Why would you do that? Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

7of7: Why would you do that? Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

so speeding = drug abuse in your book?

A similar case also went to the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania in 1998 and a driver was cleared for flashing his high-beams ten or more times after passing a speed trap.

The LAW said it's not illegal. You've stated many times that you OBEY THE LAW. So if my state supreme court says it's legal - and you support the law - then why are we having this conversation?

7of7: Why would you do that? Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

If the genuine goal here is to make the roads safer, then warning people will cause them to slow down that much earlier, and make them that much (if marginally) safer. If the goal is to get revenue for the town, then yes, governments will be upset about it.

As a warehouse distribution driver,
I want to say that these people are very helpful.

Cops are pretty easy to spot though.

Weaver95: The LAW said it's not illegal. You've stated many times that you OBEY THE LAW. So if my state supreme court says it's legal - and you support the law - then why are we having this conversation?

You can flash your lights all you want. It just seems odd to do something to warn law breakers that they're nearing an effort by the police to catch them breaking the law. If you saw someone tagging a building and you knew a cop was nearby would you run up and warn them that the cops were nearby?

7of7: Weaver95: The LAW said it's not illegal. You've stated many times that you OBEY THE LAW. So if my state supreme court says it's legal - and you support the law - then why are we having this conversation?

You can flash your lights all you want. It just seems odd to do something to warn law breakers that they're nearing an effort by the police to catch them breaking the law. If you saw someone tagging a building and you knew a cop was nearby would you run up and warn them that the cops were nearby?

So your first assumption of their lawbreaking, is drugs?
Not speeding.....?

Now which is the more common 'crime'?

/hmmmmmm
//probably about even.

7of7: You can flash your lights all you want. It just seems odd to do something to warn law breakers that they're nearing an effort by the police to catch them breaking the law. If you saw someone tagging a building and you knew a cop was nearby would you run up and warn them that the cops were nearby?

But according to your strict interpretation of The Law, I don't HAVE to explain my reasons. The mere fact that it's not against the law is reason enough for me to do so.

So what's your problem here?

Weaver95: So what's your problem here?

I just wonder what motivates people to help others break the law and get away with it.

7of7: Weaver95: So what's your problem here?

I just wonder what motivates people to help others break the law and get away with it.

Because some laws are unjust?

7of7: Weaver95: So what's your problem here?

I just wonder what motivates people to help others break the law and get away with it.

What makes people want to punish others for every single infraction of the exact code of law?

Life isnt black and white.
You cant think of it that way.

/oh yeah, ever heard of sympathy?

7of7: You can flash your lights all you want. It just seems odd to do something to warn law breakers that they're nearing an effort by the police to catch them breaking the law. If you saw someone tagging a building and you knew a cop was nearby would you run up and warn them that the cops were nearby?


fark you and the self-righteous horse you rode in on!

Because some laws are unjust?

Yeah, I know that. Some laws are unjust and some are poorly conceived, like the entire War on Drugs, but we've had this discussion before. First I don't believe it's in the best interest of society for each person to decide which laws they will follow and which they won't. Second I think it is much better to address problems with laws by not electing lawmakers who will create such laws. Finally, and this is what really makes me mad, I believe people should be responsible for their actions. If you don't want to follow a law, fine, but you should be willing to accept the consequences of being caught. Speeders and people who park illegally don't accept the consequences. They act all picked on as if they're entitled to break the law. The sense of entitlement just rubs me the wrong way.

Prophetica Insipia: Life isnt black and white.

Life isn't. However, the laws should be black and white ways to tell exactly what is and isn't acceptable in our society.

Prophetica Insipia: ever heard of sympathy?

I don't have sympathy for people who choose to do something and have to face the consequences, be they getting a speeding ticket or being buried under an avalanche because they were skiing out of bounds.

fark a goddam speed trap. Oh, great idea, let's complicate law enforcement by turning it into a revenue collection agency.

When I first got to Memphis, I thought the people here were collectively retarded because they'd all slow down simultaneously at what seemed random locations and times--until one day I spied the cop sitting behind the cedar tree.

West Tennessee is the speed-trappinest place I ever lived. I have all the speed trap locations memorized, and use cruise control to get through them. I'll be damned if those assholes are getting my money, because that's the PRIMARY PURPOSE of a speed trap.

.

