Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

Post offices sure change their names a lot.

Something keeps sticking in my head. JFK said "Ask NOT what your Country can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your Country". That nugget was a pretty profound and famous one. In todays world, the Dems wraps themselves in JFK and FDR and it sounds like what the "ask what YOU can do for your Country" part means pay more taxes so we get free stuff.

Sorry, it looks that way to me.

Javacrucian: Post offices sure change their names a lot.

My thoughts exactly. What's the point? More money spent on new signs? What a waste.

Javacrucian: Post offices sure change their names a lot.

I remember I used to watch C-Span hardcore when I first got it and it seemed like that is all Congress did, all day.

Javacrucian: Post offices sure change their names a lot.

I s'pose it's a feelgood thing. 90% of the job must be pushing crap uphill

Since Congress is the legislative branch of the United States government and makes all the laws, wouldn't Hillary Clinton and Obama be better suited to positively change the country by introducing and getting support for new bills rather than spending all their time campaigning for the Presidency which has neither the ability to make laws, nor to allocate the budget for the kinds of initiatives they seek? Spend another 20 or 30 years in office like Ted Kennedy and you'll have enough clout to get whatever you want pushed through, including universal health care.

This really begs the point. Legislation is a process. What matters is how they behaved, what kind of situation they cultivated, and all that. What makes Obama so good is his ability to work with a broad range of people to get things done that others agree on. Picking over the results of all that work at this level is like looking for kernels of corn in poo.

R.A.Danny: Javacrucian: Post offices sure change their names a lot.

I s'pose it's a feelgood thing. 90% of the job must be pushing crap uphill

Gotta keep all those government employees busy or they shoot up the place. Ever heard of "going postal"?

My how things have changed.

Old and Busted: Going Postal
New Hotness: Going Academic

/one ticket please
//carry on

m0llusk: This really begs the point. Legislation is a process. What matters is how they behaved, what kind of situation they cultivated, and all that. What makes Obama so good is his ability to work with a broad range of people to get things done that others agree on. Picking over the results of all that work at this level is like looking for kernels of corn in poo.

You're a Marketing Major aren't you?

/grin

Please be explaining why you need Congress to change the name of a frigging post office ?

Don't you have Mayors and Town Halls and shiat like that for that ? Or is there some farked up going years back reason for it ?

K, thx

malcy: Please be explaining why you need Congress to change the name of a frigging post office ?

Don't you have Mayors and Town Halls and shiat like that for that ? Or is there some farked up going years back reason for it ?

K, thx

It's a Federal Agency. Congress manages them all, the ones we know about anyway.

I was reading through the ammendments sponsored by Obama and it became apparent:

That man Hates Avian Flu.

\Pretty sure Avian Flu killed his Ninja Master and stole the Golden Dragon Dagger

GaryPDX: It's a Quasi-Federal Agency. Congress manages them all, the ones we know about anyway.

Technically, it's not even the government, is it?

nukeim: GaryPDX: It's a Quasi-Federal Agency. Congress manages them all, the ones we know about anyway.

Technically, it's not even the government, is it?

Yes, it is. It was established by the Fed and it's management is assigned by the Fed (Postmaster General). It falls in the category similar to the FCC, FDA, Surgeon General..etc administratively. The only thing that makes it a little different is it's taxation funding mostly comes from purchasing stamps. It's still a tax collection process.

I would like to see a list of how much pork Clinton, Obama, and McCain have brought back to their respective districts.

nukeim: GaryPDX: It's a Quasi-Federal Agency. Congress manages them all, the ones we know about anyway.

Technically, it's not even the government, is it?

Oh and if you blow one up, guess who knocks on your door? The FBI, ATF, BATC, DHS and probably the CIA these days. Yes..it's a Fed Agency.

friendinpa: I would like to see a list of how much pork Clinton, Obama, and McCain have brought back to their respective districts.

That jerk wad Stevens (Alaska) is the King of Bringing home the Bacon. Yes yes yes..he's a Republican. Alaska gets more back in Federal $$ that they pay in, the only state that does that.

But then again, that's the job of these critters we elect at State level. The juicy bacon flows up and down the system. Every level needs to take out the trimming shears.

I want a post office :(

GaryPDX: Oh and if you blow one up, guess who knocks on your door? The FBI, ATF, BATC, DHS and probably the CIA these days. Yes..it's a Fed Agency.

That happens if I blow anything up.

m0llusk: This really begs the point. Legislation is a process.

Actually, this is an old grudge. During 2004 Cheney dismissed Kerry and Edwards as having done little in the Senate. In a case of a pot calling a mirror black, it turns out they did quite a lot, whereas Cheney passed only two bills in his entire tenure within Congress. That should've been that, but I think they brought it up again to nip the asinine accusation in the bud.

