So you'll be paying ~2% less on a book whose value is artificially inflated ~75%?

/plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

UNC_Samurai: /plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

You farking goats. UNC sucks. Go Pirates.

Where is all this money going...?

Can we please work on finding was of REDUCING TEXTBOOK PRICES instead?

/Got lucky, and did not have to buy any textbooks this semester. His E&M class is using the book he used in undergrads, and his quantum class is using what they used last semester.

//Which is good, because new physics books are almost always AMAZINGLY EXPENSIVE...

UNC_Samurai: So you'll be paying ~2% less on a book whose value is artificially inflated ~75%?

/plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

It's a problem that new editions appear so rapidly, and we just gotta try to keep up. The man has us by the nuts.

Awesome, I'm going to school full time and I also brew my own beer. A winnar is me.

O'Malley is a farking moron.

This being a textbook thread I just thought I'd plug a site I found out about. Chegg.com . It's great, you can rent textbooks for a fraction of the price. I had a $80 book I needed and rented the whole thing for less than $30 after adding in the shipping. And the when you have to return it, the return shipping is prepaid. True, you can't sell it for profit, but to match the savings I make just renting it, I would have to sell the book for $50. And as anyone who's had to buy text books can tell you, it's hard to sell a used textbook if you don't sell it at a considerable discount, and the book stores give you maybe 25% of the original selling price in buy back deals, regardless of the condition of the book.

UNC_Samurai: So you'll be paying ~2% less on a book whose value is artificially inflated ~75%?

/plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

This.

International editions are beautiful things.

Nothing like getting an engineering book sold for $200 here for a tenth of the price overseas.

Yeah, because the sales tax is what makes my textbooks so expensive, not the fact that they're about 500% more expensive than they should be in the first place and our professors always order the newest edition even if there is nothing new substantive in it.

Fluid: It's a problem that new editions appear so rapidly, and we just gotta try to keep up. The man has us by the nuts.

Too true, too true. And the sad fact is, most new editions are just old editions that have had the information moved around a little. My experience is that most new editions have little to offer in new information, and what little new information has been added could have probably been added into the course in the form of supplemental readings from other sources. I realize certain fields, like history/current events, science, and technology have constantly changing information, and as such I can see an updated textbook 3-5 years, maybe even longer, given how much new material and info there is to be added on, and how impractical it is to cover it by relying on additional sources. Other fields, like math, i mean, c'mon. It's not like algebra has honestly changed that much over the years.

They were sick of college students saying "Do you know how much beer we could buy if we didn't get a physics book?"

Don't pretend it never happened, you've probably said it yourself.

Text-books are the biggest ripoff, particularly custom course material that some professors have made for thier courses. Because of copyright fees paid to the original publisher, the cost per page printed jumps from $0.04, to 0.40$ per page... It is no wonder why people photocopy text materials to save on costs....

Fluid: UNC_Samurai: So you'll be paying ~2% less on a book whose value is artificially inflated ~75%?

/plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

It's a problem that new editions appear so rapidly, and we just gotta try to keep up. The man has us by the nuts.

Buy the foreign versions online. They are usually softback, but only 25% of the price and you can sell them to someone else and get all your money back.

It's a thread about Maryland, and Baltimore is in Maryland, so here's a picture of Omar walking down the street:



Carry on.

I had a beginner's Latin textbook, and when I transferred schools, I took a class that used the same book, but a newer edition. I said to myself, "no, there's no way that this fixed language could have changed", so I didn't buy it. There were exactly two incidents where I noticed differences. All the homework, all the lessons, word-for-word otherwise.

And now I'm a math major, with >$100 textbooks for every book if you go through the school store. It is a giant farking scam.

matt2891: This being a textbook thread I just thought I'd plug a site I found out about. Chegg.com . It's great, you can rent textbooks for a fraction of the price. I had a $80 book I needed and rented the whole thing for less than $30 after adding in the shipping. And the when you have to return it, the return shipping is prepaid. True, you can't sell it for profit, but to match the savings I make just renting it, I would have to sell the book for $50. And as anyone who's had to buy text books can tell you, it's hard to sell a used textbook if you don't sell it at a considerable discount, and the book stores give you maybe 25% of the original selling price in buy back deals, regardless of the condition of the book.

