The McCain–Feingold Act. Read it. McCain should be put on trial for treason (along with everybody who voted for the act), found guilty, and executed.

The rise of John McCain is caused by Viagra.

ScubaDude1960: The McCain-Feingold Act. Read it. McCain should be put on trial for treason (along with everybody who voted for the act), found guilty, and executed.

Then be a big, burly, manly man and file charges.

I'll wait...

ScubaDude1960: The McCain-Feingold Act. Read it. McCain should be put on trial for treason (along with everybody who voted for the act), found guilty, and executed.

Awww, that is so cute...

ScubaDude1960: The McCain-Feingold Act. Read it. McCain should be put on trial for treason (along with everybody who voted for the act), found guilty, and executed.

Care to explain how that gave aid and comfort to the enemy?

ScubaDude1960

Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

Please explain to me how sponsoring a bill that regulates campaign finances falls into Article III, Section 3 of our constition?

Dumbass

Anybody of the opinion that McCain isn't a NeoCon is sadly mistaken.

ScubaDude1960: The McCain-Feingold Act. Read it. McCain should be put on trial for treason (along with everybody who voted for the act), found guilty, and executed.

Russ Feingold is more patriotic anyone in the Bush White House, as well as any of his republican enablers in congress.

Anybody of the opinion that McCain isn't a NeoCon is sadly mistaken.

THIS

Those pundits have been wrong about nearly everything, deliberately, for a long long time. It's past time for them to go away.

I think Jon Stewart put it best today when he said Obama is the path to the future and McCain is the best of the past. I'm not saying he isn't a warmonger or that he should be president, so that just sort of points out that even the best of the old isn't that great, but he... umm.. you know I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this, actually.

I mean, it's great that he doesn't support torture but he still wants us in Iraq until the rest of us are as old as he is. He can't flesh out any sort of economic policy becuase he admits he doesn't understand economics (not that anybody does, in reality). In 2000 he was willing to say piss off to the nuttier religious guys but he went back to them not long after announcing his candidacy this time around. He's got nothing.

I guess the only thing that makes him the least of several evils on the republican side and a step above Clinton is he's not spectacularly bad in some way. He's not eager to force Christianity on everyone, he's not a stuffed shirt corporate puppet, he's just a warmonger. We're used to that at this point, and at least he'd be more competant than Bush even if senility sets in. It's not GOOD but if Obama doesn't get the nod it'd just be voting for the lesser of two evils like America always ends up doing.

/gObama

Meh, all of these pundits who are detractors of McCain now will suddenly become his supporters if he gets the nomination. It's always been party first, ideology second.

still waiting for scubadude to explain himself.

/madison should have been hanged for giving us the bill of rights, that little bastard...
//ok, the bill of rights was more fundamental, but i'm not sure why restricting the flow of soft money for the purposes of holding freer elections is the kind of thing which constitutes "treason"
///as bush said, it's imperfect, but still an improvement...

No, a man who is for expanding the American empire to every country in the world and wants a permanent presence in Iraq isn't a neocon, no not at all.

I said it when he won FL--look at how much W has aged in 7 years. McCain is already old, so if you gross up his physical age with the additive toll that being President seems to take on a person, he'll be effectively about 485 years old by the time his first term is up.

Just be sure to consider who he chooses for VP, that's all I'm saying.

"John....Try real hard not to get your ass kicked by a Clinton."

themadfive: Anybody of the opinion that McCain isn't a NeoCon is sadly mistaken.

The McCain-Feingold Act kept Newt Gingrich out of the running. Sounds like a win to me.

Meanwhile, Giuliani has leeched himself to the side of McCain... Don't cast off the NeoCons just yet.

Mr. Xhin: As long as they fall, I don't care how.

I prefer they fall onto a sharp sword, and then tumble into a pool of piranhas.

Day of Judgment God is calling / On their knees the war pigs crawling /Begging mercies for their sins / Satan laughing spreads his wings

Fart_Machine: Meh, all of these pundits who are detractors of McCain now will suddenly become his supporters if he gets the nomination. It's always been party first, ideology second.

