And another big reason is that almost a third goes into the insurance company in profits and in paying people to deny your coverage.

But you are right, it would be a lot cheaper if it covered nothing.

Suck it, subby.

But the biggest reason of course is that the health care industy is ridiculously expensive, and the insurance companies are a total ripoff scam.

As a fat, wig-wearing, cancer-riddled massage therapist, I really don't see what the problem is.

Just wait until it's free!

pootsie: And another big reason is that almost a third goes into the insurance company in profits and in paying people to deny your coverage.

Yes but the cancer patient's wigs really cut into those profits.

I'm technically a fattie. I go to the doctor once a year and have have complete physical and blood work. I'm 33 and everything is perfect. My "good" cholesterol number was 4 points lower than optimal last time. My doctor says she wished all her patients had the results I did.

According to the "THIS IS NOT A BILL" thing I get form my insurance company it costs them $500 for everything. Which I'm sure is like $300 after all the discounts and shiat applies. We pay $179 a month for coverage. I have a prescription for Lunesta that I filled once last year.

I can't get my husband to go to the doctor if I drugged him. My two oldest kids are past the age of vaccinations. They get a yearly check up for school. Those are $50 each. My son has one more set of vaccinations and he's done until he's 6. Aside from a fever when he was teething he's never been sick. I figure the insurance company has made $1500 or more off us a year for the past 3 years.

Dancin_In_Anson: Just wait until it's free!

Killjoy.

Wake me up when I can buy health insurance like I buy auto insurance.

ManRay: Wake me up when I can buy health insurance like I buy auto insurance.

you almost can. get a catastrophic plan with a health care savings account.

the problem is, every interest group and disease agency trots out the sick people and convinces lawmakers to include them on the list of required coverage. and we all applaud how caring and sensitive that is and then wonder why our premiums are so high.

I always thought people like me were the reason health insurance was so expensive.

The Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) is "a research and advocacy association of insurance carriers active in the individual, small group, MSA and senior markets. CAHI's membership includes insurance companies, small businesses, providers, nonprofit associations, actuaries, insurance brokers and individuals. Since 1992, CAHI has been an active advocate for market-oriented solutions to the problems in America's health care system ... CAHI is an association of small and mid-sized insurance companies, actuarial firms, legislative consultants, physicians and insurance agents," its website states.

Just in case you were wondering...

wigs are expensive?

It's nice to know that the CAHI thinks a mammogram is a "benefit".

KyngNothing: Just in case you were wondering...

of course. mandates raise their costs, increasing premiums to the consumer, pricing more of them out of insurance. it's hard to sell insurance if people can't afford it.

It's nice to know that the CAHI thinks a mammogram is a "benefit".

not for the single males who want to buy insurance

archeochick: It's nice to know that the CAHI thinks a mammogram is a "benefit".

D-I-A is right, they should be free.
How YOU doin?

So, the government mandates that health insurance companies provide health coverage - like chiropractic care, mammograms, naturopathy, obesity treatment, etc, - for a range of the population including adults and *gasp* children and *double-gasp* old people.

Yes, it woudl be much more profitable for insurance companies to take all your money and provide no services at all. Of course, they try their hardest to do that anyway. And would, if not for...wait for it...government mandates!

The best way to avoid the additional costs that these mandates imply is, of course, to cut out the middle man - allow government to provide all the services, without any health insurance companies at all.

Happy now insurance company shills and lobbyists?

WSJ is just neoconservative troll.

pootsie: And another big reason is that almost a third goes into the insurance company in profits and in paying people to deny your coverage.

But you are right, it would be a lot cheaper if it covered nothing.

Suck it, subby.

This!

albo: you almost can. get a catastrophic plan with a health care savings account.

True. I was thinking more of being able to buy from a company out of state (more competition) and pick and choose my coverages more specifically instead of state mandated coverages that keep all policies pretty much the same. Not having to have a job that offers a plan in order to get a decent price would be nice too.

i can't wait to move to another country if they "cut out the middleman". that will be really great. 10 % unemployment and no health services in the whole country.

/which is why there's no danger of any reform happening, no matter who wins...

This site just keeps getting stupider. There's no such thing as global warming! Creeping socialism is threatening Amurrica! Hillary's a lesbo! The Jews control everything! HIPPIES!!!

If the government takes over, who am I going to sue when I am denied coverage for something?

pootsie: And another big reason is that almost a third goes into the insurance company in profits and in paying people to deny your coverage.