I used to sell them to other students via finding the used book cost, how much the book store would pay and splitting the difference.

ghostwind: Ah photocopying...Another favorite trick... Depending on the amount of reading you have to do in a course this may or may not be a viable option. If you have a 500 page textbook and you're going to be reading a subtantial amount of that book, like say 400 pages of it, then you probably wont get off any cheaper photocopying it. It's always worthwhile to see if the college library has a copy of a particular textbook. I've photocopied out of those a couple of ways.

Uncle Karl: I remember an editorial by the bookstore staff in my college paper claiming that they in no way turn a profit with the buy back policy. Which as a crock. It's simple math: If the book store buys a book back from a student at $12 and then turns around and sells it for $50, how can you NOT turn a profit that way? I mean, if they had to rebind the book or something that could eat into a profit but all they do is stick a friggin 'USED' sticker on the spine.

/plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

I'd just like to point out that authors get almost jack for their academic books. The profit margin is all in the textbook manufacturers. They are the reason new editions come out every year. They are the reason books are marked up 75%. They are the ones paying teachers to require students to buy certain editions.

The textbook racket is a bone fide cartel architected to transfer wealth by forced participation to a small number of people who own the publishing companies.

Conservatives rant about welfare but have no problems funneling money to their corp overlords at taxpayer expense.

"It's not welfare when we do it."

Actually, now that I'm looking at reasons why textbooks are so expensive, this article has a decent explanation - the organized used book market has made it so that publishers have to make up the profits that used book sales have taken away.

matt2891: ghostwind: Ah photocopying...Another favorite trick... Depending on the amount of reading you have to do in a course this may or may not be a viable option. If you have a 500 page textbook and you're going to be reading a subtantial amount of that book, like say 400 pages of it, then you probably wont get off any cheaper photocopying it. It's always worthwhile to see if the college library has a copy of a particular textbook. I've photocopied out of those a couple of ways.

Some professors put the books on reserve. This way they are always in there and you can read them when you have time. I read several this way, sure it is a PITA to go to the library twice a week to read a chapter or two, but for the money saved it was worth it.

Number41: Actually, now that I'm looking at reasons why textbooks are so expensive, this article has a decent explanation - the organized used book market has made it so that publishers have to make up the profits that used book sales have taken away.

Then why are the international versions so much cheaper?

/in short that is a crock of shiat

Can we please work on finding was of REDUCING TEXTBOOK PRICES instead?

Get this person a beer. The prices are rediclous. I am doing my second degree in this flying spaghetti monster foresaken country and it bad enough I have to do liberal art courses and a bunch of pointless stuff, but do I have to pay on average $80-200 for a subject book that last a semester, from a text that is worth about 1/4 of the price? At the college I attend they don't even tell you what books you need until you get there and then it too late to find anywhere it is cheaper. The textbook companies are as much a cartel as anything is.

Uncle Karl: Then why are the international versions so much cheaper?

I'm not sure - the article was written by a textbook author, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. My guess is that the warehouses that handle used textbooks aren't international.

Still, though, for any reason that you give, the question of why international versions are cheaper still stands - if they can get away with scamming Americans out of so much money, why not overseas?

As a student at a public university in MD, I think I have every right to say about farking time.

My math book would have cost $180 new, but since I could only buy it using financial aid I went with used from the college book store for $140. If I had had spare money to buy it my self I found it for $40 used on Amazon.

What really sucks is econ or government books since they constantly require you to buy new books. I've got an econ book that cost about $190 last year and I don't know what to do with it.

Number41: Uncle Karl: Then why are the international versions so much cheaper?

I'm not sure - the article was written by a textbook author, so you have to take it with a grain of salt. My guess is that the warehouses that handle used textbooks aren't international.

Still, though, for any reason that you give, the question of why international versions are cheaper still stands - if they can get away with scamming Americans out of so much money, why not overseas?

Amazon is not international?

Now if they could only do something about their driving.

_{pssst, it's terrible}

Uncle Karl: Amazon is not international?

From what I understand, most university bookstores are owned, or at least their books are supplied, by large companies that own lots of bookstores. So when you sell back your books to the campus bookstore, that company gathers all the books from the different campuses and stores them together, until a school puts in an order for them. I'd imagine that coordinating that with overseas stores would kill profits because of shipping costs, but I don't know. In any case, most students buy their books this way, and I assume publishers know it.

