - I was in sales/account management for years and much of what you do is, in essense, an oral test. Now that I'm in a much more management-focused role, it's actually a bit more difficult. Not only are there plenty of times where a skill like this comes in handy, not having the skills probably limits one to lower-paying roles and gives a definite ceiling.

Obviously, not everyone has this skill, but developing/improving it is something that'll only benefit the chittlins down the road.

That and a frickin' logic class. Teach the little bastards how to think, dammit.

We don't need any of their Deutschy Markys anyway...

/Oh, we do?

Nanny State +1
Oral +2
Precious Little Snowflakes +3

I believe we have ourselves a thread.

Oral? Maybe all those pedo teachers in the US should move to Britian...

Bathia_Mapes: It's one thing to test their knowledge in a written exam, but an oral exam can test their ability to not only pronounce words correctly, but to insure they are using the proper tenses, etc.

PHAIL!

/you Ensure something good happens
//and you Insure your car
///while you're at it, insure your home
\\\\grammar nazi
||I know who else....

Classes are mostly useless when it comes to learning languages. You need to do a lot of self-study to make up for all the suck you absorb with your fellow classmates.

meh, the whole concept of learning a modern language is pretty useless outside the few that want to learn it - we had to learn french at my school, i did it, got a B - barely knew any of it, learnt basic phrases and passed basically

the whole way we teach languages needs to be rethought, the rigidly assessed system doesn't 'teach' language - start them younger, get a more natural system going and there's no point forcing those who won't try, like me!

devildog123: Wow, having to grow up and get a job is pretty stressful too. Maybe the Brits should ban that asa well. I mean, we wouldn't want anyone to get upset now would we?

this x 10

Well maybe everyone in the world should just be taught one language then. It would be the ultimate stress reliever, oh and it should be english of course.

OxfordDon: /Exam results get better every year

Except for one year not long ago when they didn't, which led to the tabloids having a field day about how kids are more stupid. Bit of a lose-lose really.

tarquinrainbowtrout: the whole way we teach languages needs to be rethought, the rigidly assessed system doesn't 'teach' language - start them younger, get a more natural system going and there's no point forcing those who won't try

This x 10, more like. Introducing language learning right at the point where your language learning skills take a big drop is pretty moronic.

The French language has an incredibly complex system on conjugating verbs and tenses. (to English-speakers, anyway).

When I took French up here in Canada, the emphasis was on getting those damn verb agreements straight. If you for got one little silent "e", "s" or an accent you FAILED the question.

There was little if any work done to actually COMMUNICATE in this apparently horrendously complex language with it's pointless rules.

Yeah, I know, English has it's own silly rules but we are used to them, and often don't follw them and are STILL able to communicate effectively. I'm sure that's fairly universal between most languages.

Now, to those who do actually communicate in French, I ask a question. Do you REALLY observe all those complex conjugation rules when you speak "everyday" French, or does the average "Jean" on the street have a limited set he uses for day-to-day speaking, and only use all the rules when dealing with legal issues, or writing an exam!

And do you really berate and penalize those who miss that "silent e" like our French teachers do?

You know, come to think of it, the myriad rules in French just seem to provide a built-in system for teachers of the French language to apply a grade to their students. Laziness for the teachers bacuse it is easier to mark a piece of paper than to test communication skills. The result is that most students wind up HATING the language. Now, for Canada that seems so counter-productive, since we are supposed to EMBRACE the French-Canadian culture and give them breaks whenever possible.

Why is Fark turning into the Bill O' Reilly show?

RabidDog: Ou est Marie France?
Marie France est dans le jardin.

Avec Jean-Paul, et Bruno, le chien de familie Marsaud!

I had an oral Physics exam in college. One on one with the prof, you had 30 minutes, a blackboard, some chalk, and 7 questions to answer. THATS an exam.

Why doesn't the Nanny State go ahead and eliminate growing up and becoming an adult? With all the stress eliminated from childhood, the children will be unable to cope as adults.

Siamese Bream: I jest ye not. Possibly because as far as I know, years abroad aren't compulsory at American universities, so probably the only students to bother are the ones who really care about learning the language.

You're very right - the Americans you meet in Europe are an atypical sample.

alfredromeo Quote 2008-02-17 10:00:45 AM
Why is Fark turning into the Bill O' Reilly show?

All the frustrated pent up little Republitots seem to have gotten lost on their way to church this morning.

Watch half these people commenting here will be the 'Wide Stancers' we hear about some day.

Case in point.

From this side of the pond it looks like the UK is becoming the trailer park joke for the rest of the EU.

Nanny state *does shot*
snowflake *does shot*

If only submitter had worked "crotchfruit" into the headline, I could catch a buzz.

The proposal to eliminate oral exams is stupid. Very stupid.

Speaking of stupid... it looks like England is trying to follow the lead of the United States in eliminating any actual *education* from their education curriculum... which will leave them with an under-educated and uneducated mass of easily-guided proles.

However... the English appear to be falling slightly behind in their quest to eliminate all actual education from the schools. Once they gut the science curricilum and replace it with courses in Creationism, and then replace math courses with a few hours a day of school prayer, then will be right on track.

Betenoreus: well, americans have always been too scared to have orals ...in Russia to pass the exam you walk into a room and there were a bunch of index cards, and you turned one over that said "Why X?" and you had to explain it while people in white coats interrogated you.

Yup, how it worked back in Denmark, too. (Except for the white coats. Nice touch, though.)

Well, OK, sometimes, you were given 20 minutes with your course notes and the question. Oh, and we weren't allowed to touch the index cards - apparently there was a fear of cheating. We'd be asked to say a number between X & Y, the teacher would smile and say "Ooooh, number 8, that's a good one" read the question to you and off you went.

You people are looking at this all wrong. Schools are pumping out thousands of uneducated, disadvantaged morons. A new lower class is being created, and if you get your claws in at the right time, you'll be rich and powerful! Rich and powerful says I! HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!

Once in a while it's nice to see someone besides the US is leading in the race to pussification.

Watering down education in the UK will be essential in keeping the chav population healthy and strong.

RabidDog: Ou est Marie France?

I had the biggest crush on Marie-France.