Lawrence, MA's answer to the mortgage crisis.

I came in here to say something about Lawrence but shirtsbyeric beat me to it. =P

I, too, was unfamiliar with the term "Jewish lightning" until recently. :P

People are stupid. Just find a bunch of street kids, and tell them the home is abandoned, and that they can use it as a squat, on condition that when they leave, it looks "lived in", and it's on fire.

They'll trash the place, then in about a week, give them a free big bottle of vodka. Once they drink it, they'll have no inhibitions about burning the place down.

the burning of Old Saint George (pops)

Decommissioned Catholic church. I married two couples there. Beautiful place. Local college wanted the land for a parking lot. Not sellable in previous condition. Now? ... we'll see.

/sniff
//just happened yesterday

The fires are burning bright here in Hoboken!

whammer: People are stupid. Just find a bunch of street kids, and tell them the home is abandoned, and that they can use it as a squat, on condition that when they leave, it looks "lived in", and it's on fire.

They'll trash the place, then in about a week, give them a free big bottle of vodka. Once they drink it, they'll have no inhibitions about burning the place down.

i recognize all the words, but none of that made sense to me

BIGstan
Whoa. I just came here to mention Old George. And that picture's eerily similar to one I took from my apartment last night. Get outta my head!

I think the increase in gas prices might keep the arson down a bit.

BIGstan
I married two couples there.

The "swinger" lifestyle is far more involved than I could have imagined...

Bad economy leads to arson
arson leads to more global warming (heat + emissions)
global warming leads to pressure on businesses to spend money to reduce emissions
that pressure leads to companies firing people
firing people leads to bad economy
bad economy leads to arson

whammer: People are stupid. Just find a bunch of street kids, and tell them the home is abandoned, and that they can use it as a squat, on condition that when they leave, it looks "lived in", and it's on fire.

They'll trash the place, then in about a week, give them a free big bottle of vodka. Once they drink it, they'll have no inhibitions about burning the place down.



your cunning plan is neither simple, nor all that foolproof. You really think it's a great plan to be involved in a conspiracy with a bunch of homeless punks ? kids that get high and drunk all the time, and are in police custody every other month ? and you will even buy them their booze ?

yeah. I agree, people are stupid.

Folks if you are going to burn down your house never use an accelerant. No gasoline, kerosene, or their like that is the number one tip off to arson. Also do not remove pictures, keepsakes, or any expensive appliances. Don't up your insurance days or even months before and never talk about it with your best friend.

I'd wait till spring, start a home improvement project, and purchase a new pet. In Spring you can be expected to have the windows open. With a home improvement project you can expect their to be a mess, and if you pick the right one lots of sawdust. Also letting a cat or puppy get burned up and pretending to be all upset about is a great way to sell the whole "It was an accident thing."

Here's a thought... instead of burning the place down, why not just let these people out of their mortgages (most of whom should not have bought in the first place), and go away with no penalties other than a credit score -200 points... then take the houses and give them to people who meet certain income, credit and other factors? You know, like those of us who have busted our asses to save up the 20% down only to have prices double and triple over the past 6-7 years?

Stipulate that they must live in the house for at least 10 years, with a 5-year moratorium on HELOC's unless the money is used to make repairs to the house... not on a car, boat, vacation or furniture... only the house and the land it sits on.

BTW, the people foreclosed on would not be eligible to get one of these houses until they have cleared their credit.

No more vacant houses, crime decreases, property taxes get paid, people have homes instead of apartments, neighborhoods stabilize... (almost) everybody's happy.

tenpoundsofcheese
Bad economy leads to arson
arson leads to more global warming (heat + emissions)
global warming leads to pressure on businesses to spend money to reduce emissions
that pressure leads to companies firing people
firing people leads to bad economy
bad economy leads to arson

"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the juice of Saphu that thoughts acquire speed,
that lips acquire stains,
the stains become a warning.
It is by will alone I set my mind in motion".