Amazon's a different (and better) system, where there's more competition and less markup. As far as I know, Amazon itself doesn't carry the used books, it's the individual sellers that they partner with.

Yeah, textbook prices are so exorbitant. Math and English books should be so damned cheap. What's funny is my discrete math prof was talking about how he picked the cheapest book he could find, and it was $40... and I was so grateful how cheap that was. I am hoping textbook torrenting becomes more popular. I could not find my English or linear algebra books on-line, and they were expensive. At least I already had an old linear algebra book and a pdf of a GNU-licensed book so all I needed to do was buy the required book and copy the problem sets then return it for a full refund. If anything, it would be awesome if all professors just used the same book for a given subject... that way it would be easy to find downloads. I know my calculus book is pretty much standard issue, and I had no problem downloading it.

/Fight against the establishment.

Uncle Karl: Some professors put the books on reserve. This way they are always in there and you can read them when you have time. I read several this way, sure it is a PITA to go to the library twice a week to read a chapter or two, but for the money saved it was worth it.

Meh. I spent quite a bit of time in the library anyway, so an extra hour or two a week to save a few hundred in textbook costs seems like a fair trade to me.

Number41: Uncle Karl: Amazon is not international?

From what I understand, most university bookstores are owned, or at least their books are supplied, by large companies that own lots of bookstores. So when you sell back your books to the campus bookstore, that company gathers all the books from the different campuses and stores them together, until a school puts in an order for them. I'd imagine that coordinating that with overseas stores would kill profits because of shipping costs, but I don't know. In any case, most students buy their books this way, and I assume publishers know it.

Amazon's a different (and better) system, where there's more competition and less markup. As far as I know, Amazon itself doesn't carry the used books, it's the individual sellers that they partner with.

Which proves that the article you linked too was a crock of shiat. They want enormous profits and that is fine, but to claim it is because of used books is bullshiat. They could just admit they want tons of money, how hard is that?

Uncle Karl: Which proves that the article you linked too was a crock of shiat. They want enormous profits and that is fine, but to claim it is because of used books is bullshiat. They could just admit they want tons of money, how hard is that?

Are you mad at publishers or bookstores?

Number41: Uncle Karl: Which proves that the article you linked too was a crock of shiat. They want enormous profits and that is fine, but to claim it is because of used books is bullshiat. They could just admit they want tons of money, how hard is that?

Are you mad at publishers or bookstores?

Publishers for lying about the prices. To say that it is because of the used market is a crock when a new version comes out every year. They could just admit they want tons of money.

Uncle Karl: Publishers for lying about the prices. To say that it is because of the used market is a crock when a new version comes out every year. They could just admit they want tons of money.

If anything, used book sales are the reason for constant new editions. For at least a semester, they've got no competition when they introduce a new version.

And of course, they're looking for a profit. They're a business. But when they sell a book, it has to cover what used to be several sales. It's a chicken-and-the-egg thing - they raise prices, so used books become more popular, demand goes down even more, prices go up. I'm not defending the system, but it's a reasonable explanation to why you can by a hardcover novel for a reasonable price, but not a textbook.

aresef: As a student at a public university in MD, I think I have every right to say about farking time.

And may I add I'm getting a kick out of these replies.

Kick out of replies.. student.. Md public university.. etc.

Thankfully, this should be my last semester (barring graduate study). And I am so pissed- just bought an economics textbook for $136.

Really? I mean, basic macroeconomics has really changed all that much since the last edition in 2005? Really now?
Oh, but it comes with a "free" website, that I'm required to use, which is why I was required to buy the new edition of the book. A website that requires I use IE and install plugins, including one with active x. brilliant.
Can I sue my farking professor if I get a virus or something? Please? Or something.

/seriously thinking about complaining to the administration. I've never had a class before that required more than a $90 textbook, and I was PISSED about that one too.
//poli sci major, history minor and most classes I'm in require $50-60 of textbooks, whether its one book, or multiple.

Number41: Uncle Karl: Publishers for lying about the prices. To say that it is because of the used market is a crock when a new version comes out every year. They could just admit they want tons of money.

