Subby is an idiot. The fuel and electricity Gaza receives is not "free", israel gets to collect Palestinian taxes on goods producted in that region and hold it as payment... do you really think israel would give anything for free?? You must be watching too much Foxnews...

There's a weasel who stole that headline

Toallpointswest: Subby is an idiot. The fuel and electricity Gaza receives is not "free", israel gets to collect Palestinian taxes on goods producted in that region and hold it as payment... do you really think israel would give anything for free?? You must be watching too much Foxnews...

Israel doesn't charge for the electricity (Palestinians are not able to foot the bill) and the fuel comes from the EU

It isn't like Hamas ever had the best interests of Palistinians on their agenda anyways.

clancifer: It isn't like Hamas ever had the best interests of Palistinians on their agenda anyways.

It's kinda sad. No, in fact, VERY sad that the IDF cares more about the safety of your average Palestinian civilian than your average terrorist does

See: firing missiles from civilian homes without the owner's agreement
See: sending children to get their rocket launchers back and exposing them to missile strikes from Israel
See: Stealing fuel from hospitals and closing down bakeries to create a food crisis

etc...

some day, in the very near future...many people are going to stop and think..."why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

-and they will slowly shake their heads and ask god for forgiveness.

all is, as god wills it...however, man has the freewill to be the catalyst of his own demise.

i pray for the oppressed and the injured and the miserable.

i find it hard to believe that this type of human condition exists in this day and age.

-israel has been a boil on the region since its conception.

what a bunch of sick farks.

people need to wake up and see 'israel' for what it truly is.

with the global media in their pockets...that rarely report on such things...it doesn't surprise me that many americans know nothing about this bullshiat.

how very sad indeed.

FTA: Yousef furthermore stated that Hamas has already generated plans and proposals to unite economically with Egypt instead of Israel. According to Hamas, Egypt can serve as 'Gaza's gateway' to the Arab and Muslim world and as its in-depth strategic partner.

LOL on that plan. Unless Hamas has been doing some secret negotiations with Egypt and Mubarak, that plan won't work because it will be totally unilateral. Egypt wants nothing to do with the Palestinians, and especially does not want to be their main economic partner. Responsibility is what all the Arab countries are looking to dish out to others when it comes to the Palestinians.

Bauer: "why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

This is actually easy to answer -- thank the British.

Either way, looking back to past wrongs won't help solve the situation in the future. In fact, it will actually exacerbate the problem. Focusing on "blaming" anyone for Israel's existence will just cause those who follow the perverted strain on militant Islam that Hamas follows to continue the cycle of violence.

Israel isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be pushed into the sea or eliminated, at least not without a fight. The Arabs should realize this after getting their asses handed to them on three separate occasions.

Perhaps if they were truly wise, they would realize that they must accept Israel's existence and learn to work together so that their children can grow up in peace and not in the hell-like environment that they had to endure in their lives.

"Israel isn't going anywhere. It's not going to be pushed into the sea or eliminated, at least not without a fight. The Arabs should realize this after getting their asses handed to them on three separate occasions."

i totally agree.

-i just want them to live together without all of this damn misery.

all of the farking time.

it is farking 2008 for cryin out loud.

evidently...there needs to be more oversight of the whole situation...from a totally unbiased viewpoint.

-that will be the tricky part.

"Perhaps if they were truly wise, they would realize that they must accept Israel's existence and learn to work together so that their children can grow up in peace and not in the hell-like environment that they had to endure in their lives."

you'd think.

after you remove all of the insults from both sides...it must boil down to each cultures resective "faith" farking the shiat up.

again and again.

we will continue to 'ethnic cleanse' our brothers...or not.

-isots

i'm sick of this shiat

I'd like to disengage too. No money, no aid, no diplomatic initiatives. Just a note on the map that reads: "Don't go there."

Tatsuma: clancifer: It isn't like Hamas ever had the best interests of Palistinians on their agenda anyways.

It's kinda sad. No, in fact, VERY sad that the IDF cares more about the safety of your average Palestinian civilian than your average terrorist does

In fact Israel cares so much about Gazans that they turned the whole strip into a concentration camp.

