Maybe the Gazans would go for becoming part of Egypt. They'd no longer be stateless or in a constant war mode with Israel.

Or maybe they won't.

"We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us" ~Golda Meir

Could be they'd go for it, dunno. Perhaps some sort of semi-autonomous zone or federated in thing...

Mainly though I don't think the EGYPTIANS will be too happy to just jump at it, at least without a lot of aid and planning. Completely aside from any militancy issues, the Gazans aren't exactly wealthy, and are likely to need a lot of services for a while.

I mean, even the German reunification didn't happen completely painlessly by any means, and don't even get started on talks of unifying NK and SK, even among those who want it, they know it will be a very huge upheaval.

itazurakko: Mainly though I don't think the EGYPTIANS will be too happy to just jump at it, at least without a lot of aid and planning. Completely aside from any militancy issues, the Gazans aren't exactly wealthy, and are likely to need a lot of services for a while.

What? You mean Arabs don't care about Palestinians unless its for their own propaganda purposes? Color me shocked, SHOCKED I say.

Tatsuma: What? You mean Arabs don't care about Palestinians unless its for their own propaganda purposes? Color me shocked, SHOCKED I say.

That's not what I said.

itazurakko: That's not what I said.

No, that's not what you said, but that's still the reality of things.

Egypt:"The Zionist regime are oppressing the Palestinians!"
Israel:"Well, they have breached your border and are now in your country, so why don't you start caring for them from now o-"
Egypt:"Whoa there. No way."

Yeah, Egypt and much of the Arab world really love to cry about the Palestinians, but you have to strong-arm them to do pretty much ANYTHING that requires an actual effort when it comes to helping them.

They want the Gazans to get better, as long as they don't have anything to do about it

Actually, the Egyptians have said publicly that they do not want responsibility for Gaza. Some Israeli officials suggested this after the border wall/barrier was breached by Hamas, and Egypt quickly rejected the idea.

AirForceVet

"We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us we fark off back to Eastern Europe" ~Golda Meir

FTFY moran.

Tatsuma you're way off base that it's hilarious, constantly clutching at straws to prove an unprovable point. Your constant myth making is as false as the state of Israel and the fake jooz that occupy it. I'm a real jew, Im from Iraq, I'm a semite, you're a fake jew, you're from Poland, that makes you a Slav, an occupier of Palestinian lands.

Tatsuma

Jesus Christ, just STFU. Nobody give two shiats what you say because it is the same shiat OVER AND OVER. Everybody knows you are a zealot.
We get it, ok? You are honestly like my farking girlfriend with the same retarded shiat over and goddamn over. Only she isn't as biatchy.

AirForceVet:
"We will have peace with the Arabs when they love their children more than they hate us" ~Golda Meir

As someone who has spent plenty of time in both areas.

This.

Tatsuma:

Egypt:"The Zionist regime are oppressing the Palestinians!"
Israel:"Well, they have breached your border and are now in your country, so why don't you start caring for them from now o-"
Egypt:"Whoa there. No way."

Yeah, Egypt and much of the Arab world really love to cry about the Palestinians, but you have to strong-arm them to do pretty much ANYTHING that requires an actual effort when it comes to helping them.

They want the Gazans to get better, as long as they don't have anything to do about it

And this.

The fundamental fact of the matter is that all the elites in the Arab world love the Palistinian cause because the major thing it does is distract everyone from their own abuses. This is especially true of Egypt but qualifies to some extent for all the countries in the region. The last thing anyone wants is either Israel to go away or Palestinians to be free.

Tatsuma is right in this. The arabs are using the palestinians. If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

Either way, america shouldn't be helping either side. Let them fight it out without american intervention. I guarantee Israel will win that battle. They've done it before and they'll do it again. After enough bloodshed, both sides will either come to a truce or annihilate one another. It more or less comes down to a civil war with regional interest.

If Iran, Syria, and Egypt want to try again, I, as a non-interested amercian, say let them go for it. Arabs already failed more than once.... let them try again.

From the current way the Egyptians are behaving, it looks like the Palestinians would be trading one set of oppressive overlords for another.

They'd just be used as cats-paws by Egypt.

