His attorney, Eric Stanley, said Drake and other pastors have a right to free speech, even in politics.

Nobody is stopping him from speaking. He just has to realize that it could land him in trouble with the IRS.

Just like what Reagan did with raising the drinking age. The States didn't have to go along, they just would have had infrastructure cash cut.

All churches should have to pay taxes.

If the word "mega" appears anywhere in their literature or description, said taxes should be doubled.

But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Pocket Ninja: All churches should have to pay taxes.

Careful what you wish for. That will give churches the same rights and access to government that corporations have. Tax-free is all that's keeping it to the level that it currently is. You want a theocracy? Tax the churches.

As a citizen, he has every right to endorse someone. Doing it on official church stationary is downright boneheaded, though.

EatHam: Careful what you wish for. That will give churches the same rights and access to government that corporations have. Tax-free is all that's keeping it to the level that it currently is. You want a theocracy? Tax the churches.

The Catholic church would be in a world of hurt if it had to start paying property taxes on the land it owns. St. Patrick's by itself would be an impressive number.

nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Says who?

EPA?

NEA?

ATF?

kronicfeld: Says who?

Says the fact that nothing ever came of it.

EvilEgg: The Catholic church would be in a world of hurt if it had to start paying property taxes on the land it owns

Nah, they'll just start selling indulgences again.

On church stationary means you are acting as part of the church. He could have done it on personal stationary and it would have been better, but not completely home-free.

nekom: kronicfeld: Says who?

Says the fact that nothing ever came of it.

He's not part of that church. The pastor is. Big difference.

cameroncrazy1984: He's not part of that church. The pastor is. Big difference.

True, but isn't hosting him to speak at your church more or less in the same boat?

nekom: True, but isn't hosting him to speak at your church more or less in the same boat?

Depends on what he talks about.

nekom: kronicfeld: Says who?

Says the fact that nothing ever came of it.

Al Gore pays taxes.

nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Why wouldn't it be?

ArcadianRefugee: nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Why wouldn't it be?

You don't think that is a tacit endorsement by the church?

EvilEgg: Depends on what he talks about.

Can't seem to find anything on youtube, but he talked about himself, Bush and McCain (this was before dubya had the primaries won), it was very much political.

Also, I might add I don't have a problem with a politician speaking at a church. I don't think that a church should turn around and endorse a speaker, but at the same time, it's hard for some not to get the idea that having a politician speak to your congregation is not a form of endorsement.

Nabb1: tacit

Here's the operative word in your post. Tacit is ok; explicit (say, on church letterhead, for example) is not.

nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.


It is. A church is also a community and anyone who they invite to speak there has the right to do so. They were interested in hearing what Gore had to say. They were also free to not show up - as they probably knew before going there that Gore would be there.

If you're sitting in a pew expecting nothing other than a normal mass and the idiot pastor starts telling you who to vote for - you should be pissed off enough to stand up and walk out.

And the idiot should expect a call from the IRS...

EatHam: Careful what you wish for. That will give churches the same rights and access to government that corporations have. Tax-free is all that's keeping it to the level that it currently is. You want a theocracy? Tax the churches.

This. This is most definitely a two way street none of us want to go down.

Drawing the ire of the IRS for a guy who's not going to win seems a little...um...stupid?

Wait... there are people who honestly can't see the difference between the preacher for a church explicitly endorsing a candidate from the pulpit and a politician giving a speech in a church?

no, seriously... you're going to vote for Bush again, aren't you?

nekom: it was very much political.

At what point are you endorsing a candidate for letting him talk in front of your congregation? Did he deny Bush the ability to talk?

-----------
Under federal tax law, church officials may legally discuss politics, but they cannot endorse candidates or parties without putting their tax-exempt status at risk. Most who do so receive only a warning.
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pwhp_67: It is. A church is also a community and anyone who they invite to speak there has the right to do so. They were interested in hearing what Gore had to say. They were also free to not show up - as they probably knew before going there that Gore would be there.

If you're sitting in a pew expecting nothing other than a normal mass and the idiot pastor starts telling you who to vote for - you should be pissed off enough to stand up and walk out.

And the idiot should expect a call from the IRS...

They knew Al Gore would be talking about politics. I don't understand how inviting a candidate to speak isn't crossing the line, but a pastor endorsing one is. Seems to me that either both are fine, or neither are.

nekom: I don't understand

we know.

timmy_the_tooth: Wait... there are people who honestly can't see the difference between the preacher for a church explicitly endorsing a candidate from the pulpit and a politician giving a speech in a church?

no, seriously... you're going to vote for Bush again, aren't you?

You gotta remember though...it was a BLACK church. So, either the outside of the church needs a new paint job or the blackies get a free pass from government persecution.

nekom: Seems to me that either both are fine, or neither are.


