Deprogrammed? This guy could've been an alcoholic or drug addict and be saying the same thing about going clean.

Honestly, I completely understand why Apple uses a closed hardware platform. The shiat just works because it's all controlled. I'm a PC guy but there have been times where I've wanted to throw all my hardware out of the window because things didn't work. You buy Apple because it works, not because it's a huge difference or you want to stick it to Microsoft. That's just damn stupid.

HeadbangerSmurf: You buy Apple because it works, not because it's a huge difference or you want to stick it to Microsoft.

Exactly.

HeadbangerSmurf: Deprogrammed? This guy could've been an alcoholic or drug addict and be saying the same thing about going clean.

Honestly, I completely understand why Apple uses a closed hardware platform. The shiat just works because it's all controlled. I'm a PC guy but there have been times where I've wanted to throw all my hardware out of the window because things didn't work. You buy Apple because it works, not because it's a huge difference or you want to stick it to Microsoft. That's just damn stupid.

It's incredibly nice to be able to call / go to one company for everything. You walk into the Apple store, and they won't say "oh. it's the OS. the hardware is fine. it's not our problem." like Dell will when you call them -- "oh, it's the OS. reformat and reinstall, then call back." There's something to be said about dealing with one vendor for both the OS and hardware.

I guess I don't see much of a problem with the closed hardware platform because Apple is usually a step ahead of the PC vendors technology wise. The battery thing is a little annoying, but I have yet to see a problem with it, since I usually end up destroying my iPod/phone/etc in less than a year, anyway, from dropping it, dunking it, or doing something completely stupid that would destroy any electronic device. :)

Anyway, I'm not really an Apple fanboy anymore. Leopard cured that. Now I just say "OS X sucks less than Windows." :)

I don't understand the zealotry at all on either side of the Mac/PC psychosis. They're machines, they do what you tell them to do within certain tolerances, and neither is deserving of the mindless bigotry that swirls around them.

Deprogrammed from a major corporate power.

Congrats to the weak minded fool.

/Dilbert would be proud

HeadbangerSmurf: The shiat just works because it's all controlled.

xtex: I guess I don't see much of a problem with the closed hardware platform because Apple is usually a step ahead of the PC vendors technology wise.

Hehe, keep drinkin' the Kool Aid.

xtex: Anyway, I'm not really an Apple fanboy anymore. Leopard cured that. Now I just say "OS X sucks less than Windows." :)

I haven't gotten Leopard yet. What don't you like about it?

Molavian: Hehe, keep drinkin' the Kool Aid.

And it begins...

Molavian - What Kool Aid? I build computer networks for a living and deal with both platforms. I've supported both platforms for upwards of 15 years now. 98% of my work is on the PC side (I have an employee that handles our Apple stuff) so you can't call me biased toward Apple. The only bias I have is on the PC side of things. All of the Apple equipment we've sold has been fantastic. Yes, there have been some gotchas but they've had to do with applications that weren't exactly mainstream for the client base we have (Parallels for one and I'm not saying it's not a popular application, just that very few of our Mac using clients are using it). Otherwise the Apple hardware we sell works beautifully. Of course, because we're an HP shop I can say the same about their desktops and servers. If you stay within their realm of control (SmartStart for the servers for instance) the shiat is going to work no matter what.

PCs have come a long way since I first got into this business. I have fewer and fewer issues with hardware and drivers, but I still have them. I don't have those issues with Apple. Period.

They have a decent platform, they just cost too much.

Unless you are in the publishing biz they are simply not worth the cost.

mr_bunny: They have a decent platform, they just cost too much.

Unless you are in the publishing biz they are simply not worth the cost.

Linux Sysadmin here. Completely disagree with you. Yeah, they cost quite a bit more. Too much though? Not for me. If you were a good enough web sleuth, you might be able to find previous postings from me years ago bashing Mac. But I finally gave up my Windows fanboy stance and switched to Linux. This led me to Mac when I wanted a NIX laptop that just worked. I couldn't get wifi to work in Linux worth a crap. I'd get it working, go to bed, wake up, and then not be able to connect all over again. A few days of this and I bought my first powerbook. I've never looked back.

I do like the tight hardware control personally. And the few times I've had to call Apple for help have made me realize why it was worth it to pay more than I would have on a Dell.

You know who else tightly controls their hardware that you can run on? HP-UX and AIX. Of course, Linux is certainly taking over the workload from both those platforms in my company.

Ten years ago was when it was stupid to be an Apple fanboi, because at that time their hardware was overpriced, there OS did suck compared to the alternatives (Linux, even uh, Windows) and the company was barreling toward destruction.