EPIC FAIL.

Falcc
I think Jon Stewart put it best today when he said...

CATASTROPHIC FAIL.

crawlspace: Fart_Machine: Meh, all of these pundits who are detractors of McCain now will suddenly become his supporters if he gets the nomination. It's always been party first, ideology second.

EPIC FAIL.

Falcc
I think Jon Stewart put it best today when he said...

CATASTROPHIC FAIL.

tiny fail

crawlspace: Fart_Machine: Meh, all of these pundits who are detractors of McCain now will suddenly become his supporters if he gets the nomination. It's always been party first, ideology second.

EPIC FAIL.

Falcc
I think Jon Stewart put it best today when he said...

CATASTROPHIC FAIL.

Yeah, I see that. It was actually whatshername from the WSJ talking to Jon Stewart. What'd the first guy get wrong though?

crawlspace:

EPIC FAIL.

CATASTROPHIC FAIL.

Fail in proper use of fail meme.

Ah, the worm turns.

Y'know, I have a disturbing feeling we will miss the Liberal Bashing Industry, possibly in the same way that we miss the Cold War

.

DistendedPendulusFrenulum: Ah, the worm turns.

Y'know, I have a disturbing feeling we will miss the Liberal Bashing Industry, possibly in the same way that we miss the Cold War

.

That's a lot like missing a case of mono, isn't it?

But now, real voters are reminding them that the party, and the country, are more moderate than they. And that if someone they admire comes along, they'll forgive him some lapses from ultra-conservative Republican orthodoxy.

The author thinks 100 year McCain who will start a war with Iran is moderate? I'll help the author out. The people aren't picking McCain because he is moderate. They are picking him because they think he looks presidential. People are too stupid nowadays to even look at positions. For instance: McCain wins the vote of most anti-war, anti-Bush Republicans. Stupid, brainwashed people.

FTA : "That won't happen to Limbaugh et al.: come what may, they will blather on. But their moment has come and gone. The political ground is shifting under them, and whine as they might, there's nothing they can do about it."

Heh, I recall punditry about how once Reagan was elected, Rush Limbaugh would fade away and be irrelevant - because he'd have nothing to talk about. Exact same kinds of predictions when Clinton made it to the White House. Same again when Bush (2) got in.

This is just about as long running a punditry meme as the one about how Apple Computer is a failure and will have to close it's doors any day now.

As per the idea that only mindless NeoCons (if you mean "Jews" why not just say so, btw?) might not prefer McCain - you don't have to be a "NeoCon" part of the Conservative spectrum to dislike inane and unnecessary restrictions on POLITICAL speech, wide-open borders, or anyone of many McCain stances which are decidedly disconcerting to a classic Conservative.

In fact, McCain's support for continuing keeping our troops in the Middle East matches well with the MAIN make-or-break concern of the "NeoCon". If anything, it's the non-NeoCons who will be put out by a McCain win in the primaries - the opposite of what this guy was saying.

crawlspace: Fart_Machine: Meh, all of these pundits who are detractors of McCain now will suddenly become his supporters if he gets the nomination. It's always been party first, ideology second.

EPIC FAIL. TRUTH.

FTFY.

Falcc
I think Jon Stewart put it best today when he said...

CATASTROPHIC HALF FAIL.

FTFYA

Barack Obama does represent a path to the future and a paradigm shift away from corporately pre-selected candidates working against the long term best interests of the American people.

That part Jon got right.

McCain rather than being "the best of the past" is really a disingenuous shill, willing to say anything to anyone in order to grasp Presidential power. Looks like his 6 1/2 years in the Hanoi Hilton scrambled his brains somewot and he's really looking forward to a do-over in Iraq for the war he had to sit out. Face it... McCain is just too old and too crazy to be considered the best of anything. The Obama thing was right on. Noonan calling Bubba more fulla FAIL than Chimpy?

