Ah, the "freedom" to feed your addiction. Truly worth fighting for.

/asshole ex-smoker
//yes, I know

Just so I understand:

Lung cancer = ok
Catching a cold = not ok

?

What if it's a sliding door and it only closes 3/4 of the way? Is that still indoors? I mean, technically it's just crummy workmanship...

*facepalm*

That's a poorly written law. They need to add a section for smoking-specific buildings, which have a 0% return air usage rate, their exhaust air is so many feet away from the air intake of all other buildings, parking garages, etc. Then they just heat those buildings with space heaters or whatever.

I think it would've been easier to ban smoking outdoors & let them stay inside.

They did something like this at my office. They installed a bus stop on the roof of my building (complete with fake Metro rail signage) that has one open door.

Then they banned smoking outside or within 100 feet of any building.

Seems like they spent a lot of money to accommodate the smokers only to spend even more to ban them from the roof.

absoluteparanoia - Seems like they spent a lot of money to accommodate the smokers only to spend even more to ban them from the roof.

Social engineering rarely makes financial sense.

TheCid: Then they just heat those buildings with space heaters or whatever.

I imagine dozens of tiny fires emitting smoke, not to mention body heat, would be a good heating mechanism as well.

I used to fly through Reagan National alot back in the late 90s. My ususal terminal took me past the glass-enclosed smoking room they had. Even as a smoker, I couldn't imagine going in that thing. You probably don't even need to light up.

Also, the fact that when the shelters were "too nice" or heated they'd come in and prohibit patrons from bringing food or drink into them.

It's not about health anymore when they do that (if it ever even was) its about punishing smokers and making smokers lives miserable even in places they're allowed to smoke.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The reason so many Christians did/do hate Jews is that Christians believe that only through Jesus can one get to heaven and Jews are basically "Feh, that's okay, we'll pass."

It irks them to no end that a group of people could dismiss what they believe to be the "Way the truth & the light" or what not.

Non-smokers hatred for smokers is much the same.

It has nothing to do with health (as so many non-smokers are unhealthy in so many other ways) or "smells" (as they never raise a stink about bus exhaust, bonfires, people grilling meat, etc, and only cripe about cigarette smoke - truly a disorder that ought to be in the DSM V, Psychosomatic Pavlovian Olfactory Hypochondria or some such) and has everything to do with the hatred of a group of people who have dismissed what they believe to be the truth.

If somebody got a special "smoking license" for a bar that was smoking only and started booking really cool bands there non-smokers would still pitch a fit that they couldn't go to the bar and would seek to have it shut down.

Non-smokers (who raise a fuss about smoke) are by and large zealots on a quasi-religious crusade who won't rest until everyone else is like them as the fact that some people choose to live differently is an affront to their very belief system.

All this anti-smoking hysteria and hubbub are little more than Jim Crow laws updated for the 21st century.

People have always needed a group of "others" to put down in order to feel superior about themselves and now that casual or institutionally systemic racism & homophobia have become culturally taboo smokers are an easy target.

When the nimrods from the govt come in and take away a place that ONLY smokers go to or utilize (a heated, nice shelter, etc) because it proves my point that it's not about health but about punishing folks for their lifestyle choices.

I hope to shiat that when spring/summer rolls around that any and all bars or restaurants that have outdoor patios and such EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT non-smokers from using them.

They forced smokers outside why should they get to sit outside then when the weather turns nice again?

Oh_Enough_Already: All this anti-smoking hysteria and hubbub are little more than Jim Crow laws updated for the 21st century.

You're farking retarded.

holy shiat Oh_Enough_Already

Oh_Enough_Already

You're right. People that choose to act in such a socially unacceptable manner shouldn't have to suffer ANY social consequences for doing so. It should only be people who choose NOT to act in such a way that should have to endure.

I wonder who has more muscle: the people that want to tax the crap out of smokers to generate revenue or the ones that want to make sure nobody can ever smoke anywhere? I don't see how these two groups of fun loving folks could avoid locking horns eventually.

Oh_Enough_Already: I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The reason so many Christians did/do hate Jews is that Christians believe that only through Jesus can one get to heaven and Jews are basically "Feh, that's okay, we'll pass."

It irks them to no end that a group of people could dismiss what they believe to be the "Way the truth & the light" or what not.

WTF? I think it's time for your smoke break.

aquigley: Oh_Enough_Already: All this anti-smoking hysteria and hubbub are little more than Jim Crow laws updated for the 21st century.