These days it's the time to not necessarily be a "fanboi", because blind zealotry for anything isn't good, but at least realize that they do now have a quality product that isn't horrendously more expensive than the competition, have control over hardware/software with its advantages, lets you do all your UNIX tricks out of the box but if you don't care about that doesn't require you to be a 20 year sysadmin if that's your deal. The company is doing very well, and they're diversifying into media, which might force the *IAA's to quit their bullshiat.

Plus they're pretty. That's not a sarcastic comment either, I've since found that having something you have to stare at all day is easier when it's pretty.

Most haters are basing their hate on the very era that this guy claims he 'deprogrammed' himself from.

cambie: mr_bunny: They have a decent platform, they just cost too much.

Unless you are in the publishing biz they are simply not worth the cost.

Linux Sysadmin here. Completely disagree with you. Yeah, they cost quite a bit more. Too much though? Not for me. If you were a good enough web sleuth, you might be able to find previous postings from me years ago bashing Mac. But I finally gave up my Windows fanboy stance and switched to Linux. This led me to Mac when I wanted a NIX laptop that just worked. I couldn't get wifi to work in Linux worth a crap. I'd get it working, go to bed, wake up, and then not be able to connect all over again. A few days of this and I bought my first powerbook. I've never looked back.

I do like the tight hardware control personally. And the few times I've had to call Apple for help have made me realize why it was worth it to pay more than I would have on a Dell.

You know who else tightly controls their hardware that you can run on? HP-UX and AIX. Of course, Linux is certainly taking over the workload from both those platforms in my company.

Look, to say that Apple hasn't overcharged vs the horsepower of their rigs over the years is laughable.

They have.

Having said that, they did a great job locking in a niche market with a modified Linux core and making things easy to use for the average graphic designer.

I don't really care about pissing matches, but charging 2K or 3K for a machine that could be built out of off the shelf parts for half the cost is bullshiat.

The OS is sweet, to be sure. But they have charged way too much for way too long for anyone to stand and defend it.

HeadbangerSmurf: You buy Apple because it works, not because it's a huge difference or you want to stick it to Microsoft. That's just damn stupid.

Buy it because you want it and can afford it, or don't buy it because you don't want it or can't afford it. That's all there is to it.

FuturePastNow: Buy it because you want it and can afford it, or don't buy it because you don't want it or can't afford it. That's all there is to it.

Adults think beyond the day they open the box containing their new acquisition.

Congratulations. I ought to throw this guy a party.

These days, if all I could get was Vista, I'd seriously think about switching to Apple. Not because Apple is great, but because Vista is a POS.

I'm typing this on a MacBook, so I'm really a getting a kick out of these replies.

What an idiot. Apple has only become an interesting company within the last ten years.

Blasphemy! This thread is full of blasphemy!


/obligatory
//starcraft2!! so exciting!

unlikely: I don't understand the zealotry at all on either side of the Mac/PC psychosis. They're machines, they do what you tell them to do within certain tolerances, and neither is deserving of the mindless bigotry that swirls around them.

THIS.

I own a Macbook Pro, but as I look at replacing my primary development machine, I can't really justify the price of a Mac Pro. I would love to have one, but if I'm going to outlay that much cash, I'd want a clear upgrade path (ability to drop in any PCI-E video card, upgrade processors, etc). It sucks, because I really like OSX. I'll probably go with Kubuntu and hope all of the hardware works.

What a smug little bastard. He managed to kick the habit but I never stood a chance. I was introduced to Apple when I was but 5 years old and now it's 25 years later. It's like Robert Downey Jr being given drugs as a child. Using Mac products doesn't get me high, it just gets me to normal. Trying to use a PC is like being a lefty given right hand scissors.

I own a PC because I am computer literate, and yes it works.

Why is this news worthy? Even for Fark.

Some idiot that used to use Apple 10 years ago... is still not using Apple.

wow.

You can not be an Apple zealot if your experience is stopped in 1998. That is when things started to change for Apple.

xtex: Anyway, I'm not really an Apple fanboy anymore. Leopard cured that.

You mentioned the same sentiment in another thread. What is it about Leopard that prompts you to say that?

MY PUTER IS BESTER THAN URS!

...proving once again that the only thing more tiresome then a zealot is an ex-zealot.

1. build your own PC
2. install Mac OSX86 on it
3. NOBODY PROFITS!

Were Apple fans 10 years ago even anything like Apple fans of today?

Salacious Salad: I own a PC because I am computer literate

Here's some news for you: Many Mac users are much more "computer literate" than you will ever be.

If you're gonna troll, please put some effort into it.

cambie: You know who else tightly controls their hardware that you can run on? HP-UX and AIX. Of course, Linux is certainly taking over the workload from both those platforms in my company.

you're moving off of AIX for LINUX? Do you really hate yourself that much?

although yeah, HP-UX, kind of a POS. 11.31 especially.