That's why an independent state is necessary. This is a group of people that has been so marginalized they have no place anywhere.

worlddan: The fundamental fact of the matter is that all the elites in the Arab world love the Palistinian cause because the major thing it does is distract everyone from their own abuses. This is especially true of Egypt but qualifies to some extent for all the countries in the region. The last thing anyone wants is either Israel to go away or Palestinians to be free.

Absolutely, 100% true.

sarcastrophe: They've done it before and they'll do it again.

This is what I truly fear in the region. It will only results in lots of death, increased hatred, and increased determination in the mind of militant Islam to justify further and NEVER be willing to deal with their enemies short of death.

sarcastrophe: Tatsuma is right in this. The arabs are using the palestinians. If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

Either way, america shouldn't be helping either side. Let them fight it out without american intervention. I guarantee Israel will win that battle. They've done it before and they'll do it again. After enough bloodshed, both sides will either come to a truce or annihilate one another. It more or less comes down to a civil war with regional interest.

If Iran, Syria, and Egypt want to try again, I, as a non-interested amercian, say let them go for it. Arabs already failed more than once.... let them try again.

Ok, with no more American aid to Israel. America needs to be uninvolved.


Obdicut: From the current way the Egyptians are behaving, it looks like the Palestinians would be trading one set of oppressive overlords for another.

They'd just be used as cats-paws by Egypt.

That's why an independent state is necessary. This is a group of people that has been so marginalized they have no place anywhere.

Yeah, Egypt seems to be devolving on the old prosperity and freedom front. Bummer.

Leave the occupied zones completely. Give the Gaza Strip to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan, or let them be completely independent. Who cares. Just leave, Israel. Kthxbai.

No one on Fark is qualified beyond prejudice to comment accurately and objectively on this issue. That said, there is only ONE FACT that the Israeli supporting fascisti hate to be reminded of, namely that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian lands. To argue anything else is to bring much dishonesty into the debate, something the European occupiers in Palestine are adept at.

boomaze: Tatsuma

Jesus Christ, just STFU. Nobody give two shiats what you say because it is the same shiat OVER AND OVER.

Creationists say the same thing about evolution, but that doesn't mean they're right.

Tats is exactly and precisely right except that he's way, way too polite. Not only are the non-Palestinian Arabs using the Palestinians as a propaganda source, but -- and here's the impolite part that people have to realize before there is peace in the region -- the Palestinians want it that way. The Palestinians want to live in squalor and under constant attack. They like it. They want it. They do not want a functioning Palestinian state unless every Jew in the region is dead or paying the Jizya.

Barak and Clinton offered Arafat 99% of his demands -- he refused, and in his own way he was right to do so because he people back home would have assassinated him if he accepted. The Israelis left Gaza unilaterally -- the Palestinians responded by electing Hamas. Worldwide Jews and others left the Palestinians functioning greenhouses to grow food -- they didn't last a week. Every time the border is opened, the Palestinians bring in not food or fuel but rockets and warheads.

The Palestinians continue to hate the Jews more than they love their children -- indeed, they want their children to die. They will never learn otherwise from me or Tats or others who have been speaking the truth the whole time; if they're to change and avoid eventual diaspora, they're going to have to be set right by people who have historically claimed to be their friends -- Arabs, if you can find any, but more likely the American and European left wings. If there's to be something called a Palestine or even a Palestinian people 50 years from now, it lies to those people to make it happen.

Devil Slide Wolf: No one on Fark is qualified beyond prejudice to comment accurately and objectively on this issue.

Then shut the fark up.

That said, there is only ONE FACT that the Israeli supporting fascisti hate to be reminded of, namely that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian lands.

You are only correct because you can type with caps lock on. Once I master that skill you will cease being right because my big lettered words will overpower yours.

To argue anything else is to bring much dishonesty into the debate, something the European occupiers in Palestine are adept at.

"If you don't agree with me, then you are a liar!"

Thanks, retard. You're from Iraq you say? Why am I not surprised?

I don't see why Egypt should be responsible for cleaning up Israel's decades-long mess.

boomaze: Ok, with no more American aid to Israel. America needs to be uninvolved.

