Hey, this thread still has marks where the jockey was hitting it!

The inference here is that for every six rich kids getting a college degree, there's one poor kid that gets one.

That's not exactly a "barrier" to a degree.

"I've sentenced boys younger than you to the gas chamber. Didn't want to do it. Felt I owed it to them."

Money can be used to buy goods and services.

More money = more goods and services.

Who would have thunk.

Now STFU and save some money for your kids.

I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

"So what? So lets dance!!!"

Journey music starts......

omg! the article is promoting class warfare!

Never tell me the odds!

Didn't want to +1 this headline - felt I owed it to it.

radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

Might this suggest some kind of *shocking* correlation that affluent people might simply be smarter?


No, that's not it, they had better opportunities.

I would be interested to see what percentage of poor kids that get degrees actually make something of themselves. Or are they all like me.

/first person in family to get a degree
//Got a Masters
/// Works retail because I don't interview well.

The reality is that society has quite a few niches to fill that don't require a college degree.

I don't even mean low education positions*, no: I don't know how it is in the US (in general), but I wish my high school had promoted going into trades nearly as much as it promoted university.

* - Fines Arts/School of Music graduates feel free to apply!

tshetter:

Money can be used to buy goods and services.

More money = more goods and services.

College tuition is subsidized by the government

Government subsidy = increase in price

radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

And I am waiting for the conservative response that such an education gap is perfectly acceptable in a country that is losing its grip on its first-world status.

I'd much rather be paying to educate brown people here than to blow them up elsewhere.

HMS_Blinkin: Might this suggest some kind of *shocking* correlation that affluent people might simply be smarter?



This guy is affluent, but I won't call him "smart".

radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

Mildling amusing, for a Randist troll. Not even this (new window) document goes that far. The most I've ever heard is that those people qualified to go to college should have the opportunity. No one has ever said there's a right to graduate.

radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

I'm waiting for someone to post a ludicrous straw man. Oh nevermind.

Poor people who actually achieve in high school or even just get decent grades can get pretty much a free ride to a community college and work his way up to state without all that much in the way of tuition. shiat, my grades were mediocre and I went to an expensive ass private college without paying all that much. My student loans are such that I've contemplated faking my own death but I got to go.

Is it as easy as with the rich kids? No but nothing is.

In Tennessee if you have a B average you can go to college for FREE

/No excuses

Could you loofah my stretch marks?

Actually, Bush is quite intelligent. Just profoundly wrong on many issues.

If you want it, you'll get it. Student loans, jobs, selling plasma, medical trials for Hilltop research for beer money. I grew up poor and have JD, MBA.


And $105,000 owed to Ms. Mae.

HMS_Blinkin: Might this suggest some kind of *shocking* correlation that affluent people might simply be smarter?


No, that's not it, they had better opportunities.


I wish I had been smart enough to be born into a rich family.

I can't this article hard enough

Do the rich kids and poor kids have a similar IQ?

If intelligence is partly genetic why is this a surprise?

As much as we would like to believe that Einstein's children and children from parents born in a jungle one generation ago are born equal, its not the case.

Fluff Girl: radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

And I am waiting for the conservative response that such an education gap is perfectly acceptable in a country that is losing its grip on its first-world status.

I'd much rather be paying to educate brown people here than to blow them up elsewhere.

A college degree is extremely overrated. As I'm sure many of us can attest to, it does not guarantee a well-paying job. College is heavily promoted and government subsidized and the only people who benefit are academics. And after 4 years of college and 3 years of law school I can tell you that academics are among the most useless and overpaid people in this country.

radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

I don't know who would go that far. Clearly sending *everyone* to college is ridiculous, because a lot of people really won't get much out of it.

The key would be to ensure all kids get the same opportunities for education earlier in life, and then from there, see who did what with their opportunities, and who gets to go to college.

A true meritocracy. I don't see any other way. Advocates of "little government" might have a problem with this, but truly, if you're allowing wealthier kids to get educations, while the poor kids are stuck dodging bullets at schools that resemble war zones, you're basically saying "This Government does not treat all citizens equally, and I have NO PROBLEM with that."

Anyone who doesn't think this is a big deal, read Player Piano.

ne2d:

College is heavily promoted and government subsidized and the only people who benefit are academics. And after 4 years of college and 3 years of law school I can tell you that academics are among the most useless and overpaid people in this country.

*gasp* - you're right! How could I have not seen it before???

Quick, let's scrap the national educational system, right down to preschool. We can use the money to give tax breaks to the rich!

dustman81: HMS_Blinkin: Might this suggest some kind of *shocking* correlation that affluent people might simply be smarter?

This guy is affluent, but I won't call him "smart".

