"[Are] a lousy $5 are more important than a human being," asked Antonelli.

Dunno - - [Are] a lousy command of English are required, too?

They told Antonelli proper procedure was not followed and she should have been billed later.

Unless she died. Then the doctor would have to spend a hundred bucks getting 5 bucks from the estate.

Hey look, another thread to turn into a flame war about socialized healthcare.

Too bad America thinks that "socialized" healthcare is possible under the current insurance system. It would be like contracting out Fire and Police protection to Fire and Police insurance agencies, who then contact local private Police and Fire departments. The insurance agency and the local departments then get into monetary quibbles while the incident in question rages on.

Bored Horde: Hey look, another thread to turn into a flame war about socialized healthcare.



And some of my stupid Canadian country men will think a two year wait for joint surgery is okay. Socialized health care does not work when the government will not fund the system

Came here to say...she was at the Doctor's office, the $5 wasn't for the Ambulance, but for the Dr. Visit...
So yes she should have had to pay...
/We pay ours as we leave and therefore allow the Dr's office to Doctor, and not look for delinquent accounts

The entire generation of people under 30 years old have no sense and no sensibility.

This reminds me of the power company receptionist who told a pensioner that he would just have to pay the $100,000 bill, or be taken to court.

No sense and no common sense. Thank the good Lord I won't have to share the planet with them much longer.

"And they were born just like common beasts, made only to be caught and destroyed."

Also, carry a cyanide tablet with you in case you find yourself on Staten Island again.

OK, please nobody bite me - but - what if instead of a socialized medical delivery system, the insurance industry was socialized (or mixed)? A system where, say, Medicare was made available to everyone but people who could afford it would still have the option of opting out and obtain a private plan instead and employers would still offer private group plans to their employees as part of an incentive package.

I know I haven't thought my brilliant plan through, but just had to throw it out there...

Medicine is a free market failure. Kind of like the army or the police would be.

To summarize: Not very competent office worker asked for the co-pay. She didn't hold the woman in the office until she was paid.

Most important sentence in article: "She says the bosses are at fault." Which translated means that she will be suing the doctors office because the inadequately trained office worker delayed her transport to the ER by asking for the co-pay thus making the situation worse. About $100,000 in pain and suffering worse.

The wife had to make a number of ER visits at the beginning of the year due to complications with her diabeetus and the flu... she was in a VERY poor condition at the time, in the middle of a very bad bout with ketoacidosis, and this girl comes skipping over to her bed in the ER and asks for her co-payment. After she was done with us, she goes over to the next bed, where this guy was brought in for heart failure, and asks him for his co-payment.

Every time she walked by, looking for new faces, we made vulture sounds.. I don't know what a vulture sounds like, so we assumed they sound like crows.

Oh, and Bored Horde, ask all your Canadian friends how many of them come south to get their medical care... our system isn't perfect, but then at least you don't have to wait a year to get the board removed from your eye (provided you can pay to get it done).

So this isn't about lice?

Inbredpoet: Came here to say...she was at the Doctor's office, the $5 wasn't for the Ambulance, but for the Dr. Visit...
So yes she should have had to pay...
/We pay ours as we leave and therefore allow the Dr's office to Doctor, and not look for delinquent accounts

FTA..."They told Antonelli proper procedure was not followed and she should have been billed later."


The woman was showing signs of an impending heart attack. Getting her to the hospital promptly is more important that collecting the doctor's office $5 co-pay. The receptionist was new & apparently hadn't been trained in proper office procedures in situations like this. If the patient had died because of a delay in treatment, the doctor's office could be sued. Hopefully the doctor's office has given the receptionist some lessons in how to handle such situations in the future.

*DEEP SNIFF*

Ahhh! don't you just luv the smell of Corporatism gone mad in the morning news articles?! ;-P NOT!

Business interests > Public interests

and sadly will get geometrically worse unfortunately until everyday Americans stand up and say "enough IS enough" and take their government to task and account for why Corporations have their tenticles of power, influence and control over the detailed depths of government in much the same was as lobbists do, but even more so!