/off to drink some Saphu

Cat With Two Heads: BIGstan
Whoa. I just came here to mention Old George. And that picture's eerily similar to one I took from my apartment last night. Get outta my head!

I can't take credit for the pic - came from cincinnati.com / enquirer news area. Decent pics there, tho.

Wonder if this is gonna cause it to lose it's hysterical historical status, and make it parkinglot-able...

/used to hang out at Cooters / Vertigo down the street.
//now a parking lot, from what i've heard.
///i think i just dated myself.
/my lawn, etc.

rewind2846: Here's a thought... instead of burning the place down, why not just let these people out of their mortgages (most of whom should not have bought in the first place), and go away with no penalties other than a credit score -200 points...

I think people are doing this for "If I can't have it, the damned bank ain't going to have it either." So I don't know if they would really care about a credit score.

Polyhazard: BIGstan
I married two couples there.

The "swinger" lifestyle is far more involved than I could have imagined...

I was the minister. Ordained, and all that. Have the collar to prove it.

Just leave the gas on the oven on, with lots and lots of cookbooks nearby. Put dead batteries in all your smoke detectors too. Then go shopping at the mall

/problem solved

That just goes to show you.
You should always get fire insurance...
You'll never know when someone will start "ares'n around".

Excellent...I should be getting back into business now!

I believe that this thread will deliver!

What is often perfectly legal is jingle mail - the mortgage is secured by the house so if the market price is less than what is owed you just put the keys in an envelop and mail them to the mortgage holder to cancel the debt. (this may affect your credit score because you made a bank lose money).

Arson is for the greedy who want to make money on losing their house.

Merltech
I think people are doing this for "If I can't have it, the damned bank ain't going to have it either." So I don't know if they would really care about a credit score.

That's just it though... so many of these 'financial wizards' bought with no money down because they couldn't afford to put 20% away... if you can't do that you have no business buying the house. If they didn't put anything on the line in the first place, why get pissed when they have to give it up? It wasn't theirs to begin with... the bank has owned it from the beginning. They were just renting, whether they knew it or not.

BIGstan: the burning of Old Saint George (pops)

Decommissioned Catholic church. I married two couples there. Beautiful place. Local college wanted the land for a parking lot. Not sellable in previous condition. Now? ... we'll see.

/sniff
//just happened yesterday

College. Parking. Lot.

BIGstan
I was the minister.

I figured, but I still like my version better.

BIGstan: I can't take credit for the pic - came from cincinnati.com / enquirer news area. Decent pics there, tho.

Wonder if this is gonna cause it to lose it's hysterical historical status, and make it parkinglot-able...

/used to hang out at Cooters / Vertigo down the street.
//now a parking lot, from what i've heard.
///i think i just dated myself.
/my lawn, etc.

The university is probably going to get the city to seize the property and destroy the church. But no one will build anything on the land, making a beautiful place into just another eye sore on Calhoun Street. The same thing happened to the nightclub across the street from St. George.
/I hate my school

Here's a thought... instead of burning the place down, why not just let these people out of their mortgages (most of whom should not have bought in the first place), and go away with no penalties other than a credit score -200 points...

People screw up and expect that they can get bailed out of it with a -200 point slap on the risk?? That makes no sense at all.

rewind2846: Merltech

If they didn't put anything on the line in the first place, why get pissed when they have to give it up? .

Because they are entitled to it.
Because the mean ol' big business man is taking it away.
Because someone took advantage of their stupidity.

rewind2846: Here's a thought... instead of burning the place down, why not just let these people out of their mortgages (most of whom should not have bought in the first place), and go away with no penalties other than a credit score -200 points...

It's so cute that you imagine these are intelligent, educated people acting rationally.

In 2004 in the UK taxi drivers were burning out their cars when new laws were introduced, stating their cab had to be less than 3 years old. The insurance premiums went up accordingly putting many of the drivers out of business.