BTW, Hamas isn't a "terrorist group." At least not in the same way that al-Qaeda is. They're engaged in a national struggle, and yes they haved employed violence to achieve certain objectives. But so what? Has anything done by Hamas even come close to the level of death and destruction that Bush has unleashed in Iraq? That's not to excuse all of their actions, but let's have a little perspective here.

Bauer: some day, in the very near future...many people are going to stop and think..."why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

-and they will slowly shake their heads and ask god for forgiveness.

all is, as god wills it...however, man has the freewill to be the catalyst of his own demise.

i pray for the oppressed and the injured and the miserable.

i find it hard to believe that this type of human condition exists in this day and age.

-israel has been a boil on the region since its conception.

what a bunch of sick farks.

people need to wake up and see 'israel' for what it truly is.

with the global media in their pockets...that rarely report on such things...it doesn't surprise me that many americans know nothing about this bullshiat.

how very sad indeed.

Yes it is.

I think this is a great idea. Let's see if Gazans can actually become responsible for their own lives and not depend on/blame Israel for everything.

\I wouldn't hold my breath

LargeCanine: I'd like to disengage too. No money, no aid, no diplomatic initiatives. Just a note on the map that reads: "Don't go there."

I would be thrilled at the prospect of being "cared for" by the IDF, about as much as being "liberated" by the US Army. yay for that glorious day.

tatsuma you talk as much shiat as the Likudnik cabal in bush's inner circle, your lot have been exposed.

random_thoughts: I think this is a great idea. Let's see if Gazans can actually become responsible for their own lives and not depend on/blame Israel for everything.

It would help if Israel didn't bomb them with attack choppers every chance they get.

Or let them have control over the water supply that is on their land.

And stopped supporting a bunch of illegal settlements via military, political and economic support.

And stopped treating all Palestinians like they're sub-human and need to be caged (which tends to lead to some rather unsavoury acts in response, especially when combined with the above).

Here's 1 tiny example of how the IDF/Israel "cares" for them nasty little rodent Palestinians:
Israel allots 85% of the water resources in the occupied territories for Jewish Israelis and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 500 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians.

Stay classy Israel.

LargeCanine: I'd like to disengage too. No money, no aid, no diplomatic initiatives. Just a note on the map that reads: "Don't go there."

Agreed. NOTHING will ever resolve the situation there. They are fighting over whose imaginary sky wizard has the biggest penis.

/Neither. They are farking IMAGINARY!
//Know religion, NO peace. No religion, KNOW peace.

Murkanen: random_thoughts: I think this is a great idea. Let's see if Gazans can actually become responsible for their own lives and not depend on/blame Israel for everything.

It would help if Israel didn't bomb them with attack choppers every chance they get.

Or let them have control over the water supply that is on their land.

And stopped supporting a bunch of illegal settlements via military, political and economic support.

And stopped treating all Palestinians like they're sub-human and need to be caged (which tends to lead to some rather unsavoury acts in response, especially when combined with the above).

Full disengagement is what Israel wants to do. That's why they built the wall.

If Gazans wouldn't launch rockets against Israel, they would just be ignored. But they can't handle that. They would just be another poor 3rd world country, but with big bad Israel they get all world's attention. They require Israel at this point to define themselves.

glaurunge: In fact Israel cares so much about Gazans that they turned the whole strip into a concentration camp.

BTW, Hamas isn't a "terrorist group." At least not in the same way that al-Qaeda is. They're engaged in a national struggle, and yes they haved employed violence to achieve certain objectives. But so what? Has anything done by Hamas even come close to the level of death and destruction that Bush has unleashed in Iraq? That's not to excuse all of their actions, but let's have a little perspective here.

There is attacking the IDF and then there is bombing civilians. Hamas is not purely a terrorist organization but the militant arm of the organization is using terrorist tactics.
Bush and Iraq has nothing to do with it, this has been going on long before he was born and sadly after he is out of office.
Your perspective is a bit ascued.

ReaverZ: glaurunge: In fact Israel cares so much about Gazans that they turned the whole strip into a concentration camp.

BTW, Hamas isn't a "terrorist group." At least not in the same way that al-Qaeda is. They're engaged in a national struggle, and yes they haved employed violence to achieve certain objectives. But so what? Has anything done by Hamas even come close to the level of death and destruction that Bush has unleashed in Iraq? That's not to excuse all of their actions, but let's have a little perspective here.