Yep.... nothing at all. And no aid to palestinians either. I mean completely wash our hands of it and let them fight it out.

KaponoFor3: This is what I truly fear in the region. It will only results in lots of death, increased hatred, and increased determination in the mind of militant Islam to justify further and NEVER be willing to deal with their enemies short of death.

Eventually, when Israel wipes out nations, they'll learn to stop farking with Israel.

You are only correct because you can type with caps lock on.

I AM GETTING REALLY GOOD HEAD FROM JESSICA ALBA RIGHT NOW AND HAVE A BILLION DOLLARS.WOO.

Polly Ester:
Then shut the fark up.

You are only correct because you can type with caps lock on. Once I master that skill you will cease being right because my big lettered words will overpower yours.

"If you don't agree with me, then you are a liar!"

Thanks, retard. You're from Iraq you say? Why am I not surprised?

You know when you remove DSW's post from yours one can really see the wonderful intelligence that you brought to the debate. Thanks for making all of our lives a little brighter with your logic and erudition.

KaponoFor3: Actually, the Egyptians have said publicly that they do not want responsibility for Gaza. Some Israeli officials suggested this after the border wall/barrier was breached by Hamas, and Egypt quickly rejected the idea.

Think a few billion dollars might change their mind? Maybe we can pay them to takeover the strip.

HotWingConspiracy: I don't see why Egypt should be responsible for cleaning up Israel's decades-long mess.

When did it becomes Israel's, the Jewish States, problem to go and help out the Arab refugees? I mean, when the Arabs kicked out the Jews after the War of Independence (1948-1949), within a few years, Jewish refugees (roughly 850,000) had homes! Why doesn't the Arab people take care of their problem? Because they are using the Palestinians as a pawn in their hate game towards Israel.

sarcastrophe: Tatsuma is right in this. The arabs are using the palestinians. If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

"The Arabs" are the ones "using" Palestinians even though Israel is the one that turned Gaza into a concentration camp and the West Bank into a Bantustan?

ShalomIamthedude: HotWingConspiracy: I don't see why Egypt should be responsible for cleaning up Israel's decades-long mess.

When did it becomes Israel's, the Jewish States, problem to go and help out the Arab refugees? I mean, when the Arabs kicked out the Jews after the War of Independence (1948-1949), within a few years, Jewish refugees (roughly 850,000) had homes! Why doesn't the Arab people take care of their problem? Because they are using the Palestinians as a pawn in their hate game towards Israel.

Why are you breaking it down by race?

Devil Slide Wolf: ...That said, there is only ONE FACT that the Israeli supporting fascisti hate to be reminded of, namely that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian lands. To argue anything else is to bring much dishonesty into the debate, something the European occupiers in Palestine are adept at.

Wow, you can say a statement; however, I can say fact.....
You're wrong!

You have no clear idea on how this erupted! Also, can someone please explain to me why the Arab world continues to say they want to help the Palestinians but, with all their billions of dollars from oil sales, they don't actually do anything to help them. Lets see, when the Jews were kicked out of Arab lands, the country built houses for them, got them jobs, etc. The Arab world? Gave the Palestinians some tents and said to them "Make sure to blame the Jewish State for all of this."

Manfred J. Hattan:

Tats is exactly and precisely right except that he's way, way too polite. Not only are the non-Palestinian Arabs using the Palestinians as a propaganda source, but -- and here's the impolite part that people have to realize before there is peace in the region -- the Palestinians want it that way. The Palestinians want to live in squalor and under constant attack. They like it. They want it. They do not want a functioning Palestinian state unless every Jew in the region is dead or paying the Jizya.


This is as stupid as it is sick. Palestinians do not "want it that way." There are some segments of the Palestinians leadership that want it that because they know that only if the people are poor and starving can they appeal to the bleeding hearts of the Western world and skim off all the aid for themselves.

(1) The real problem is educational and cultural. Arabs do not have a cultural tradition of democracy and people power the way we do. The closest thing the Middle East has to an actual democracy is Iran (yes, Iran) and they are Persian, nor arabs. Expecting arabs to conform to Western notions of order is cultural imperalism at its worst. Palestinians "want it" about as much as a woman in a mini skirt wants rape.