I wouldn't be surprised they will eventually put additional added on tolls to the larger toll for the water you cross over and the stairs you use to get to and fro Staten Island or deeper into the island with accessing the Statue of Liberty itself or using it's utilities like the toilet to the drinking fountains!

P.T. Barnum was right. :-P

I want my two dollars!

You can't blame greed based health care on socialism. What a stretch. We have lack of care in America. Many people don't just wait but they NEVER get care. Try waiting forever.

I've been in the E.R. while doctors are actively working on one of my sons when was in serious danger. The ambulance drivers hadn't made it out the door before someone came to get my license and co pay. It wouldn't kill anyone to wait till the blood stopped spirting. Damn!

At least with socialized medicine people get equal treatment and illness doesn't bankrupt you. If you want extra insurance above your socialized medicine your snotty ass can purchase it. You can always turn it down too. Nooooooo, you'd rather have 45 millions Americans live without care so you can go to the head of the line.

I hate you people so much.

Sorry re-read the article and it's not a toll but a co-payment which essentially is one and the same. Instead of the government or business asking for it, it's from the other greedy element of society - doctors and pharmacies i.e. the arm of medicine.

A slight boo boo but still deals with the same thing. Some Corporatist's hand in YOUR pocket digging too deeply for what they think they are worth, compared to what is the limits of claiming for a service to the nith degree that you thing they are out of touch with reality and the worth of their service or product.

Fibber McLiarson: OK, please nobody bite me - but - what if instead of a socialized medical delivery system, the insurance industry was socialized (or mixed)? A system where, say, Medicare was made available to everyone but people who could afford it would still have the option of opting out and obtain a private plan instead and employers would still offer private group plans to their employees as part of an incentive package.

It's called the last resort problem. Insurance companies know who costs them money to cover and who makes them money. What they will do (working with employers) is obvious. They will offer a plan that the unlikely to get sick will pick. Low cost, high deductible, HSAs, and only works at a narrow swath of doctors (sure you have a cardiologist... just that the only one your plan covers is in Mississippi). They will not offer a plan that appeals to the likely-to-be-sick (someone old, someone like my mom who lost a kidney to cancer 11 years age). They will go to Medicare.

It's called "privatize the profits, socialize the costs". Real common game. Same story with school vouchers if the private school doesn't have to accept Johnny Behavior Disorder, or can kick him out more freely than the public school, the public school becomes the school of last resort.

Sorry, but fail.

Bored Horde: Too bad America thinks that "socialized" healthcare is possible under the current insurance system. It would be like contracting out Fire and Police protection to Fire and Police insurance agencies, who then contact local private Police and Fire departments. The insurance agency and the local departments then get into monetary quibbles while the incident in question rages on.

no, actually it would be like putting voluntary firemen or paid-by-the-state firemen and policemen. don't you have those over there? and what about "socialized" education?
why education and security but not health/medicine?

Get Lost: And some of my stupid Canadian country men will think a two year wait for joint surgery is okay. Socialized health care does not work when the government will not fund the system

really? the time of the surgery is because it's free? couldn't it be because the doctor they chose is booked?
I'm a MD, know doctors from around the world, and the main reason a surgery has that much of a wait is never the kind of public health system the country has, rather how efficiently they apply it or particular case by case situations.

Lawnchair: It's called the last resort problem. Insurance companies know who costs them money to cover and who makes them money. What they will do (working with employers) is obvious. They will offer a plan that the unlikely to get sick will pick. Low cost, high deductible, HSAs, and only works at a narrow swath of doctors (sure you have a cardiologist... just that the only one your plan covers is in Mississippi). They will not offer a plan that appeals to the likely-to-be-sick (someone old, someone like my mom who lost a kidney to cancer 11 years age). They will go to Medicare.

It's called "privatize the profits, socialize the costs". Real common game. Same story with school vouchers if the private school doesn't have to accept Johnny Behavior Disorder, or can kick him out more freely than the public school, the public school becomes the school of last resort.

Sorry, but fail.

Excellent points - very valid - thank you.