/People have similar reactions to similar situations

If gouda is good, chedda is bedda.

Around here, the smoke-blowing building community has way overbuilt on rental units. They promised that 5% population growth would keep happening. Ha, ha, half the town commutes thirty miles plus, so our growth as a bedroom community is dead at $3 gas. But, a lot of people saw some TV show or went to a get-rich-quick seminar and decided to get into the small-time slumlording biz. Now, the people who got into slumlording on leverage (renting out homes that they were paying interest-only on) are getting raped. Like any underwater homeowner, but times 10 or 20 properties. The slumlords who owned their properties, or built slowly on normal loan terms can rent their property at not much more than maintenance and taxes, so the subprime landlords are squealing bad. Several suspicious rental fires this year.

Chariset
It's so cute that you imagine these are intelligent, educated people acting rationally.

Yeah, well I tend to try and believe the best in humanity...

then I read FARK...

/when is the meteor coming?

tenpoundsofcheese

People screw up and expect that they can get bailed out of it with a -200 point slap on the risk?? That makes no sense at all.

I'm sure we could come up with even more punishments... thumbscrews, the rack, flogging, bamboo splinters under the nails, waterboarding (ask the current pres. admin about that for some tips)... -200 points is just the start.

And it's a better alternative than having these asstards burn the place down, putting the lives of firefighters' and their former neighbors at risk, and wasting thousands if not millions of our tax dollars and jacking up the premiums of responsible homeowners...

Galen_Rasputin: Folks if you are going to burn down your house never use an accelerant. No gasoline, kerosene, or their like that is the number one tip off to arson. Also do not remove pictures, keepsakes, or any expensive appliances. Don't up your insurance days or even months before and never talk about it with your best friend.

I'd wait till spring, start a home improvement project, and purchase a new pet. In Spring you can be expected to have the windows open. With a home improvement project you can expect their to be a mess, and if you pick the right one lots of sawdust. Also letting a cat or puppy get burned up and pretending to be all upset about is a great way to sell the whole "It was an accident thing."

I think that you spend a little too much time thinking about this sort of thing.

/narrowly escaped foreclosure
//thought about it too
///was thinking natural gas leak

HairBolus: What is often perfectly legal is jingle mail - the mortgage is secured by the house so if the market price is less than what is owed you just put the keys in an envelop and mail them to the mortgage holder to cancel the debt. (this may affect your credit score because you made a bank lose money).

Arson is for the greedy who want to make money on losing their house.

Can't they just rent it out? Or turn around and sell it to get a place they could actually afford? Hell, I would think of trying about 12 things before arson seemed like an option to remotely consider.rewind2846: I'm sure we could come up with even more punishments... thumbscrews, the rack, flogging, bamboo splinters under the nails, waterboarding (ask the current pres. admin about that for some tips)... -200 points is just the start.

And it's a better alternative than having these asstards burn the place down, putting the lives of firefighters' and their former neighbors at risk, and wasting thousands if not millions of our tax dollars and jacking up the premiums of responsible homeowners...

I kinda like just kicking them out of the house with no place to go should be enough (and the -700 pts to credit score, screw 200, these idiots deserve more than a mild inconvenience). Teach themthe life lesson of living within your means once and for all.

My personal suggestions for arson:

#1 - If you must use an accelerant, use only alcohol (ethanol, methanol). Arson investigation units for fire departments and insurance companies have arson sniffing dogs that can detect the slightest use of petroleum based accelerants, but alcohol leaves no odor or trace for detection.
#2 - Use a small quantity of accelerant to start a fire so that you know it will catch, but don't go overboard. Fires that just burn out of control in short order or start in multiple locations are prime suspect for arsons.
#3 - Plan ahead. Plan a month or so in advance for a short out-of-town trip for the family, like a 3-day-weekend vacation. This way, you have a plausible reason for no one being in the house when it catches.
#4 - Start your fire in the middle of the night, so there are no neighbors awake to call the fire department until the fire has spread to a large size.
#5 - Salvage your irreplaceable belongings from the house (photos, family jewelry, etc), and store these somewhere extremely safe. I recommend a rented storage unit that NO ONE knows about. Keep these things there for a long while, until the heat blows over from the fire. A better idea would be to transfer ALL of your photos to digital storage using a good scanner, and save the digital backup in a safe deposit box at the bank. Or simply saving the negatives in an alternate safe location - both of these storage ideas are acceptably recognized practices for people who want their photos to be safe from disasters like this. You can always get reprints of the photos that you want to put up in your new house.