Historically, churches have been used as meeting places for the congregation. So they were not built just for mass. I don't know the specifics - but if Al Gore was invited and they let the people know before hand then it's fine. If, like this idiot pastor, they just sprung it on them, like they did the Homily and oh, hey, Al Gore would like to ask for your vote - totally wrong.

If the folks are there to celebrate mass then politics have no place there. Period.

Pocket Ninja - All churches should have to pay taxes.

If the word "mega" appears anywhere in their literature or description, said taxes should be doubled.

Try it & you can kiss your precious separation of church & state goodbye.

Nabb1: it's hard for some not to get the idea that having a politician speak to your congregation is not a form of endorsement.

Not all the time....

Heh...

pwhp_67: Historically, churches have been used as meeting places for the congregation. So they were not built just for mass. I don't know the specifics - but if Al Gore was invited and they let the people know before hand then it's fine. If, like this idiot pastor, they just sprung it on them, like they did the Homily and oh, hey, Al Gore would like to ask for your vote - totally wrong.

If the folks are there to celebrate mass then politics have no place there. Period.

As far as I know Gore's speech was not during a mass, but it's still associated with the church. Still seems to me to amount to an endorsement, even if it wasn't explicitly said.

nekom: They knew Al Gore would be talking about politics. I don't understand how inviting a candidate to speak isn't crossing the line, but a pastor endorsing one is. Seems to me that either both are fine, or neither are.

Providing a forum for a speaker is not necessarily the same as the pastor slapping an official church endorsement of a candidate. It's a gray area when you have a political speaker, but churches are places that hold themselves out as open to the public, and in many communities, they are an integral part. If this pastor had sent a letter out on his own, I think it would be fine. Doing it on church letterhead conveys that it is the church's endorsement. I know he said it was his "personal" endorsement in the letter, but I think he knew what he was doing.

nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Having guest speakers is a whole different animal than political promotion directly by the church pastor.

GaryPDX: nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Having guest speakers is a whole different animal than political promotion directly by the church pastor.

Dear Lord, you are capable of rational thought!

GaryPDX: Having guest speakers is a whole different animal than political promotion directly by the church pastor.

Yeah it is, but when that speaker is a political candidate who is there solely to talk about partisan politics, it's hard not to see that as an endorsement.

PurplePimpSaber: GaryPDX: nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

Having guest speakers is a whole different animal than political promotion directly by the church pastor.

Dear Lord, you are capable of rational thought!

Dude..This is the greatest snark site on the planet and I live it to the fullest. Once in a blue moon I let logic slip...hahahaha

I'm kidding...I just took my meds.

/grin

Tax religion.

/well, not religion, per se, but no special exemptions.

Lionel Mandrake: Tax religion.

/well, not religion, per se, but no special exemptions.

Of course, then they can directly endorse candidates, set up lobbying offices, lobby candidates, make political campaign contributions, run their own political ads, completely eradicate the separation of church and state...

Nabb1: Lionel Mandrake: Tax religion.

/well, not religion, per se, but no special exemptions.

Of course, then they can directly endorse candidates, set up lobbying offices, lobby candidates, make political campaign contributions, run their own political ads, completely eradicate the separation of church and state...

But at least he'll be happy he got to "stick it" to the churches. He does not appear to have thought out his cunning plan completely through though.

nekom: But when Al Gore gives a speech at a black church, that's fine.

It wasn't his church. He couldn't tell the congregation, "Vote for me or God will cast you into hell." or "God told me he wants you to vote for this person." Sure there are people in the church who think on their own, but there are some who will do whatever their pastor or priest tells them. A guest speaker? Probably not so much.

Dasboot: EPA?

NEA?

ATF?

DHS? (yay, gitmo!)

BIA? (work for, getting kick, etc)

CIA?

Yeah... but who are the Scientologists voting for???

RocketRod: Yeah... but who are the Scientologists voting for???

Anonymous?

Nabb1: Of course, then they can directly endorse candidates, set up lobbying offices, lobby candidates, make political campaign contributions, run their own political ads

Yeah...they do nothing of the sort now.

muck4doo: But at least he'll be happy he got to "stick it" to the churches. He does not appear to have thought out his cunning plan completely through though.

How is making everyone subject to the same tax rules "sticking it" to anyone?

EatHam: Careful what you wish for. That will give churches the same rights and access to government that corporations have.

Yea, because they don't already act as if they have divine rights to do all of that.

RocketRod: Yeah... but who are the Scientologists voting for???

If they told you, they'd have to kill you.

The IRS, I hope.

I'm sick and tired of these Religionistas wanting to hold sway over our government without having to pay taxes.

You wanna watch the circus? Pay the price of admission, cocksucker!