I say let's just quibble and move on. What bills they've gotten passed isn't entirely irrelevant, and I'd rather discuss that than some media obsession on what brand of coffee they like.

What a couple of blue chip legislators. Man they are awesome.

dragonchild

Actually, this is an old grudge. During 2004 Cheney dismissed Kerry and Edwards as having done little in the Senate. In a case of a pot calling a mirror black, it turns out they did quite a lot, whereas Cheney passed only two bills in his entire tenure within Congress. That should've been that, but I think they brought it up again to nip the asinine accusation in the bud.

You talking about that debate where Cheney took Edwards out to the wood shed? That was funny as hell.

I still think the losing side on legislation should be given the right to name the bill. Not only would the names be more accurate, they'd be more amusing.

friendinpa: I would like to see a list of how much pork Clinton, Obama, and McCain have brought back to their respective districts.

Ask and ye shall receive.

In a nutshell, candidates' earmarks:
Clinton - Top 10
Obama - Bottom 25
McCain - Zero (1 of 5)

/assuming earmarks = pork
//don't blame me, I'm an engineer

Snarfangel: I still think the losing side on legislation should be given the right to name the bill. Not only would the names be more accurate, they'd be more amusing.

Side?

It's just as I suspected!
Almost every bill that goes through Congress is super-lame!

MFL: You talking about that debate where Cheney took Edwards out to the wood shed? That was funny as hell.

It was more a central component of their campaign theme: Edwards = inexperienced. Reality was different but reality tends to go places during campaign season.

I dunno about "wood shed" because I just don't think of elections (you know, where we choose our leaders) as a spectator sport.

Nestea Plunge: GaryPDX: Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

Lord knows we haven't had any unnecessary bureaucracy since 2001. Personal responsibility? Funny you should mention that, seeing how the GOP does not practice it. You been high the last 7 years or something?

Did you read my post attacking Stevens? Dude, I am so tired of the "We, The Party" crap. Yes, personal responsibility applies to both. It should be taught when your 5 years old by your parents, but that doesn't happen much anymore. Cable Babysitting is all the rage.

GaryPDX: Something keeps sticking in my head. JFK said "Ask NOT what your Country can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your Country". That nugget was a pretty profound and famous one. In todays world, the Dems wraps themselves in JFK and FDR and it sounds like what the "ask what YOU can do for your Country" part means pay more taxes so we get free stuff.

Since neither of those guys rallied around eliminating social programs (quite the opposite), maybe you misunderstood its intended meaning.

It's not always about money, man.

capecodcarl: Since Congress is the legislative branch of the United States government and makes all the laws, wouldn't Hillary Clinton and Obama be better suited to positively change the country by introducing and getting support for new bills rather than spending all their time campaigning for the Presidency which has neither the ability to make laws, nor to allocate the budget for the kinds of initiatives they seek?

Awww... how cute. Someone who still thinks that the Constitution is in effect and the presidency hasn't increased in power bit by bit ever since George Washington. Sorry, but the fact is you're electing something in the continuum between a president and an emperor. They certainly aren't dictators yet but, especially after Bush, they're heading in that general direction.

GaryPDX: Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

Yes, Personal Responsibility (love the capitalization, btw) would be all it really takes to rename some post offices, put a statue of Sojouner Truth in the Capitol Building, and promote a stable democracy in the Congo.

mediaho: GaryPDX: Something keeps sticking in my head. JFK said "Ask NOT what your Country can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your Country". That nugget was a pretty profound and famous one. In todays world, the Dems wraps themselves in JFK and FDR and it sounds like what the "ask what YOU can do for your Country" part means pay more taxes so we get free stuff.

Since neither of those guys rallied around eliminating social programs (quite the opposite), maybe you misunderstood its intended meaning.

It's not always about money, man.

Yup. Power and Control. I didn't want to say it outright but what the hell.

GaryPDX: Alaska gets more back in Federal $$ that they pay in, the only state that does that.

You sure about that?

S.AMDT.2917 to H.R.1585 To extend and enhance the authority for temporary lodging expenses for members of the Armed Forces in areas subject to a major disaster declaration or for installations experiencing a sudden increase in personnel levels.

The Third Amendment blearily blinks from his lazy-boy recliner, snarfs a mittful of Cheetos and asks "This doesn't have anything to do with me does it? *sigh* All the others get hotly debated but not me. Never me."

Stopheles: GaryPDX: Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

Yes, Personal Responsibility (love the capitalization, btw) would be all it really takes to rename some post offices, put a statue of Sojouner Truth in the Capitol Building, and promote a stable democracy in the Congo.