This made me think of Mrs. Cushing (Frances Sternhagen) in "The Hospital", pestering obviously sick patients in the ER for their insurance information.

The health care industry in this country is simply a huge FAILURE.

Health care IS the duty of the government. I do not understand why the wellbeing of the citizens is not seen as public domain.

A country need 3 basic things to flourish:
-Free Education, even Post-grad
-Free Markets
-Free Health care

Europe knows this, most European countries have these. It is not to say you can't have a private sector in any of those fields.
If you want to pay $10,000 for a check up, that's your choice, but we should have universal care.

"[Are] a lousy $5 are more important than a human being," asked Antonelli

Depends on the human being imo.

Let me elaborate...

Human worth scale:
------------------------------------

Hitler (ZOMGODWINWTFPWND): -/+ $0.01

This old Broad: -/+ $0.87 (Oldness decreases worth, except when awesome.)

Another old broad... with a samurai sword covered in the blood of a Yeti: -/+ $2.46

The lead singer of "Go West" (That guy rocks, screw you guys, he made male pattern baldness fashionable): -/+ $3.02

Loch Ness Monstah: -/+ $3.50

The guy who made this (new window): -/+ $5.00

Me: +/+ ½ $∞

My wife needed life-saving surgery last week after they found a brain tumor. Surgery was set, the tests were done, and the hospital billing office called me 6 hours before the operation was to start to tell me they had to have $776 (their estimate of my copay) right now as a deposit or they'd cancel the surgery. I didn't have $776 on me at the time, and was 25 miles away from my bank -- offered them half up front, and that seemed to be OK with them. The tumor is out, the swelling is down and the insurance company has already paid them over $30k and I've already gotten the bill for the remaining $400. I wonder if they really would have let her die....

WildMonkey: The health care industry in this country is simply a huge FAILURE.

Health care IS the duty of the government.

No it is not. It is the duty of the patient to lead as healthy a life as possible and engage with his or her physician as an informed patient to communicate truthfully and completely so that the best possible care can be delivered.

If you want the government managing your healthcare you can expect them to manage your lifestyle too.
Fries with that, nope.
Want a smoke, sorry no.
Risky sex with hookers, nope sorry.

Want to be an adult, manage your own life and not suck at the public teat for non-catastrophic healthcare needs. Enjoy your freedom to do so.

I have an indemnity policy and a $5K annual deductible. My healthcare insurance costs are less than six hundred dollars a year and I've never hit $2500 much less 5K. All of my medical costs have come out of my pocket for the last several years because I chose to structure it that way. If I get hit by a bus then I'm covered. If I get a cold I pay for an office visit. I manage my healthcare like I manage my other expenses. I don't have insurance to paint my house, or change the oil in my car why should insurance or the government pay for my flu shot or sprained ankle?

Will someone PLEASE think of the Yuman Bee-ins?!?

Kaiser Bill's Batman: My wife needed life-saving surgery last week after they found a brain tumor. Surgery was set, the tests were done, and the hospital billing office called me 6 hours before the operation was to start to tell me they had to have $776 (their estimate of my copay) right now as a deposit or they'd cancel the surgery. I didn't have $776 on me at the time, and was 25 miles away from my bank -- offered them half up front, and that seemed to be OK with them. The tumor is out, the swelling is down and the insurance company has already paid them over $30k and I've already gotten the bill for the remaining $400. I wonder if they really would have let her die....

Jesus Christ dude... You and your wife have my best wishes and karma points whenever needed. Good luck. :)

Kaiser Bill's Batman: My wife needed life-saving surgery last week after they found a brain tumor. Surgery was set, the tests were done, and the hospital billing office called me 6 hours before the operation was to start to tell me they had to have $776 (their estimate of my copay) right now as a deposit or they'd cancel the surgery. I didn't have $776 on me at the time, and was 25 miles away from my bank -- offered them half up front, and that seemed to be OK with them. The tumor is out, the swelling is down and the insurance company has already paid them over $30k and I've already gotten the bill for the remaining $400. I wonder if they really would have let her die....