If anything, used book sales are the reason for constant new editions. For at least a semester, they've got no competition when they introduce a new version.

And of course, they're looking for a profit. They're a business. But when they sell a book, it has to cover what used to be several sales. It's a chicken-and-the-egg thing - they raise prices, so used books become more popular, demand goes down even more, prices go up. I'm not defending the system, but it's a reasonable explanation to why you can by a hardcover novel for a reasonable price, but not a textbook.

Lowering prices is the only solution. If they don't want to do it, it does not matter someone buying the international version instead is doing it for them.

Number41: ut when they sell a book, it has to cover what used to be several sales.

No it does not. That has nothing to do with the price. Price is just what someone is willing to pay. The issue they are hitting is less and less are willing to pay that price, so either via used books or international versions they are not. If you produce something and the market price is less than you want, you either go out of business or deal with it. The real issue is that they have a monopoly on that book for some set of students.. If a class had the requirements as book A or B or C then the prices would come down via competition.

Uncle Karl: Number41: Uncle Karl: Publishers for lying about the prices. To say that it is because of the used market is a crock when a new version comes out every year. They could just admit they want tons of money.

If anything, used book sales are the reason for constant new editions. For at least a semester, they've got no competition when they introduce a new version.

And of course, they're looking for a profit. They're a business. But when they sell a book, it has to cover what used to be several sales. It's a chicken-and-the-egg thing - they raise prices, so used books become more popular, demand goes down even more, prices go up. I'm not defending the system, but it's a reasonable explanation to why you can by a hardcover novel for a reasonable price, but not a textbook.

Lowering prices is the only solution. If they don't want to do it, it does not matter someone buying the international version instead is doing it for them.

I think professors should be held accountable for the textbook prices. If 3/4 of my professors can keep their book costs under $50, why is it the other 1/4 are simply unable to? I'll give an exception for science courses and allow.. say.. $65. But there is NO reason for a professor to be requiring any textbook costing more than that. If there are no textbooks in your subject less than that cost, then make up a packet yourself of major readings, and make the bookstore sell copies of it.

Uncle Karl: Lowering prices is the only solution. If they don't want to do it, it does not matter someone buying the international version instead is doing it for them.

Well, if it does start eating into profits, they'll probably just raise international prices. I do think that the Internet will have an effect, though - used books through the bookstore are still really expensive. Amazon is always significantly cheaper, and now facebook has a textbook lister in their marketplace. It's possible the normal used book market will start taking a hit, making everything different. Hopefully for the better.

Uncle Karl: No it does not. That has nothing to do with the price. Price is just what someone is willing to pay. The issue they are hitting is less and less are willing to pay that price, so either via used books or international versions they are not. If you produce something and the market price is less than you want, you either go out of business or deal with it. The real issue is that they have a monopoly on that book for some set of students.. If a class had the requirements as book A or B or C then the prices would come down via competition.

Demand has everything to do with price. Production costs per book go up as demand goes down. That is how they "deal with it".

Katie98_KT: I think professors should be held accountable for the textbook prices.

I agree with this, too. The two cases are that either good textbooks all cost a lot, or professors just don't pay attention. However, since textbook prices all seem to be high everywhere, it's possible that this is just the market price. If there was a publisher that put out consistently good books for low prices, why wouldn't they take off? Either they don't exist, or professors don't care.

Appropos of nothing except Maryland, college and beer:

I must have already been in my "get off my lawn" stage by that point, but I remember thinking "what is wrong with this picture?" when UMCP's student services organized a bus trip to D.C. the weekend before D.C. raised it's drinking age. Nice signal you're sending there, buckaroo.


Oh... And E-texts FTW.

Number41: Demand has everything to do with price. Production costs per book go up as demand goes down. That is how they "deal with it".

I think you missed the "monopoly" point. Students are pretty much forced to buy whatever books. That means demand is virtually perfectly inelastic set right at a quantity near the number of students who have a class requiring the book.

Catastrofark: UNC_Samurai: /plans on being an academic stuffed shirt

You farking goats. UNC sucks. Go Pirates.

Have you seen my profile?

Replies, kick out of, UMD student who just spent $231 on a music history set of textbooks and another hundred on atonal theory books...

/at least I'll stretch the history books over three classes

Yay, my second green-light.

/I feel more proud than I should.