There is attacking the IDF and then there is bombing civilians. Hamas is not purely a terrorist organization but the militant arm of the organization is using terrorist tactics.
Bush and Iraq has nothing to do with it, this has been going on long before he was born and sadly after he is out of office.
Your perspective is a bit ascued.

Then if we're going to accuse Hamas of terrorist attacks then in the name of fairness and consistency we're going to have to accuse Israel of terrorist actions for turning Gaza into a concentration camp.

Oh and BTW. Hamas didn't exist before Bush. He was born around 1945 right? Well that's long before Hamas ever came into existence.

Why is it that everyone in that area of the world seems to turn every raw deal into the worlds biggest clusterfark?

some day, in the very near future...many people are going to stop and think..."why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

I'd like to say that some day, in the near future, people who get so incensed by a situation might make a cursory attempt to actually understand that situation. The Jews are a semitic people. The 'Palestinians' are also a semitic people. There has never been a Palestinian state, so this idea that the Israelis cleaved some Palestinian paradise in half is misinformed. In the first half of the 20th century, many Jews purchased most of the land that is now Israel from the Syrian landowners who had previously leased it to Arab tenant farmers. So rich Syrians had as much to do with pushing them off their lands as the Jewish immigrants. As the Jewish population increased, tensions increased as well, eventually erupting into violence. Eventually, the British bugged out, and the Jews prevailed in the ensuing power struggle. The notion of a Palestinian people has only developed over the last 50 or 60 years. The West Bank was initially administered by Jordan, and Gaza was administered by Egypt. Gaza is small, poor, and densely populated. If that's your definition of a concentration camp, then it's been a concentration camp since before the creation of Israel, so your blame is misplaced.

people need to wake up and see 'israel' for what it truly is.

A state trying to defend its people from attack on all sides? Some of us already see it that way. The Jews aren't the 'bad guys' and the Palestinians aren't the 'good guys'. Conversely, the Jews aren't the 'good guys' either. The way you try to reduce the world to black and white, I think you and Bush would get along great. Kindred spirits.

with the global media in their pockets...that rarely report on such things...it doesn't surprise me that many americans know nothing about this bullshiat.

So, it all comes back to the Jew run media, huh? I bet they're using the financial system to tank our economy in retaliation for the NIE report on Iran. It all makes so much sense...

Funny how your perceptions change when you actually know a thing or two about the history, rather than trying to demonize one side or the other, huh?

clancifer
It isn't like Hamas ever had the best interests of Palistinians on their agenda anyways.

This. But how sad that we don't spend as much time and sweat supporting those who DO as we do condemning those who don't...

Devil Slide Wolf: Here's 1 tiny example of how the IDF/Israel "cares" for them nasty little rodent Palestinians:
Israel allots 85% of the water resources in the occupied territories for Jewish Israelis and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 500 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians.

Stay classy Israel.

yeah, ever look at the other side? you can start here

Link (new window)

014789: Devil Slide Wolf: Here's 1 tiny example of how the IDF/Israel "cares" for them nasty little rodent Palestinians:
Israel allots 85% of the water resources in the occupied territories for Jewish Israelis and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 500 settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians.

Stay classy Israel.

yeah, ever look at the other side? you can start here

Link (new window)

Yes, collective punishment is a very enlightened position.

Having fighter jets fly at low altitude past Mach 1 to scare the bajeezus out of livestock and children is just air-force hijinx.

Roads that are built on Palestinian land which Palestinians have no access to are hilarious.

Bulldozing orchards which take decades to develop? A good solid belly laugh.

Israel would have a much better appearance on the world stage if it wasn't always claiming victimization while openly wrestling in the mud.

Hamas leads the Gaza strip because the majority of residents living there support them.

They support them because they believe that time is on their side. Specifically, that by combining a strategy of 'victory of the cradle' and taking advantage of European appeasement-for-oil, over the long term they will be able to destroy Israel. Every single poll ever taken among Palestinians has shown that a substantial majority do not want peace with Israel - they want to destroy it.

Oh, and Bauer, I'm sorry. It will be a long time before you can get the same kind of reputation as a total asswipe leftwing kook that Afternoon Delight has as a right wing one. Nice try though.