I don't believe you. A billing clerk cannot cancel a scheduled surgery. Only the physician can, and you and I both know that the physician did not cancel the procedure because an insured patient did not pay an estimated co-pay of $776,

What insurance has a co-pay of $776? If you are on an 80/20 plan or out of network it is certainly not enough, and if you are in network it is a hundred bucks at most for an inpatient admisssion.


That said I'm glad your wife is doing well.

/not so much that I don't believe you, but I don't believe that is true. I think the clerk explained it wrong or screwed up. I'm sure if my wife had a tumor I'd not really pay much attention to the ramblings of some clerk. You don't have to put up with that crap. If anyone ever gives you nonsense like that again ask for the director of nursing. They are the ones that really run the place. A nurse on your side is your best asset.

/Still an RN

Doc Batarang: Medicine is a free market failure. Kind of like the army or the police would be.

Wait . . . you're saying medicine has been tried in a free market somewhere?!? I was previously unaware of this. When an where did this happen?

I'l glady pay a finner to keep from waiting around for 6 hours!

feckingmorons:

I think you're full of shiat to be honest. Not sure how you can claim to be a nurse yet be so retarded as to not understand how covered versus noncovered items are appled to a deductible. I'm pretty shocked you'd be stupid enough to call something like that when anyone who has ever seen a detailed hospital bill knows exactly how a $776 co-pay can be generated (oh, let's say, physician, anesthesia, theater were covered 100%, but medication/fluids/blood, and materials were applied to the patients deductible). The fact that you think a DoN runs a hospital further calls into question your credentials. Have you sat in on a board meeting? A M+M conference? The administrator runs a hospital, social services help with finances when a patient can't pay, DON's determine nursing coverage, risk management, attend board meetings, and implement policies and procedures dealing with the nursing staff and insure their nursing staff are in compliance with the nurse practice act of their state. If a patient is dissatisfied with their treatment they can speak with a house supervisor or unit manager. There are also patient advocates whose job it is to deal with patient complaints. All of these indivuals can deal with patient problems with immediacy that an effective DON cannot. I manage a CCU in an urban hospital, so I'm getting a real kick out of your bad advice.

/Still a RN, with a MSN, and works in a Hospital.

I'm a nurse who frisks unwilling patients for their co-pays, so I'm getting a kick out these replies.

Getting Sassy: I LOVED that movie.

I don't know, I hope 'whoever' talks about socialized health care has at least scene 'Sicko'. Even if 50% is true, it still seems like a good thing. And for anyone who denies a major problem with health care, I sure hope you never have an accident. My second month out of college in 2000, I came down with a spontanious numothorax (collapsed lung). Typically happens to tall skinny white guys, and usually genetic. No one in my family had ever heard of it. I got it while jogging and popped my lung.

As it turns out, I had whats called 'blebs' on my lungs (similar to when you blow a bubble, and it pops when the weak part gives out). Long story short, my lung wouldn't re-inflate and I had to have surgery to staple the blebs shut. Cost about 50k, almost all covered by insurance. I had one days noticed saying I needed freaking lung surgery. I freaked, my parents freaked and bought the first tickets out to Seattle (from the other side of the country at a very high cost), and overall it was not fun. I fly several times weekly, and have been on planes that lost cabin pressure - neer really sure if my other lung will give out, since they (insurance) wasn't willing to xray that side for additional blebs, so as far as I know my other side could collapse. I wouldn't die, I would just run out of breath when I started walking. Cheapskapes.

2 years later I got sued for not paying a $100 co-pay, because I moved to a different part of the city. All my mail was forwarded, but apparently when being served a notice for a court case, they don't forward those. I didn't find out until i checked my credit, and that stupid co-pay for 100 (which I would gladly pay if I knew about it) was now 500, which i subsequently paid. But when you have multiple xrays, medications, treatments, etc, each seperate thing typically bills your insurance from different places, similar to subcontracts it seems. Makes it very difficult to know if you owe anything after a major 50k surgery.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I have a good friend from Denmark. His Aunt needed an emergency hip replacement, and she died because due to socialized health care, since even though she needed an emergency procedure, she could not get the surgery in time and basically was told to take a number.