You're farking retarded.

Wow, what a measured and thoughtful response.

Did you just come up with that or have you been saving it for a special ocassion?

Anyway, brushing your innanity aside for a moment while the grownups are talking here is something that actually is retarded, FTFA:

The restaurant had attached an elaborate shelter to its building after Schaumburg's smoking ban. But village officials made the restaurant owners take it down, deciding the shelter should be free-standing and only used for smoking -- not as a semi-enclosed patio.

"They were trying to make little tiny restaurants," with everything from table service to television sets, said Schaumburg Community Development Director Chris Huff. "That's not the intent of smoking shelters."

Although Schaumburg has banned patrons from bringing food or drink into the huts, smokers at least won't freeze.

So, in other words, once smokers had a place of their own that was seperate from the building, and only patronized by smokers, where they could enjoy a cig with some modicum of civility, and generating no complaints from non-smokers . . . . they came and took it away.

Now that's retarded.

Oh_Enough_Already: The reason so many Christians did/do hate Jews is that Christians believe that only through Jesus can one get to heaven and Jews are basically "Feh, that's okay, we'll pass."

It irks them to no end that a group of people could dismiss what they believe to be the "Way the truth & the light" or what not.

Non-smokers hatred for smokers is much the same.

Did you just say that smokers are "The Chosen Ones"?

Oh_Enough_Already, I think you may be onto something...I'm pretty sure that Jesus hates smokers, too.

I'm going to start petitioning the government to enact laws to protect me, you and all of us from loud sounds in public places like bars and concert venues and such. The loud noise is bad for my health, I could be renedered fully or partially deaf after all, and is generally annoying. I mean, I can't even walk past a typical downtown or college bar on a Friday or Saturday night without being subjected to this serious health issue, as it seeps right out on the street. If I live in the neighborhood the sound also has a direct effect on me almost nightly, by keeping me awake.

Sure, you could say that I don't have to enter such establishments if I don't want to hear the loud music, but it is my right as an American to have access to any and all private spaces on my terms at all times.

Oh_Enough_Already: aquigley: You're farking retarded.

Wow, what a measured and thoughtful response.



It was proportional to the post it was responding to.

.....and the winner in Farks Tuesdays Drama Queen of the Day Award is.......(drumroll)



Oh_Enough_Already!

Oh_Enough_Already - I hope to shiat that when spring/summer rolls around that any and all bars or restaurants that have outdoor patios and such EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT non-smokers from using them.

I would if I owned a bar/restaurant. I'd have a big sign above the door leading to the patio that said "SMOKING ONLY".

/non-smoker

BobtheFascist: I would if I owned a bar/restaurant. I'd have a big sign above the door leading to the patio that said "SMOKING ONLY".

What would happen to smokers who finish their cigarette and don't want another for a while. Would you force them to chain smoke?

Oh_Enough_Already: Also, the fact that when the shelters were "too nice" or heated they'd come in and prohibit patrons from bringing food or drink into them.

It's not about health anymore when they do that (if it ever even was) its about punishing smokers and making smokers lives miserable even in places they're allowed to smoke.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

The reason so many Christians did/do hate Jews is that Christians believe that only through Jesus can one get to heaven and Jews are basically "Feh, that's okay, we'll pass."

It irks them to no end that a group of people could dismiss what they believe to be the "Way the truth & the light" or what not.

Non-smokers hatred for smokers is much the same.

It has nothing to do with health (as so many non-smokers are unhealthy in so many other ways) or "smells" (as they never raise a stink about bus exhaust, bonfires, people grilling meat, etc, and only cripe about cigarette smoke - truly a disorder that ought to be in the DSM V, Psychosomatic Pavlovian Olfactory Hypochondria or some such) and has everything to do with the hatred of a group of people who have dismissed what they believe to be the truth.

If somebody got a special "smoking license" for a bar that was smoking only and started booking really cool bands there non-smokers would still pitch a fit that they couldn't go to the bar and would seek to have it shut down.

Non-smokers (who raise a fuss about smoke) are by and large zealots on a quasi-religious crusade who won't rest until everyone else is like them as the fact that some people choose to live differently is an affront to their very belief system.

All this anti-smoking hysteria and hubbub are little more than Jim Crow laws updated for the 21st century.