Okay, ...THAT WAS A CASE OF MONDO EPIC FAIL.

bmasso: Heh, I recall punditry about how once Reagan was elected, Rush Limbaugh would fade away and be irrelevant - because he'd have nothing to talk about. Exact same kinds of predictions when Clinton made it to the White House. Same again when Bush (2) got in.

What the hell are you talking about? Limbaugh wasn't doing talk radio when Reagan was elected, his national show didn't even start until Reagan's last year.

bmasso:
As per the idea that only mindless NeoCons (if you mean "Jews" why not just say so, btw?) might not prefer McCain - you don't have to be a "NeoCon" part of the Conservative spectrum to dislike inane and unnecessary restrictions on POLITICAL speech, wide-open borders, or anyone of many McCain stances which are decidedly disconcerting to a classic Conservative.

In fact, McCain's support for continuing keeping our troops in the Middle East matches well with the MAIN make-or-break concern of the "NeoCon". If anything, it's the non-NeoCons who will be put out by a McCain win in the primaries - the opposite of what this guy was saying.

Well the article never mentions neocons. It only mentions ultraconservatives. Subby is just an imbecile thinking that ultraconservatism directly equals neoconservatism.

McCain falls marginally into the scope of neoconservatism; War hawk, the size of the govt does not bother him, open boarders, and I think he once said "feteralskism???? whut dat?".

bmasso: Heh, I recall punditry about how once Reagan was elected, Rush Limbaugh would fade away and be irrelevant...

No, no you don't.

Either you're too young to know when Limbaugh started up, you're very confused, or you're just talking out of your ass.

Limbaugh didn't start up until around '88.

These past few years have been the beginning of the end for the current form of the American far right, as exemplified by Limbaugh. That doesn't mean the right wing is "beaten" or finished or anything like that, just that their propagandists are gonna have to evolve beyond their current knuckle-dragging, fire-and-brimstone, "liberal"-hating style if they don't want to risk becoming a caricature of, well, themselves even to large portions of their own formerly loyal audiences (though many would say that it's far, far too late for that).

bmasso: In fact, McCain's support for continuing keeping our troops in the Middle East matches well with the MAIN make-or-break concern of the "NeoCon".

That, I mostly agree with. Iraq was about the maintenance and expansion of American strategic dominance. This is how McCain explicitly discusses and sees it. That is Neo-Con through and through.

He enthusiastically endorsed W in 2004, and even campaigned for him.

Unless he clearly and unambiguously states his opposition to Bush's policies, McCain = Bush, period.

Argh2: Unless he clearly and unambiguously states his opposition to Bush's policies, McCain = Bush, period.

I think his domestic economic agenda and stance on cultural issues like immigration, gay rights, and others would be quite different from Bush.

And his stance on campaign finance is what REALLY pisses off the Limbaugh types. Above all, they stand for an institution that believes the wealthy and powerful attained that status through their own virtue and little else. They truly believe that the management and investor classes in this country are superior people who have a superior right to rule and a superior right to representation.

Long-term and true campaign finance reform threatens, more than anything else, to undermine that tradition and ideal. This is why they despise McCain: he has a mean populist streak they worry they won't be able to control.

McCain is a traitor. He swore to protect the Constitution and tried to abridge and prohibit political speech. He needs to be thrown out of office and spend some time in jail.

That said, he's probably a sight better than the rest of the bunch. Ron Paul beats him with his hand tied behind his back of course, but barring a Paul nomination I could live with McCain more than Romney or Huckabee. I don't trust McCain after all his waffling and warmongering, but I don't think he's out to actively fark us over. The rest, Paul aside, can't wait to destroy what's left of our national self-respect.

"...tried to abridge and prohibit political speech..."

So money is free speech therefor some people have more free speech.

vsync: He swore to protect the Constitution and tried to abridge and prohibit political speech.

Show me where in the Constitution it says that material political contributions = speech.

It doesn't.