And what does the Congo have to do with America running like a well oiled machine? America has cottage cheese thighs, a big fat ass and massive cankles! Trust me, we're not going to be able to transform the Congo. Congo needs some Personal Responsibility of their own. OR a machete, let them sort it out for themselves.

Isn't that what the Dem's want the Iraqi's to do?

C'mon guys..consistent message please.

mediaho: GaryPDX: Alaska gets more back in Federal $$ that they pay in, the only state that does that.

You sure about that?

I'm certain it's the most..not 100% sure it's the only. If there is another, it's one or two at best. It's been a while since I've seen that data.

DarnoKonrad: Snarfangel: I still think the losing side on legislation should be given the right to name the bill. Not only would the names be more accurate, they'd be more amusing.

Side?

Yep. If the Yeas win, the Nays name.

/and vice versa.

GaryPDX: And what does the Congo have to do with America running like a well oiled machine?

I've always thought that the government running nice and slow was a good thing. When they get really good at implementing their goofy ideas is when you need to worry.

GaryPDX: Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

This personal responsibility thing sounds almost as magical as the free market.

GaryPDX: Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

That's the problem: some people don't care to exercise such things. And more often, the problem is much more complex, but it's easy to call them irresponsible. It makes it easier to suggest simply letting them die.

We can either use an inefficient government to do something, or we can just let things turn to sh*t. Frankly, I'm a lot less concerned with whining about how tax is theft, and more concerned with people dying on the street, whether their own 'fault' or not (and it's usually not- most people in financial hardship are responsible people who don't have education, and thus opportunity). YMMV. And no, the government doing something doesn't take away the incentive to do well or work hard in life. It's plainly ridiculous.

Unless you've got some sort of personal responsibility distillation process I don't know about, this is the reality we live with, and have always lived with.

There are quite a few things missing from this list.

The official web site for this stuff ^ is a bit difficult to sift through. If you're looking for something in particular, it might be more effective to use Google with "site:thomas.loc.gov" as part of the search.

GaryPDX: I'm certain it's the most..not 100% sure it's the only. If there is another, it's one or two at best. It's been a while since I've seen that data.

Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures by State (pdf, p)

And please forgive the partisan/retardisan color scheme:



Point being, we are the United States and we understand that helping our own doesn't weaken us, but makes us stronger. This rugged individualism bullshiat would make our country look like Africa's divided nations if we actually believed in it. Personal responsibility certainly has its place but in its current form, the rallying cry is nothing more than a "superior moral justification for selfishness."

hillbillypharmacist: We can either use an inefficient government to do something, or we can just let things turn to sh*t.

Or we could accept that some parts of the government will be perpetually inefficient and scale them back.

Of course, that option is easy to forget given the current party agendas.

Truthiness: Or we could accept that some parts of the government will be perpetually inefficient and scale them back.

It's perfectly fine to be inefficient so long as the populace is willing to pay for it.

GaryPDX: Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

There are some that, I think, I pretty damn necessary and applaud their passing:

S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty. Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 7/31/2007) Cosponsors (8) Latest Major Action: 8/2/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 2588 agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.

S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged. Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 1/11/2007) Cosponsors (1) Latest Major Action: 1/18/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 41 agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.

mediaho: Point being, we are the United States and we understand that helping our own doesn't weaken us, but makes us stronger. This rugged individualism bullshiat would make our country look like Africa's divided nations if we actually believed in it. Personal responsibility certainly has its place but in its current form, the rallying cry is nothing more than a "superior moral justification for selfishness."

And I believe we are far from that (valid) line. We need some "rugged" individualism to bring up the deficiency. America needs to take care of itself for a while and every citizen needs to take care of their own personal selfs. That's where the disconnect is, right at the bottom of the food chain. People expecting the government to give them stuff as opposed to going out and being a "rugged individual" who makes his way. Prosperity is impossible without some level of personal greed. You can't escape that..ever.

We're debating a where to draw the line...lol.

I Said: GaryPDX: Some of those are kinda nice but put them all in a singular picture and get an assload of unnecessary government bureaucracy. Personal Responsibility would solve the bulk of those concerns.

There are some that, I think, I pretty damn necessary and applaud their passing:

S.AMDT.2588 to H.R.976 To provide certain employment protections for family members who are caring for members of the Armed Forces recovering from illnesses and injuries incurred on active duty. Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 7/31/2007) Cosponsors (8) Latest Major Action: 8/2/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 2588 agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.

S.AMDT.41 to S.1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged. Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 1/11/2007) Cosponsors (1) Latest Major Action: 1/18/2007 Senate amendment agreed to. Status: Amendment SA 41 agreed to in Senate by Unanimous Consent.

Those are some of the nice things I was referring to..:)

GaryPDX: Those are some of the nice things I was referring to..:)

heh heh, whoops!

my bad.