Health care sucks, and I simply don't know a solution for it. I like many of Ron Pauls ideas, but he is against socialized health care, and hes an MD. I think it sounds like a good idea, but insurance companies make too much money in America for that to ever happen. I am sure there are other reasons why socialized health care is not a good idea, I just cant think of a single one. The number one cause of bankruptcy is a major health care. And for event. All I can say is, thank someone I had health care.

This reminds me of what happened to me back in April...

My kidney became infected due to a blockage by a stone. I needed an emergency surgery and was quoted $10k for a STONT just to DRAIN the infection! They wanted at least a $700 down payment (as I'm doubled over in pain in their consultation room, kidney about to rupture) or they wouldn't touch me. Pretty impossible considering I'm a single mom of two kids without health insurance.

I pretty much told them where THEY needed a damn stint and (luckily) eased the infection down with antibiotics. That gave me time to get some emergency Medicade for a lithotripsy.

/fark the insurance companies that drive these prices up
//and fark these cheap-@ss companies that refuse to provide health care options for their employees

What is needed is an uninsured folks collective to bargain the hospital prices down to what insurance companies and PPOs pay. Like a Future Patients of America Grange. Help me here we the power of Fark can provide a better acronym. This movement has started but is scattered and non-influential at present.

Docs have been busted for not collecting co-pays or advertising they will eliminate your co-pay.

Damed if you do, damed if you don't.

feckingmorons: WildMonkey: The health care industry in this country is simply a huge FAILURE.

Health care IS the duty of the government.

No it is not. It is the duty of the patient to lead as healthy a life as possible and engage with his or her physician as an informed patient to communicate truthfully and completely so that the best possible care can be delivered.

If you want the government managing your healthcare you can expect them to manage your lifestyle too.
Fries with that, nope.
Want a smoke, sorry no.
Risky sex with hookers, nope sorry.

Want to be an adult, manage your own life and not suck at the public teat for non-catastrophic healthcare needs. Enjoy your freedom to do so.

I have an indemnity policy and a $5K annual deductible. My healthcare insurance costs are less than six hundred dollars a year and I've never hit $2500 much less 5K. All of my medical costs have come out of my pocket for the last several years because I chose to structure it that way. If I get hit by a bus then I'm covered. If I get a cold I pay for an office visit. I manage my healthcare like I manage my other expenses. I don't have insurance to paint my house, or change the oil in my car why should insurance or the government pay for my flu shot or sprained ankle?

That is freaking retarded...I'm pretty sure that most of the world (because most do have some sort of free medical service) passes a bill to approve x person's surgery or writes legislation to manage one's specific medical needs.

Privatization is not the problem, it's the insurance industry. You want private hospitals, no one is stopping you, but we also need public ones without the need for insurance. Insurance is just a huge scam, if it worked most would have it, and no claims would be denied. You pay, you get treated. But guess what? It's not even close to that.

I live in Staten Island so I am getting a kick out of...

/I hate the place
//Staten Island is NOT part of NY, not in the technical sense
///I have never seen so many rascist assholes with violent, homophobe issues

Get Lost: Bored Horde: Hey look, another thread to turn into a flame war about socialized healthcare.

And some of my stupid Canadian country men will think a two year wait for joint surgery is okay. Socialized health care does will not work when because it is NOT the government's will not fund the system job.

/retired medical professional
//Americans, avoid Billary at any cost

FTA - "Luckily I had a $5 bill, and I gave it to her,"

So what is the complaint?

You know, this kind of thing wouldn't happen twice if they just follow my plan of hanging assholes who pull this kind of shiat. They're obviously a danger in the community, and you can't fire anyone in NYC anymore, so what can you do? Hang, burn, repeat. Eventually, jobs for all and the average IQ pops up fifty points.

WildMonkey: The health care industry in this country is simply a huge FAILURE.

Health care IS the duty of the government. I do not understand why the wellbeing of the citizens is not seen as public domain.