This was a principle invented by the elites to maintain and expand their power over the rest of us. And, as usual, they've bamboozled a good number of people into supporting it against their own interests.

vsync: McCain is a traitor. He swore to protect the Constitution and tried to abridge and prohibit political speech. He needs to be thrown out of office and spend some time in jail.

That said, he's probably a sight better than the rest of the bunch. Ron Paul beats him with his hand tied behind his back of course, but barring a Paul nomination I could live with McCain more than Romney or Huckabee. I don't trust McCain after all his waffling and warmongering, but I don't think he's out to actively fark us over. The rest, Paul aside, can't wait to destroy what's left of our national self-respect.

By that logic Bush should be in Jail since he has failed to close the borders.

"He enthusiastically endorsed W in 2004, and even campaigned for him.

Unless he clearly and unambiguously states his opposition to Bush's policies, McCain = Bush, period."

QFT.

Prospero424:
I think his domestic economic agenda and stance on cultural issues like immigration, gay rights, and others would be quite different from Bush.

Agreed. I was only referring to his foreign policy, I should have been more specific.

Because I am lazy, I'm going to copy an e-mail that I wrote to some of my relatives earlier today...

The whole "conservatives won't vote for McCain" thing is stupid.

Really, who are they going to vote for instead? Hillary? Obama? I don't think so. They'll complain and they'll threaten to walk during the primary season just like they do every 4 years but when push comes to shove, they're the most loyal part of the Republican base and everyone knows it.

It's why the establishment has started falling in behind McCain, they know that in the event of an Obama nomination, they're in danger of losing the moderates and the left wing of the party to Obama, so if they want any chance of winning, they've got to nominate the guy that the moderate and left wing of the Republican party likes.

And here you see why what I've complained about for years--the religious right allowing themselves to be marginalized by voting Republican no matter what--is coming back to bite the right. If McCain wins the nomination and winds up getting elected, from here on out, nobody's going care what the religious right thinks, they'll know they don't need them to get the nomination.

/I've always identified as religious right, but the right has moved so far I'm in the middle
//Reality is, except for abortion, there's not all that I disagree with Obama
///Same goes for the rest of my conservative Republican family
////We voted for McCain, but if Romney gets it, probably voting for Obama
////Would never vote for Hillary
//Slashies ftw

rynthetyn: Really, who are they going to vote for instead? Hillary? Obama? I don't think so.

Many of them will just stay home who would have voted otherwise.

Some will vote for independent or third-party candidates, but not many.

But if McCain gets the nomination, large portions of the evangelical voting block simply won't come out for him, even if he does make all of the right noises on abortion. They don't see him as a "crusader" for their side, like they were duped into thinking Bush was.

Prospero424: rynthetyn: Really, who are they going to vote for instead? Hillary? Obama? I don't think so.

Many of them will just stay home who would have voted otherwise.

Some will vote for independent or third-party candidates, but not many.

But if McCain gets the nomination, large portions of the evangelical voting block simply won't come out for him, even if he does make all of the right noises on abortion. They don't see him as a "crusader" for their side, like they were duped into thinking Bush was.

They aren't going to stay home. This may be the first time the general population has heard those threats, but having grown up around the religious right, I've heard those threats from the far right, religious or otherwise, every single primary, but it never happens. When push comes to shove, the Democrat is going to scare them so much that they'll vote for whoever the Republicans wind up picking. I heard the same "I'll just stay home" line with Bush Jr. in the primaries, and we all know how that turned out.

Believe me, these are the most politically active members of the Republican party. They aren't staying home.

rynthetyn, what other tent do Evangelicals fit into? Republicans have picked religious voters up for years with lip service.

McCain v Obama would be very interesting.

rynthetyn: They aren't going to stay home. This may be the first time the general population has heard those threats, but having grown up around the religious right, I've heard those threats from the far right, religious or otherwise, every single primary, but it never happens.

I've spent thirty years in Texas, and I can assure you: it does happen. I'm not saying all or even most will stay home, but it'll be a significant percentage considering the last few Presidential races have been separated by single percentage points or less. All it would take is 5-10% of them to give up on McCain in order to make a BIG difference.