But you are right, it would be a lot cheaper if it covered nothing.

Suck it, subby.

Winner.

Dancin_In_Anson: Just wait until it's free!

Think about what kind of care you will get once it is "free." Socialized heath care, much like communism, works only in theory.

stupid fatties, stop being so fat.
\or pay me.

And-1: Yes, it woudl be much more profitable for insurance companies to take all your money and provide no services at all.

you buy insurance based on what is covered. companies put the coverages there in their policy book. you can read it before buying. I have our blue cross book at home--wanna read it?

it's a contract you make with the company. if it covers nothing and you still sign up for it, then it is you who is the idiot.

hehehehe. I "make" money on my health insurance.

Pay in $300/month; take a $1700/month prescription.

S-Bizzy: Dancin_In_Anson: Just wait until it's free!

Think about what kind of care you will get once it is "free." Socialized heath care, much like communism, works only in theory.

As opposed to private health care, which for many Americans, doesn't work in reality.

$650 a month
2 adults
1 child

whidbey: But the biggest reason of course is that the health care industy is ridiculously expensive, and the insurance companies are a total ripoff scam.

Having formerly worked for a couple of health insurers (and having a wife that still does) THIS!!!!

The cross-billing, and cross-billing of cross-billing of cross-billing is insane. You might pay for having to pay for paying for (name the procedure). The insurance companies partner with the hospitals and rape those without insurance even more. Let's say the real cost is = 1. The hospital with charge it's "partner" insurer 1/3-2/3 price and then charge 5 times the normal price to an uncovered or non-partner insurer. The hospital and insurers also hide profits with multiple subsidiary departments / companies cross-billing each other, repeatedly, to eat up profits and often owning a non-profit to shove more profits towards, et al.

Insurance companies are scams. I won't even go into the property insurer I worked for... Insurance companies: paperwork hell that'd give a Vogon bureaucrat nightmares.

ManRay: True. I was thinking more of being able to buy from a company out of state (more competition) and pick and choose my coverages more specifically instead of state mandated coverages that keep all policies pretty much the same

the problem is, each state regulates insurance within its borders. so a company has to get licensed in that state.

ManRay: If the government takes over, who am I going to sue when I am denied coverage for something?

you can sue the Department of Suck It, Taxpayer.

"A big reason health insurance is so expensive is because there are 1,961 state-mandated coverages that must be included in plans, including massage therapists, wigs for cancer patients and coverage for fatties"

Also because there is so much redundant bureaucracy spread across many different insurance providers.

ManRay: If the government takes over, who am I going to sue when I am denied coverage for something?

I imagine you would appeal it to the appropriate government agency the same way social security disability determinations are handled. And that usually takes years. Good luck with that.

albo:
you almost can. get a catastrophic plan with a health care savings account.


Where 'you' means young and healthy, yes. Where 'you' means my mom who lost a kidney to cancer a several years ago? HA HA HAHAHA! But, if you get denied a few times, you are eligible in my state for a quite-expensive, quite lousy, taxpayer-subsidized plan. Private profit, socialized costs = WIN for someone.

And-1: Yes, it woudl be much more profitable for insurance companies to take all your money and provide no services at all.

Or you could just choose the coverage you want and probably end up paying less -- much like the article was suggesting.

And I'm sure if we take those away, the insurance companies will GLADLY slash their prices.

All insurance is based on the idea that you collect money for coverage from some (usually pretty large) population that will never use the coverage, so that you have enough money to pay the people that do get sick. Otherwise the cost of the insurance policy would be the same as if you paid all the bills yourself out of your take home pay. More actually, because you have to pay for the insurance company building, employees, etc. Every tried to get vision or dental coverage? It usually sucks because everyone uses all the benefits all the time, so there is no pooling effect to mitigate the risks. Last time I looked at dental, two office visits per year was $120 bucks. My premium would have been $125.

Two big distinctions here:

1) what the insurance company has to offer
b) what you have to buy.

The problem is that the government mandates often seem to cause the two to be mixed. So:

All insurance companies must offer a plan that provides coverage for maternity.

As a single male, I should be able choose a plan that doesn't cover that. So if I get pregnant, I have to write a check to the doctor. Insurance companies don't like that becuase if all policies include a price for that coverage, they know that 50% of all the insureds will never use it, so it goes straight to their bottom line.

OK, extreme example. But how about:

All insurance companies must offer a plan that covers routine doctor visits for colds and flu.