7of7: Why would you do that? Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

Well, if it was MY drug dealer then yes. Yes, I would.

7of7: Weaver95: So what's your problem here?

I just wonder what motivates people to help others break the law and get away with it.

Do you differentiate between a victimless crime and a crime where there is a victim? Because there's a big difference between catching someone who has just caused another party harm and picking on someone who is going a few mph over the limit.

7of7: First I don't believe it's in the best interest of society for each person to decide which laws they will follow and which they won't.

I think that's really the only way we CAN decided if a law is just or not.

Second I think it is much better to address problems with laws by not electing lawmakers who will create such laws.

Which is great if you happen to have $2+ million in the bank and can outspend various/sundry corporate and various issue advocacy groups to get your candidate elected. But for you and me? we don't get much of a say in who gets elected anymore.

Finally, and this is what really makes me mad, I believe people should be responsible for their actions. If you don't want to follow a law, fine, but you should be willing to accept the consequences of being caught. Speeders and people who park illegally don't accept the consequences. They act all picked on as if they're entitled to break the law. The sense of entitlement just rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe if you stopped worrying about other people, you'd have a much lower level of stress in your life.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: I'll be damned if those assholes are getting my money, because that's the PRIMARY PURPOSE of a speed trap.

QFT. Now if I see some drunk get behind the wheel of a car, I might speak up, but speed traps are revenue producers P&S. I don't like getting speeding tickets any more than the next guy, so unless you're going 180 in a 25 I'm still flashing, motherfarkers.

7of7: Why would you do that? Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

Depends, is he the guy I... umm, my friend buys from?

/kidding
//doesn't smoke anymore

Personally I'd prefer a solution that helps more than just one time, like caltrops, or a chain wrapped around the police car's rear axle.

Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

Yes.

i don't speed. nor do i alert other speeders of speed traps.
i could give a shiat about the law, or whether or not something's legal.

people who drive at ungodly speeds suck ass.
cops also kind of suck ass (not all, but a lot of them).

i hope the speeders get theirs, and i hope the cops get theirs as well. i'm not going to help either of them.
//hands at 10 and 2.

I've always flashed my brights to warn other drivers that their brights are on and blinding me. So I've inadvertently been telling them that there's a speed trap ahead? Good, let the inconsiderate high-beaming bastards wonder where the cops are hiding.

I hear that there are gangs of urban myths that cruise the roads and when someone flashes their lights, they hunt down and kill the people in that car.
-- Not a police officer.

Just don't flash them at a car full of gangmembers who're driving at night with their headlights off.

If speeding tickets were actually for safety and NOT for revenue I would be against the flashing of lights. I don't speed - have not had a ticket on 13 years - but I am against the high cost of speeding tickets.

Everyone seems to drive slower around me since I converted my headlights into strobes.

For me, this is one of those, "It depends" situations. If somebody is driving stupidly and I think they deserve it, I wouldn't warn them. But if they're doing 5-10 above the limit and looking safe I definitely would.

RocketRod: Just don't flash them at a car full of gangmembers who're driving at night with their headlights off.

That's a problem that sorts itself out without any help from me.

Around these parts, I watch the truckers. I slow down when they slow down.

The best warning I've ever had was on a semi-hilly, rarely-traveled road that is way too easy to go 85 on...I was tooling down it one day and this guy is looking to make a right turn onto the road a little bit ahead of me. He kept inching and inching himself onto the road and made me think "what an asshole" and step on the brake.

When I got closer there was a cop behind him waiting to make a right turn as well. I wanted to hug the guy.

/got a ticket on that road a year later. Oh well.

revenue generators

I flash high beams at drivers who appear to be going too fast. No cop ahead, but it'll slow them down anyway. Actually, it's more useful to warn drivers about accident scenes or other unexpected hazards ahead.

Few realize this, most just think their high beams are on.

Weaver95: 7of7: Weaver95: So what's your problem here?

I just wonder what motivates people to help others break the law and get away with it.

Because some laws are unjust?

If you find a law is unjust, you can't just go ahead and break it. You have to work within the system the change the law - if enough people feel as you do, the law will eventually be changed. It may take a good many years, but think of the satisfaction you get knowing you changed an unjust law..

So, you can't just break whichever laws don't suit you. Work to change them.

7of7: Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

Yes.

Can also be used to warn others of deer in the area, those can kill you!