"I heard the same "I'll just stay home" line with Bush Jr. in the primaries..."

Really? From whom? I didn't hear than from hardly any dedicated conservative, just a few token Libertarians. He said pretty much everything they wanted to hear, unlike McCain. Half of it ("no nation building", etc.) was lies, but they bought the whole Bush myth hook, line, and sinker. Why? Lots of reasons, and lots of pandering, but I think the fact that he had a southern accent was a big deal. McCain lacks that pathetic requisite.

rynthetyn: Believe me, these are the most politically active members of the Republican party.

Again: not all of them. It may even be a single-digit delta, but I can pretty much guarantee you that a smaller percentage of "very" conservatives and evangelicals will vote for McCain than voted for Bush.

bheilig: rynthetyn, what other tent do Evangelicals fit into? Republicans have picked religious voters up for years with lip service.

McCain v Obama would be very interesting.

They don't fit into any other tent, that's why they're not leaving.

Actually, I do see one scenario where some Evangelicals might leave the Republicans, and that comes if Obama plays his cards right.

To give an example, a couple of days ago, one of my mom's friends e-mailed my mom a link to a new Obama smear story that apparently just popped up (this one involved Kenya, I'm not posting any more on it because I'm not going to continue it), and my mom passed it on to me for my take. I made a few comments on the inaccuracies in the story and pointed out the implicit racism involved, and my mom passed that on to the friend who initially sent the e-mail. The result was a conversation between my mom and her friend about Obama's positions, the conclusion that among those issues they found important, there wasn't all that much that they really disagreed with him on, other than the abortion issue. My mom's friend has been frustrated with the Republican candidates, and while she's very much a religious right, social conservative, one thing that's bothered her about the Republican party is their seeming lack of concern for the poor. To make a long story short, my mom's friend went from forwarding a smear story to at the very least considering Obama as a possibility within the matter of a day or so. Now, who she ends up voting for in the general election is another matter, but the fact that a religious conservative who's fed up with the Republican candidates would even think about Obama as a possibility demonstrates something significant that Obama can capitalize on.

One thing I definitely agree on is that McCain v Obama would be interesting. If nothing else, it would feel like I had a real choice for once.

/If it's Romney v Obama, there's no question who I'm voting for
//Hint: It's not Mitt

Prospero424:
"I heard the same "I'll just stay home" line with Bush Jr. in the primaries..."

Really? From whom? I didn't hear than from hardly any dedicated conservative, just a few token Libertarians. He said pretty much everything they wanted to hear, unlike McCain. Half of it ("no nation building", etc.) was lies, but they bought the whole Bush myth hook, line, and sinker. Why? Lots of reasons, and lots of pandering, but I think the fact that he had a southern accent was a big deal. McCain lacks that pathetic requisite.


The religious right, Dobsonian wing very much said it. They fell in line and forgot about it once the general election rolled around. The fear of Algore was too much.

rynthetyn: The religious right, Dobsonian wing very much said it.

Hmmmm, I just don't remember that. Doesn't mean it's not true, though.

I just remember the Bible-thumpers swooning over his whole "born again alcoholic who loves his wife and prays to Jesus every night" story after they learned that Billy Graham helped "save" him in '85.

That's how it went down here, at least. But Texas was biased, for obvious reasons.

Prospero424: rynthetyn: The religious right, Dobsonian wing very much said it.

Hmmmm, I just don't remember that. Doesn't mean it's not true, though.

I just remember the Bible-thumpers swooning over his whole "born again alcoholic who loves his wife and prays to Jesus every night" story after they learned that Billy Graham helped "save" him in '85.

That's how it went down here, at least. But Texas was biased, for obvious reasons.

Yeah, Texas isn't exactly a representative sample.

By the time of the general election, they'd all fallen in line, but in the primaries, there was a lot of discontent, at least in my right-wing circles.