That's all I can come up with now. I'm sure there is more to arson, but this should get you started if you're smart enough to think a cunning plan through.

BIGstan: I married two couples there.


That's illegal, isn't it?

Ah. I see Polyhazard got there first. Nevermind.

Quantumbunny: Can't they just rent it out? Or turn around and sell it to get a place they could actually afford? Hell, I would think of trying about 12 things before arson seemed like an option to remotely consider.

The places that get torched are not just a person missing a few mortgage payments. They are usually upside down.

you can't rent out for enough to cover rent and taxes, so this doesn't work

If you are upside down (house is worth less than the current outstanding note) then you need to come up with the cash difference, if the loan holder even lets you. These people do not have that cash on hand.


so, your first two ideas are out. What where your next ten ?


you rapidly end up with crummier options, against which arson starts to sound rational. It's not, because you will always get caught these days.

me fail english ?

but, but, but the economy has only hit a rough patch. the fundamentals are sound!

Quantumbunny

Can't they just rent it out? Or turn around and sell it to get a place they could actually afford?

Problem with this is these asstards don't want to sell it for what they can get, as the market dictates, but for what they think they are entitled to. Thais is why real estate prices in some areas of the country, while creeping downward, are not doing so in sync with market forces...

Plus there's the fact that some of these people actually HELOC'd their zero-down houses, essentially taking money out of the house that they put no money into, and refuse to see that they gambled and lost.

Thais => That's

BIGstan: the burning of Old Saint George (pops)

Decommissioned Catholic church. I married two couples there. Beautiful place. Local college wanted the land for a parking lot. Not sellable in previous condition. Now? ... we'll see.

/sniff
//just happened yesterday

polygamy? ok, whatever suits you, but wouldn't give you four mothers in law? ouch!

dbaggins: Geez, do I have to spell out the entire cunning plan? That might be incriminating evidence some day, even though I am not now, nor have I ever even considered such a thing.

Have a day.

rewind2846:
Here's a thought... instead of burning the place down, why not just let these people out of their mortgages (most of whom should not have bought in the first place), and go away with no penalties other than a credit score -200 points... then take the houses and give them to people who meet certain income, credit and other factors? You know, like those of us who have busted our asses to save up the 20% down only to have prices double and triple over the past 6-7 years?

The banks that set up the loans in the first place let them skate away with nothing more than a slap on the wrist? It's nice to think about but banks and mortgage companies wouldn't go for it unless there was a government-backed package to recoup losses. As for your last bit, while unfortunate and sucky, is part of life. Banks had to adjust the 20% down policy because few people could come up with anywhere from $30,000-$50,000 (on the low end) for even an average home. They're taking on more risk and they would like to be compensated for it.

/No fan of banks, whole situation stinks.
//Amlost glad to be renting as weird as it sounds.

If you kill the punk teenagers, tehy won't be able to tell the cops!

mrmopar5287:
#1 - If you must use an accelerant, use only alcohol (ethanol, methanol). Arson investigation units for fire departments and insurance companies have arson sniffing dogs that can detect the slightest use of petroleum based accelerants, but alcohol leaves no odor or trace for detection.

actually, what is the source on this one ? These days they take burn samples to the lab for a gas chromatograph. Will it not show up there either ? You might still be right. It could be that ethanol will not survive in any trace at fire temperature, and all the combustion products are themselves volatile.