Bored Horde: Israel would have a much better appearance on the world stage if it wasn't always claiming victimization while openly wrestling in the mud.

thats true for every "victim class" in the worlde, but what other "victim" is chastised as much as israel. i just want some balance thats all

Traborn: some day, in the very near future...many people are going to stop and think..."why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

I'd like to say that some day, in the near future, people who get so incensed by a situation might make a cursory attempt to actually understand that situation. The Jews are a semitic people. The 'Palestinians' are also a semitic people. There has never been a Palestinian state, so this idea that the Israelis cleaved some Palestinian paradise in half is misinformed. In the first half of the 20th century, many Jews purchased most of the land that is now Israel from the Syrian landowners who had previously leased it to Arab tenant farmers. So rich Syrians had as much to do with pushing them off their lands as the Jewish immigrants. As the Jewish population increased, tensions increased as well, eventually erupting into violence. Eventually, the British bugged out, and the Jews prevailed in the ensuing power struggle. The notion of a Palestinian people has only developed over the last 50 or 60 years. The West Bank was initially administered by Jordan, and Gaza was administered by Egypt. Gaza is small, poor, and densely populated. If that's your definition of a concentration camp, then it's been a concentration camp since before the creation of Israel, so your blame is misplaced.

people need to wake up and see 'israel' for what it truly is.

A state trying to defend its people from attack on all sides? Some of us already see it that way. The Jews aren't the 'bad guys' and the Palestinians aren't the 'good guys'. Conversely, the Jews aren't the 'good guys' either. The way you try to reduce the world to black and white, I think you and Bush would get along great. Kindred spirits.

with the global media in their pockets...that rarely report on such things...it doesn't surprise me that many americans know nothing about this bullshiat.

So, it all comes back to the Jew run media, huh? I bet they're using the financial system to tank our economy in retaliation for the NIE report on Iran. It all makes so much sense...

Funny how your perceptions change when you actually know a thing or two about the history, rather than trying to demonize one side or the other, huh?

This.

There was no independent "Palestinian State" until after Israel was created and it became politically expedient for the rest of the Arab world to create one out of whole cloth.

"Palestine" was claimed by Syria and owned by whoever was in power outside the region at the time. The distinct Arab clans who happened to be living there never considered themselves a nation beyond tribal and religious affiliation and most occupied the land at the discretion of absentee landlords who also didn't consider themselves "Palestinian".

Happening to live in family groups at a survival level on a particular piece of dirt does not a coherent nation with any sort of identity make.

glaurunge: BTW, Hamas isn't a "terrorist group." At least not in the same way that al-Qaeda is. They're engaged in a national struggle, and yes they haved employed violence to achieve certain objectives. But so what?

I think someone needs to go and read Hamas' stated goal.
They are terrorists by definition.

And i think this is a great idea, let the egyptians take care of them. After all, Gaza used to be part of Egypt.
However the egyptians are not stupid, they are building a barrier right now that (they believe) will completely stop palestinians from crossing the borders.

Bauer: some day, in the very near future...many people are going to stop and think..."why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

The Jews got their homeland, the Europeans got those pesky Jews out of their countries, and the Arabs got something to blame for everything wrong with their corrupt countries. I don't see the problem, it looks like everybody wins.

glaurunge: RThen if we're going to accuse Hamas of terrorist attacks then in the name of fairness and consistency we're going to have to accuse Israel of terrorist actions for turning Gaza into a concentration camp.

Oh and BTW. Hamas didn't exist before Bush. He was born around 1945 right? Well that's long before Hamas ever came into existence.

I am not talking about Israel, I a talking about you thinking Hamas is not a terrorist organization and trying to down play its share of violence. You can't criticize one while down playing the other when trying to make a perspective argument.
As the who came first, I was talking about Arab/Palestinian vs. Israeli conflict, not about Hamas.

Traborn: some day, in the very near future...many people are going to stop and think..."why is there an israeli "nation" located in the very heart of palestinian lands, in the first place?"