People have always needed a group of "others" to put down in order to feel superior about themselves and now that casual or institutionally systemic racism & homophobia have become culturally taboo smokers are an easy target.

When the nimrods from the govt come in and take away a place that ONLY smokers go to or utilize (a heated, nice shelter, etc) because it proves my point that it's not about health but about punishing folks for their lifestyle choices.

I hope to shiat that when spring/summer rolls around that any and all bars or restaurants that have outdoor patios and such EXPRESSLY PROHIBIT non-smokers from using them.

They forced smokers outside why should they get to sit outside then when the weather turns nice again?

tl;dr.

Come back when you aren't retarded and when you don't want to rewrite War & Peace.

Oh_Enough_Already: The reason so many Christians did/do hate Jews is that Christians believe that only through Jesus can one get to heaven and Jews are basically "Feh, that's okay, we'll pass."


You know who else liked to smoke Jews?

Seriously, what the hell does that even have to do with anything?

Canadian Canuck: Seriously, what the hell does that even have to do with anything?


To the sane, nothing.

Kome - What would happen to smokers who finish their cigarette and don't want another for a while. Would you force them to chain smoke?

'Course not. But if anyone was complaining that they couldn't go outside to enjoy their meal & the nice weather because smokers were out there, I'd point them to their local legislator to reverse the indoor ban.

Oh_Enough_Already: brushing your innanity aside

and you spelled inanity wrong

Oh_Enough_Already: here is something that actually is retarded

So, a restaurant owner violates the law by building what is essentially a smoking-only restaurant, and it gets closed down and removed.

How is that surprising in any way? He built a smoking section onto his restaurant and thought that nobody would notice?

You may think the law is stupid, but what happened here was not retarded.

palladiate: How is that surprising in any way? He built a smoking section onto his restaurant and thought that nobody would notice?

You may think the law is stupid, but what happened here was not retarded.

He's arguing that people aren't being served in the shelters. No service is being provided. It's an outdoor area. It's like saying that if I want to step outside for a smoke outside a McDonald's that I have to leave my burger inside as a punishment.

absoluteparanoia: He's arguing that people aren't being served in the shelters.


He's also arguing that smokers are like Jews, so you can excuse our confusion.

Oh_Enough_Already: All this anti-smoking hysteria and hubbub are little more than Jim Crow laws updated for the 21st century. People have always needed a group of "others" to put down in order to feel superior about themselves and now that casual or institutionally systemic racism & homophobia have become culturally taboo smokers are an easy target.

I suppose that's an accurate and not at all hysterical analogy, if you assume that racist or homophobic thoughts cause cancer in nearby people.

chimp_ninja: I suppose that's an accurate and not at all hysterical analogy, if you assume that racist or homophobic thoughts cause cancer in nearby people.

Well, I *do* cough up blood when I watch Bill O' Reilly.

Trivia Jockey: He's also arguing that smokers are like Jews, so you can excuse our confusion.

That aside, I he makes a good point. Why can't I bring food with me when I smoke?

Not that I'd want to... but why? More importantly, why can't my beer come with me?

Oh_Enough_Already: So, in other words, once smokers had a place of their own that was seperate from the building, and only patronized by smokers, where they could enjoy a cig with some modicum of civility, and generating no complaints from non-smokers . . . . they came and took it away.

I thought one of the big things for the non smoking in businesses was so the workers wouldn't have to worry about being in a smokey building. If that is the case, building a separate smoking section building that your workers would have to go into would be against the spirit and letter of the law.

Not saying it is right or not, but in your example they aren't exactly trying to punish the smokers. Seems to me they are trying to stop a trend before it gets out of hand.

absoluteparanoia: That aside, I he makes a good point. Why can't I bring food with me when I smoke?

Not that I'd want to... but why? More importantly, why can't my beer come with me?

I don't think they are exactly allowed to ban workers from going into smoking huts so in order to make sure the servers didn't need to go in the hut as part of their job they banned food and drinks.

At least I hope that is the logic for this law.

Diogenes: chimp_ninja: I suppose that's an accurate and not at all hysterical analogy, if you assume that racist or homophobic thoughts cause cancer in nearby people.

Well, I *do* cough up blood when I watch Bill O' Reilly.

I hear if you watch a full episode, your esophagus will leap out of your mouth and try to strangle you.

Oh_Enough_Already may be overly dramatic but he does make a few good points. People need to lighten up on smokers.