(2) The second thing this debate overlooks is that the Palestinians people have legitimate complaints. Isreal is not an innocent party. Yes, Golda is right that the Palestinians hate each other but Isreal is not the innocent party wondering "why can't we all just get along"; that's fantasy too.

After years in the Middle East my own honest response is "a pox on both your houses." Get us some renewable energy and get us the hell out of the hellhole that is the Middle East and let them all stew in their own juices together.

I wonder, if I was an admin and could look at the IP's of the posters in this thread, how many would be identical?

It is just my opinion, but I think Fark would be a much better place if there were no "Alts" allowed.

HotWing....
I'm not breaking it down by race, I'm just pointing out the Jews helped their fellow Jews, but the Arabs don't help their fellow Arabs?

Last time I checked, an American can get help from the American Government, the Czech's from the Czech Republic, etc.

More trouble in the middle east?? What do we do??

Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure...

HotWingConspiracy: I don't see why Egypt should be responsible for cleaning up Israel's decades-long mess.

The entire region has created a centuries-long mess. To try and blame it on Israel, or Palestinians, or Arabs alone is to do an injustice to history. The blame lies on all parts, and everyone would rather blame the other guy than actually fix the problem.

you farktards Gaza belongs to Egypt Israel stole it, hence why they aren't allowed to place settlements under UN law.

Read a book you MORANS. ROFL LOL LAWL GTG BRB AFK PCMCIA GOD YOU'RE GAY.

Arthur Jumbles: Think a few billion dollars might change their mind?

A few billion dollars (or more likely, some organized transition program with huge amounts of aid) would allow for other issues to have a hope of being discussed, out of the overwhelming shadow of the money problem.

What would happen at that point, who knows.

But even if you had two countries who WERE really and truly BFF, with an income disparity and economic difference as great as this they cannot imagine just merging overnight. It simply overshadows everything else.

glaurunge: sarcastrophe: Tatsuma is right in this. The arabs are using the palestinians. If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

"The Arabs" are the ones "using" Palestinians even though Israel is the one that turned Gaza into a concentration camp and the West Bank into a Bantustan?

Yep. I'm pretty sure it was made pretty clear that either they stop shooting rockets into Israel or Israel is going to cut their stuff off. But even then, it doesn't matter. This is arab nations performing a proxy war on Israel via palestinian militants.

Even then, it doesn't really matter. You can agree or disagree with me, but the US shouldn't have any place in what amounts to a civil war. Stop supporting both sides. Let them fight it out. It'll be a nasty bloody, disgusting war. Hopefully some countries care about their citizens more than they hate Israel.

Hell, I wouldn't even hold Israel at fault if they decided to nuke some country. It should be made very clear.

Israel: We are a powerful country. If your country attacks us, we will attack ferociously. Your citizens will die -- civilians even.

Other country: DEATH TO ISRAEL!

Israel: No seriously, either control your population or we're really going to fark you up.

Other country: DEATH TO ISRAEL!

Israel: Well... don't say we didn't warn you.

hyperbole: you farktards Gaza belongs to Egypt Israel stole it, hence why they aren't allowed to place settlements under UN law.

Read a book you MORANS. ROFL LOL LAWL GTG BRB AFK PCMCIA GOD YOU'RE GAY.

But yet when Israel wanted to return the Gaza Strip to Egypt in the Camp David Accords in 1978, Egypt said s/t along the lines of hell no!

ShalomIamthedude: HotWing....
I'm not breaking it down by race, I'm just pointing out the Jews helped their fellow Jews, but the Arabs don't help their fellow Arabs?

Yeaaahhhh...not breaking it down by race...

Last time I checked, an American can get help from the American Government, the Czech's from the Czech Republic, etc.

Those are political entities.

Whoa! And Israel, the Jewish State, is a political entity too!

But yet the PLO, established 1964, 3 years before the 6 Day War, they still gave the Palestinians tents or anything to help the people!

Correction: They didn't give the Palestinians....