"More than a decade now".. so this means dude gave up in the midst of OS 9, since OS X was introduced in '99. Even Apple has given up on OS 9. But the other day I used a bone-stock iMac with OS9 on it and was able to download some updates (for its conversion to OS X)
and browse the web..

unlike say, a stock Windows 98 install which won't even load up Microsoft's current home page..

skinink: the fact that Apple doesn't let you

Apple can't keep you from doing whatever you want to do.

mr_bunny: Having said that, they did a great job locking in a niche market with a modified Linux core and making things easy to use for the average graphic designer.

as a graphic designer who's graduating this semester, i'm still waiting for all these "un-pc and proud" folks to come up with one real reason they prefer macs. I really don't get it.

from what i've seen, people start with a mac when they've never used a computer because it's user-friendly and bolted down. the super-dumbed-down interface makes things incredibly easy for casual users, but (in my opinion) you lose a lot in organization and accessibility.

Price is the major factor for me. I had to get a Mac Powerbook for the college I enrolled in, and it's been kind to me except for the fact that they came out with MacBook Pro a few months later, and that battery recall they had on mine.

I like the Mac, but it's getting old and a replacement is going to come soon. I will keep it around as a day to day laptop, but will replace it with a powerful desktop (I'm an architecture student so lots of modeling, rendering, adobe software, etc). When it comes down to it, I can get much more power per dollar out of a PC that I build myself than from a Mac. Sure, I may have quite a few problems on the PC, but I'm proficient enough to work them out.

mr_bunny: I don't really care about pissing matches, but charging 2K or 3K for a machine that could be built out of off the shelf parts for half the cost is bullshiat.

I'm guessing you've never taken a MacPro apart. That is a well designed machine. Where can you find that for 1/2 the cost? Remember that that's a Xeon motherboard.





And my Dell M90 is nowhere as elegant as my MBP:

"Come Back To Us... You know you belong with us..."

My MacBook Pro dual boots Windows Vista Ultimate when I need to run accounting software or get my Baldur's Gate fix. I like OS X better, but I could live with Linux since I do have the technical skill to get it working. My main reason to go Apple was the hardware, which now runs any of the above operating systems just fine as the user's software needs and preferences dictate. So there.

I've got 3PC's and 2 Macs at home, and I have much fewer problems with the Macs. I used Macs back in '92-96 when the first PowerBooks hit the street, and went away from them until the PowerBook G4. Recently got a MacBook Pro at work, and an iMac at home - and I'm much more productive on the Mac. That's really the difference. I don't care which is faster or more flexible - I just care which tool helps me get more work done.

Weaps: ost haters are basing their hate on the very era that this guy claims he 'deprogrammed' himself from.

Windows XP versus OS 9 on PPC was definitely a challenging phase for Apple. But now, with OS X on Intel chips, with equivalent hardware from major vendors like Dell and Apple costing equivalent prices, it's hard to argue that getting this cohesive Unix/Intel platform from Apple is a problem.

mr_bunny: they did a great job locking in a niche market with a modified Linux core

You do realize that OS X is not based on Linux, right? The BSD branches of UNIX are industrial strength operating systems, including BSDi, NetBSD, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and Darwin/OS X. Apple considers FreeBSD as their reference BSD.

You might be interested in reading The Strength of BSD (pops).

mr_bunny: They have a decent platform, they just cost too much.

Unless you are in the publishing biz they are simply not worth the cost.

For those who already have their own keyboard, mouse and monitor, there's the Mac Mini starting at $599.

Is $599 too much?

Kyosuke:
Apple can't keep you from doing whatever you want to do.

what about when i'm working in the school lab and i want to be able to... ya know... right click?

mr_bunny: niche market with a modified Linux core

Oh yeah. BSD != Linux

Macs keep an amazing resale value. My G4 iMac is 5 years old and worth $650 on the classified site I just checked. You have a hard time giving a 5 year old PC away.

cosmos_31: Blasphemy! This thread is full of blasphemy!


/obligatory
//starcraft2!! so exciting!

MY LIFE FOR AIUR!

Dr. Farkenstein: mr_bunny: They have a decent platform, they just cost too much.

Unless you are in the publishing biz they are simply not worth the cost.

For those who already have their own keyboard, mouse and monitor, there's the Mac Mini starting at $599.

Is $599 too much?

it was my understanding the mac mini was prone to overheating and being a generally big piece of crap.

correct me if i'm wrong, but thats what happend to 3 people i knew who had them.

Apple fanboys are the Republicans of computerdom. They're whiny, conformist and submissive, and they use the rhetoric of victimhood even when they're winning.