A country need 3 basic things to flourish:
-Free Education, even Post-grad
-Free Markets
-Free Health care

Europe knows this, most European countries have these. It is not to say you can't have a private sector in any of those fields.
If you want to pay $10,000 for a check up, that's your choice, but we should have universal care.

Well, I need FOOD to survive too. C'mon, Gov't. Feed me forever!

anyway

When I read the article, I half expected to see AMR mentioned somewhere. ;-)

"[Is] a lousy $5 more important than a human being?" Antonelli wondered.

Libertarians say "YES"!

The invisible hand will ensure great health care for all. Well, all who can afford it, and if you can't, you're just worthless scum who deserves to die anyway.

DarthBrooks
"[Are] a lousy $5 are more important than a human being," asked Antonelli.

Dunno - - [Are] a lousy command of English are required, too?

Hey dumbass, $5 (five dollars) is plural. You fail at grammar nazism.

How does this garbage "news" ever make into a newspaper???

macker
"I have a good friend from Denmark. His Aunt needed an emergency hip replacement, and she died because due to socialized health care, since even though she needed an emergency procedure, she could not get the surgery in time and basically was told to take a number."

This is the most ridiculous I have heard i a long time, there is no such thing as a emergency hip replacement. You might be in pain, but waiting a couple of month won't kill you.

buckler: "[Is] a lousy $5 more important than a human being?" Antonelli wondered.

Libertarians say "YES"!

The invisible hand will ensure great health care for all. Well, all who can afford it, and if you can't, you're just worthless scum who deserves to die anyway.

Well look at it from a cost benefit perspective... she's 73, likely retired hence no money going into the system, but certainly she is yanking money out for Social Security, and Healthcare, medicare maybe. So in essence, she is a drain on the economy now, and 5 dollars does more for the government than her staying alive.

Anyone who would argue that she is still paying taxes on stuff, odds are over 99% she is more of a drain than a benefit to the economy.

Also, if you want health care, get a job with it, or buy it yourself, how farking hard is that? Your jobs or employer sucks, find a better one.

Quantumbunny: buckler: "[Is] a lousy $5 more important than a human being?" Antonelli wondered.

Libertarians say "YES"!

The invisible hand will ensure great health care for all. Well, all who can afford it, and if you can't, you're just worthless scum who deserves to die anyway.

Well look at it from a cost benefit perspective... she's 73, likely retired hence no money going into the system, but certainly she is yanking money out for Social Security, and Healthcare, medicare maybe. So in essence, she is a drain on the economy now, and 5 dollars does more for the government than her staying alive.

Anyone who would argue that she is still paying taxes on stuff, odds are over 99% she is more of a drain than a benefit to the economy.

Also, if you want health care, get a job with it, or buy it yourself, how farking hard is that? Your jobs or employer sucks, find a better one.

People like you frighten me.

buckler: People like you frighten me.

Just for clarity... I honestly believe what I said about health care. Socialized medicine is not right for the economy. Break back into the positive for our national debt and get 4 or 5 other things like education and the political process fixed, THEN we can worry about whether or not making 5.50 an hour at McDonalds entitles you to free healthcare.

As for the "cost-benefit analysis" I don't subscribe to that theory. I just wanted to point out that logic is there, since no one had actually said it yet. Even then, I purposely left out the past amount of money she had put into the system from the equation to make it more poignant and heartless.

Quantumbunny: Socialized medicine is not right for the economy.

Holy jeez... like paying twice to three times as much on health care as any other first world country is? 15% of our GDP goes to health care. Other countries 6-8%. This makes us uncompetitive in the world market. A freeking dead weight that tips the balance time and time again between "make it here" and "make it somewhere else". If private medicine had held the line on price, we could talk about its predatory evil versus the cost savings. Since there was never any cost savings, you've lost.

The problem with the "you're not valuable enough to deserve health care" (besides the other ones) is that the cost of health care is determinant on the individual. Me... I can buy my own health care for about $40 a month. My mom, 61 and lost a kidney to cancer a decade ago? I don't care if she has four college degrees, she's too costly to insure.