Of course the police object. The purpose of flashing your lights is to get the other guys to slow down and comply with the speed limit. The purpose of traffic tickets is supposedly to encourage the same thing, but in reality is just to provide the government revenue.

I do this ALL THE TIME.

Three 1-second flashes

C. O. P.

/Lots of speeding tickets, lost track after 11.
//I want to say 13?
///Somehow i never lost my license

Weaver95: Around these parts, I watch the truckers. I slow down when they slow down.

My father told me about that trick when he was teaching me to drive eons ago. Thanks to following that advice, I've never gotten a speeding ticket (knocks wood).

/thanks pop!

It just delays the inevitable...you save one anonymous speeding driver from a ticket, but doom the next anonymous speeding driver to a ticket. Plus, it takes the police more time to get the job done, so it reduces his effectiveness and costs taxpayers more.

In the long run, there is no net benefit.

the number of deaths caused by speeding is very high.

How high is it? If you get your number from government or insurance industry press releases, you're passing along a lie.

For example, the federal government requires any accident involving a vehicle at least 10 over the limit to be reported as "speed-related" (which they will then pretend means "caused solely by speed"). The fraction of speed-related accidents is less than the fraction of drivers going 10 over the limit. So drivers going 10+ over the limit are safer than the obedient sheep. And that's exactly what you expect if you compare how speed limits are supposed to be set with how they are actually set -- the law provides no useful guidance to anybody and turns the safest drivers into lawbreakers while glorifying granny cruising 45 miles per hour in the left lane because she's afraid of traffic merging from onramps.

strutin: If you find a law is unjust, you can't just go ahead and break it. You have to work within the system the change the law - if enough people feel as you do, the law will eventually be changed. It may take a good many years, but think of the satisfaction you get knowing you changed an unjust law..

So, you can't just break whichever laws don't suit you. Work to change them.

Ghandi and Dr. King would disagree with you. So would our Founding Fathers for that matter.

"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

So we established early on that 'we the people' have not only the right but the DUTY to fight unjust laws by any and all means necessary.

I think too many of us have forgotten that fact.

Unfortunately, the flashing of highbeams isn't a universal sign of warning. That is, in California.

I tried warn someone that there was a dog in the road, but he seemed to assume that it was an insult to his driving skills, and merrily saluted me with one finger as we passed by.

My fiance tells me that doing that in the wrong neighbourhood will get you shot.

/I hope he didn't run over the dog, though.

7of7: Why would you do that? Would you tell a drug dealer that there was an undercover officer making the rounds?

Yes. The fact that drugs have been demonized doesn't make them evil. Humans have been self-medicating themselves ostensibly forever. Screw you mr. puritan.

I flash whenever I see a cop sitting by the road, and I'd do it whether or not it was illegal. Since I thought it was probably illegal I've been breaking the law in my mind since I got my license.

I've pretty much stopped using my headlights to warn other drivers, not for any self-righteous reason like, ahem, a couple of the above, but rather because I've come to hate the other drivers on the road as much as the cops. I take a sadistic joy in predicting which one will get pulled over and get a pragmatic sense of well being, knowing it ain't me.

strutin: If you find a law is unjust, you can't just go ahead and break it. You have to work within the system the change the law - if enough people feel as you do, the law will eventually be changed. It may take a good many years, but think of the satisfaction you get knowing you changed an unjust law..

So, you can't just break whichever laws don't suit you. Work to change them.

Thoreau, Gandhi, and King are rolling in their graves.

Rob

Unfortunately, the flashing of highbeams isn't a universal sign of warning. That is, in California.

When I started driving around Boston I was surprised to find flashing headlights being used to signal oncoming traffic "you may turn left in front of me." Speed trap warnings are rare around here.

strutin: If you find a law is unjust, you can't just go ahead and break it.

Au contraire.

Flashing highbeams, making a hand signal, or doing anything that is not "normal operation of a motor vehicle" to warn other drivers that there is a police officer ahead IS SPECIFICALLY ILLEGAL IN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY.

i've done this many times and have had this done to me. it's appreciated but it still doesn't make up for all the birds i've flipped.

7of7, I dont hate anyone, just people like you, do the 'free' world a favor and jump ship.

I would warn a drug dealer,
Id even warn a thief,
maybe even a killer
if it gives you grief