/ex-smoker

absoluteparanoia: He's arguing that people aren't being served in the shelters. No service is being provided. It's an outdoor area. It's like saying that if I want to step outside for a smoke outside a McDonald's that I have to leave my burger inside as a punishment.

Umm, the article said they are being served in the smoking shelter. It's an attached patio with tables and service. That's kinda defeating the ban in a really, really illegal way.

The point is to make it inconvenient to smoke. There are arguments for and against the law, but it is currently the law.

palladiate: Umm, the article said they are being served in the smoking shelter. It's an attached patio with tables and service. That's kinda defeating the ban in a really, really illegal way.

Ahh, yes I missed the part about table service.

The point is to make it inconvenient to smoke. There are arguments for and against the law, but it is currently the law.

True. Still a stupid law.

absoluteparanoia: Trivia Jockey: He's also arguing that smokers are like Jews, so you can excuse our confusion.

That aside, I he makes a good point. Why can't I bring food with me when I smoke?

Not that I'd want to... but why? More importantly, why can't my beer come with me?


The beer one's easy...here in Chicago you can't drink alcohol on the public sidewalk or street. In short, you can't drink outside of the actual bar. As for the food, I suspect it's because it would be a de facto "indoor" section of the bar, one that allows smoking...this is illegal.

Not so sure that merely having a door on the smoking shelter in bad weather is such a bad thing, though (as long as it's not actually part of the restaurant).

palladiate:
The point is to make it inconvenient to smoke.

That's what I see is the problem here. The point shouldn't be to make it inconvenient to smoke. That is just punishing smokers for their lifestyle choice. That'd be like not allowing fat people to eat food indoors.

Instead, the point should be to make it so that non-smokers aren't bothered by smoker's smoke. Simple as that.

oxidiser: That'd be like not allowing fat people to eat food indoors.

Your analogy only works if said fatass is so messily engaged in his or her food binge that fragments of fatty's entree are landing in my mouth three tables away.

Trivia Jockey: absoluteparanoia: Trivia Jockey: He's also arguing that smokers are like Jews, so you can excuse our confusion.

That aside, I he makes a good point. Why can't I bring food with me when I smoke?

Not that I'd want to... but why? More importantly, why can't my beer come with me?


The beer one's easy...here in Chicago you can't drink alcohol on the public sidewalk or street. In short, you can't drink outside of the actual bar. As for the food, I suspect it's because it would be a de facto "indoor" section of the bar, one that allows smoking...this is illegal.

Not so sure that merely having a door on the smoking shelter in bad weather is such a bad thing, though (as long as it's not actually part of the restaurant).

Yeah you can. Lot's of bars and restaurants have sidewalk seating areas where you can get a drink and eat.

Trivia Jockey: The beer one's easy...here in Chicago you can't drink alcohol on the public sidewalk or street.

In DC you can drink and smoke as long as the patio is separated by from the street by a symbolic "fence". It can be a fence that you can step over... but it still counts. Can you smoke in Chicago patios?

absoluteparanoia: Trivia Jockey: The beer one's easy...here in Chicago you can't drink alcohol on the public sidewalk or street.

In DC you can drink and smoke as long as the patio is separated by from the street by a symbolic "fence". It can be a fence that you can step over... but it still counts. Can you smoke in Chicago patios?

Only if the part of the patio is 15 feet from an entrance or exit from the bar/restaurant or entryway into any other public place.

aquigley: Your analogy only works if said fatass is so messily engaged in his or her food binge that fragments of fatty's entree are landing in my mouth three tables away.

Well... technically if you can smell something your are ingesting a small part of it.

Think about that next time you go to the bathroom.

absoluteparanoia: Think about that next time you go to the bathroom.

LOLSCAT

absoluteparanoia: True. Still a stupid law.

I somewhat agree. I don't think we should ban it. I think we should raise the hell out of their insurance rates, and shoot them if they get lung cancer. I don't want to pay for your stupid decision.

Also, I believe they should have their own smoking-only restaurants that 90% of people wouldn't want to patronize. I'd also be ok for public showers to dowse the smell off of them randomly throughout the day.

palladiate: Also, I believe they should have their own smoking-only restaurants that 90% of people wouldn't want to patronize. I'd also be ok for public showers to dowse the smell off of them randomly throughout the day.

They already did... before the law.

You went into a restaurant that allowed smoking knowing that they allowed smoking. Then you didn't get upset when someone smoked. Everyone wins!