As a relatively healthy young adult, I rarely get colds or flu, and when I do, I just take to my bed and don't go to the doctor. So why can't I buy a policy with a really high deductible, or that even excludes routine visits, and doesn't kick in until I'm bleeding or parts are falling off?

See Hillary's health care plan. She insinuates that not only will all companies have to offer the coverages she mandates, but all people in the country will have to buy the policies, and if they choose not to, their wages will be garnished (taxed) to pay their insurance bill.

Its a big mess, but like most big messes, be very careful before you decide that having the Federal Government involved will make it better.

faxinator: As a fat, wig-wearing, cancer-riddled massage therapist, I really don't see what the problem is.

hehe

Smellvin: And-1: Yes, it woudl be much more profitable for insurance companies to take all your money and provide no services at all.

Or you could just choose the coverage you want and probably end up paying less -- much like the article was suggesting.

What is this "choice" you speak of? As I understand it, I'm stuck with what my employer offers or buying individual pared-down-covers-nothing insurance for outrageous rates.

Either way, I can tell you right now I have no coverage for obesity treatment, even if I have heart disease, high blood pressure, and diabetes combined, all which would be cured if the first part was cured.

wowzer97pooh: S-Bizzy: Dancin_In_Anson: Just wait until it's free!

Think about what kind of care you will get once it is "free." Socialized heath care, much like communism, works only in theory.

As opposed to private health care, which for many Americans, doesn't work in reality.

While I agree that the cost of health care has gone up tremendously in the last decade or so, private insurance is still a better option. Tort reform would probably help bring the costs back a bit in that doctors don't need eleventy billion dollars in mal-practice coverage because they circumcised a kid at the parents request, which in turn upset the parents.

The rationing of health care by the government does not seem like the best fix for medicine in this country.

/Just my 0.02

I'm now convinced that the height of humour is to read or hear an American scoff at the quality of care that other socialized systems around the world provide.

Numbers time,
1/3 of the money the insurance compnaies take in is profit you say?
1/2 of which goes back out as taxes I say.

Do you really think that the people who can't manage the current government budget will be able to manage an additional health care budget? Who will make the decisions on what procedures to allow and deny?

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Who will make the decisions on what procedures to allow and deny?

exactly.

1. it may be less coverage than people get now privately, leading millions to complain

2. even worse, it may be more coverage because every lobbyist in the country will descend upon congress and convince them to cover every disease and affliction in the name of caring and being compassionate, leading to a bankrupt nation

Pick-and-choose insurance coverage? I wish

/If only cable tv would have that too

miseducated: I'm now convinced that the height of humour is to read or hear an American scoff at the quality of care that other socialized systems around the world provide.


Quick question:

If you had to have a major operation performed at no cost to you, would you rather have it performed in the U.S. or Canada?

/Granted, I've only had to deal with doctors here in the U.S., so I'm just curious.

The federal government is what farked up the system in the first place.

inglixthemad: Insurance companies are scams. I won't even go into the property insurer I worked for... Insurance companies: paperwork hell that'd give a Vogon bureaucrat nightmares.

Well, at least you don't have to listen to poetry.

Mayhem of the Black Underclass: Numbers time,
1/3 of the money the insurance compnaies take in is profit you say?
1/2 of which goes back out as taxes I say.

Do you really think that the people who can't manage the current government budget will be able to manage an additional health care budget? Who will make the decisions on what procedures to allow and deny?

WHen it is universal health care there is no such thing as getting denied. Not where I live anyway. It can be a little slow for elective surgeries but serious stuff happens fast usually. It is of course subject to the same oversights as any large organization.

The_Sponge: If you had to have a major operation performed at no cost to you, would you rather have it performed in the U.S. or Canada?

History has already answered that question for me.

/Here in Canada.

miseducated: The_Sponge: If you had to have a major operation performed at no cost to you, would you rather have it performed in the U.S. or Canada?

History has already answered that question for me.

/Here in Canada.


How come?

BTW, I understand if you don't want to answer that one, since medical stuff can get too personal sometimes.

Lesse... my insurace bill goes for:
1) paying people so they can determine they won't cover me in the first place
2) company jets
3) lobbyists
4) Paying even more people so they can argue about not covering me
5) marketting
6) doctors
7) meds
8) overhead for the doctors/pharmacies

anything else I missed?
Can we go to a single payer system so we can get ride of the useless overhead of 1-5 please. Thank you.