Correlations certainly include space for outliers. There are plenty of affluent idiots and plenty of bright poor people. However, it is a fantasy to believe that the poor and rich should be attending college in equal numbers, even if the system were based wholly on merit. I DO feel that all the races and both genders ought to be proportionally represented (assuming a true meritocracy, which sadly doesn't exist), but the truth is that college isn't for everyone. Did Bush go to Yale entirely because of his Daddy's money? Of course. In a fair world, he would have struggled to pay his way through an average state school, which I think is where his actual abilities place him. And brilliant poor people like Anne Moody would take his place at Yale rather than struggling to pay for community college. I am just saying that outliers aside, that is not true in all cases. I grew up in rural OH, and have met some poor people who are dipshiats, the kind like in the "Man who knocked up his son's 18-year-old girlfriend and then tried to run him over with the family car says he hopes everyone can just get along again" thread.
It is too simple to blame the system for every inequity that comes along.

And the poor will always be poor until we increase the valuableness of the working class by ending the importation of poverty labor. Instead, we fret when labor shortages occur. Labor shortages are the ticket to enrichening the working class and narrowing the gap between rich and poor.

needs more caddyshack quotes

ne2d:
A college degree is extremely overrated.

And sadly enough, it's partly because rich families can pay to send all their dumbass kids to college. They skate by, graduate with a C average, and end up with the same degree that the poor kid who earned scholarships and paid for the rest by working through college ended up with.

Now we have a workforce saturated with degrees.

Noam Chimpsky: And the poor will always be poor until we increase the valuableness of the working class by ending the importation of poverty labor. Instead, we fret when labor shortages occur. Labor shortages are the ticket to enrichening the working class and narrowing the gap between rich and poor.

You've embiggened this discussion with your cromulent post.

Why no, the Constitution does not guarantee everyone a college degree. I'm a liberal verging on socialist, so you can take that as our collective response. I'd show you my card, but the 2008s haven't been printed yet.

I will say, however, that it's more economically beneficial to remove access barriers to intelligent but poor kids who want to go to college. Rich kids haven't cornered the market on smart, and a rich kid can dig a ditch as fast as a poor kid. I think it behooves us to set the next generation up with the smartest business and political leaders possible, and that includes improving teacher salaries, more equitably distributing primary and secondary education services, and setting more space aside in colleges for those who can't afford it.

Basically, a true meritocracy is better than concentrating wealth and power among the top 10%. It leads to a more diverse and inherently more intelligent leadership stock. Though no, college isn't guaranteed by the Constitution.

GoodasGold: As much as we would like to believe that Einstein's children and children from parents born in a jungle one generation ago are born equal, its not the case.

It's in the hole!

Noam Chimpsky: And the poor will always be poor until we increase the valuableness of the working class by ending the importation of poverty labor. Instead, we fret when labor shortages occur. Labor shortages are the ticket to enrichening the working class and narrowing the gap between rich and poor.

Hence, the bilateral failure to control illegal immigration.

ne2d:
A college degree is extremely overrated. As I'm sure many of us can attest to, it does not guarantee a well-paying job. College is heavily promoted and government subsidized and the only people who benefit are academics. And after 4 years of college and 3 years of law school I can tell you that academics are among the most useless and overpaid people in this country.

Nothing guarantees a well-paying job, but a quick Google search produces an assload of data that overall, people with degrees have better jobs that pay more, and enjoy better qualities of life as measured in a variety of ways. Savings, political awareness -- plenty of aspects in which we are sorely lacking in our society.

Every time there is a snowfall story on Fark, a hundred people will jump in to point out the "myth" of global warming. We just cant afford to get any dumber.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Insert copy of "That's Racist" kid.

I don't keep score...

How do you measure yourself up against other golfers?

By height.

/coming from a short golfer
//not this short

radioman_: I'm waiting for the liberal/socialist response, that somehow the Constitution guarantees everyone a college degree.

How about the liberal response that says just because something isn't guaranteed doesn't mean it's not a good idea?

/The constitution doesn't guarantee anyone perpetual war or corporate welfare, either, but we have it....

I'll be honest, I'd have assumed the numbers were much worse than that. As someone up above said, as long as those who show they have the ability to succeed have the opportunity, I figure we're doing okay. Do we 'owe' it to them? No. Does society damn well owe it to itself if it wants to survive? Hell yes. If society wants to continue to succeed (and thank god that somehow we haven't quite hit FAIL yet), it has to aggressively promote opportunity for those with the ability to make use of it. Do the smart poor kids end up better off for it? Yeah, but that's just a lucky by-product.

I'd be interested to find out how many of those poor kids dropped out of HS too.

HMS_Blinkin: Might this suggest some kind of *shocking* correlation that affluent people might simply be smarter?


No, that's not it, they had better opportunities.

Is it so hard to believe that people with a higher intelligence level tend to succeed financially and thus create better opportunities for themselves, and in this case, for their children? To me it is much more believable than suggesting that financially successful people have a higher intelligence level.

ne2d: A college degree is extremely overrated

Maybe, but the piece of paper itself is necessary to get most kinds of real jobs.

Sheeple are easier to control and manipulate.

If society was truly interested in educating it's own ever single form of education would be 100% free.