I'd like to say that some day, in the near future, people who get so incensed by a situation might make a cursory attempt to actually understand that situation. The Jews are a semitic people. The 'Palestinians' are also a semitic people. There has never been a Palestinian state, so this idea that the Israelis cleaved some Palestinian paradise in half is misinformed. In the first half of the 20th century, many Jews purchased most of the land that is now Israel from the Syrian landowners who had previously leased it to Arab tenant farmers. So rich Syrians had as much to do with pushing them off their lands as the Jewish immigrants. As the Jewish population increased, tensions increased as well, eventually erupting into violence. Eventually, the British bugged out, and the Jews prevailed in the ensuing power struggle. The notion of a Palestinian people has only developed over the last 50 or 60 years. The West Bank was initially administered by Jordan, and Gaza was administered by Egypt. Gaza is small, poor, and densely populated. If that's your definition of a concentration camp, then it's been a concentration camp since before the creation of Israel, so your blame is misplaced.

people need to wake up and see 'israel' for what it truly is.

A state trying to defend its people from attack on all sides? Some of us already see it that way. The Jews aren't the 'bad guys' and the Palestinians aren't the 'good guys'. Conversely, the Jews aren't the 'good guys' either. The way you try to reduce the world to black and white, I think you and Bush would get along great. Kindred spirits.

with the global media in their pockets...that rarely report on such things...it doesn't surprise me that many americans know nothing about this bullshiat.

So, it all comes back to the Jew run media, huh? I bet they're using the financial system to tank our economy in retaliation for the NIE report on Iran. It all makes so much sense...

Funny how your perceptions change when you actually know a thing or two about the history, rather than trying to demonize one side or the other, huh?

This

Israel has as much right, if not more, to exist as a nation than Palestine. Those that don't understand history should stop jumping to conclusions. You look as bad as the neocons when you do this.

This is great. Israeli's are very happy about this, i know that much.

Why aren't you guys? One step towards independence would be alleviating yourself of the total dependance you've formed on the same nation you bomb. Good move. ALthough it would have been smarter to do that before you started bombing, but hey, better late then never.

glaurunge

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/26/wgaza126.xml

Farker Soze
The Jews got their homeland, the Europeans got those pesky Jews out of their countries, and the Arabs got something to blame for everything wrong with their corrupt countries. I don't see the problem, it looks like everybody wins.


Indeed.

Then if we're going to accuse Hamas of terrorist attacks then in the name of fairness and consistency we're going to have to accuse Israel of terrorist actions for turning Gaza into a concentration camp.

do you know what a concentration camp is?
do you know what terrorism? Terrorism isn't accidentally killing someone innocent because the target was operating out of a civilian area. Terrorism is the intentional targeting of noncombatants in order to achieve a politial goal. You don't punish negligent homicide as harshly as you punish premeditated homicide. There's a reason for that. Intent matters.

Slamguy: Terrorism is the intentional targeting of noncombatants in order to achieve a politial goal.

...such as an assassination.

As harsh as it sounds, I'd take a suicide bomber detonating himself to kill a handful of people over a fighter jet levelling half a neighbourhood for the sake of killing one person.

At least with the suicide bomber the Israelis have the chance to stop him before he goes off, the Palestinians have no defense against fighter jets.

014789: but what other "victim" is chastised as much as israel.

When Israel stops claiming it is the victim while doing the equivalent of taking a baseball bat to the face of a guy tied to a chair, then we'll talk about balance.

I hate both sides of this conflict because neither one wants to act the grown up. However, when one side is stealing land, resources, and generally antagonizing the other party with its military power, it is very hard to find sympathy for them when they are given the occasional bloody nose in response.

Recall all Repuglikkkans

The fact that the Palestinian people are willing to strap bombs on themselves and volunteer to go away the Israeli should tell you that they are the ones who are in the right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_wave_attack#Korean_War

The fact that the north koreans were willing to line up and charge machine guns for their glorious leader kim il-sung should tell you that they were the ones who are in the right. I would be more sympathetic of the UN if they were to really put themselves at risk one of these days.



The fact that the japanese are willing to load a plane full of bombs and fly themselves into american boats should tell you that they are the ones who are in the right. I would be more sympathetic of the americans if they were to really put themselves at risk one of these days.

You're argument. It's very flimsy. It screams "university student" to me. There are better ways to argue the point you seem to be attempting to argue then that. Since when does ineptitude and poverty have any bearing on morality? The north koreans would like a word with you. You're argument acts like there is no such thing as fanatical devotion to a destructive cause.

Make them citizens or end the occupation.