ShalomIamthedude: Devil Slide Wolf: ...That said, there is only ONE FACT that the Israeli supporting fascisti hate to be reminded of, namely that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian lands. To argue anything else is to bring much dishonesty into the debate, something the European occupiers in Palestine are adept at.

Wow, you can say a statement; however, I can say fact.....
You're wrong!

You have no clear idea on how this erupted! Also, can someone please explain to me why the Arab world continues to say they want to help the Palestinians but, with all their billions of dollars from oil sales, they don't actually do anything to help them. Lets see, when the Jews were kicked out of Arab lands, the country built houses for them, got them jobs, etc. The Arab world? Gave the Palestinians some tents and said to them "Make sure to blame the Jewish State for all of this."

Why are you putting all the onus on just the "Arabs?" So Japan is supposed to absorb any refugee with epicanthal folds and brown skin? The answer is no. Japan, along with every other country on Earth, is obligated to help people. Period.

But that's not really what you're talking about here is it? I think what you're talking about is getting the rest of the world to assist Israel in ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank of Palestinians.

Devil Slide Wolf: Tatsuma you're way off base that it's hilarious, constantly clutching at straws to prove an unprovable point. Your constant myth making is as false as the state of Israel and the fake jooz that occupy it. I'm a real jew, Im from Iraq, I'm a semite, you're a fake jew, you're from Poland, that makes you a Slav, an occupier of Palestinian lands.

If you really think that's the case, you really know little about what it means to be a Jew

hint: Ashkenazi and Mizrahi Jews are the same, DNA-wise
hint 2: We're the same according to Halacha too

namely that Israel is OCCUPYING Palestinian lands

Actually, Israel hasn't been occupying Gaza since 2006, according to International LAW. Just FYI

Yes, countries should help people, but as any country leader will tell you their citizens go first before anyone else.

Second, Israel is not ethnically cleansing Palestinians.
Once again, you made the same mistake as Devil, saying words w/out any meaning. The Jews/Israeli's are not going into towns saying convert or die, they're not killing anyone at will as a collective, and most of all, Israel has been asking the Arab world since we can't do anything, you try and help out your fellow people for now until we can sort this whole mess out. Arabs respond something along the lines of "hell no!"

ShalomIamthedude: Second, Israel is not ethnically cleansing Palestinians.

Really, the "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing" of the Palestinians during the last 40 years have proven something that is irrefutable:

Jews really are the WORST people when it comes to get a genocide right.

I mean, you're supposed to kill them, not allowing them to grow 10 times the size they were, as well as giving them political freedom, electricity, supplies, etc...

Shesh, open a book about the History of America and get it right.

/Do I need to mention that I'm sarcastic and I'm not actually saying Jews should start "doing the job right"?
//Since I'm on Fark, yeah, I should

ShalomIamthedude: Whoa! And Israel, the Jewish State, is a political entity too!

Again with the race.

sarcastrophe: glaurunge: sarcastrophe: Tatsuma is right in this. The arabs are using the palestinians. If you can't see that, you've got blinders on.

"The Arabs" are the ones "using" Palestinians even though Israel is the one that turned Gaza into a concentration camp and the West Bank into a Bantustan?

Yep. I'm pretty sure it was made pretty clear that either they stop shooting rockets into Israel or Israel is going to cut their stuff off.

Who is "they"? Every one of the 1.5 million Gazans? I agree, those responcible should face the consequences, but not the 1.5 million human beings who happen to reside in the same strip of land.

glaurunge: Why are you putting all the onus on just the "Arabs?" So Japan is supposed to absorb any refugee with epicanthal folds and brown skin? The answer is no. Japan, along with every other country on Earth, is obligated to help people. Period.

Are they? Really? Every country is obligated to get in the middle of a civil war? You can't possibly be serious. Either my sarcasm meter is broken or you're seriously confused.

But that's not really what you're talking about here is it? I think what you're talking about is getting the rest of the world to assist Israel in ethnically cleansing Gaza and the West Bank of Palestinians.

The best bet is to let Israel deal with their own security the way they need to. They should go to the UN and announce to all countries that they will react, with overwhelming force, against any country that undermines their sovreignty. Perhaps one warning, and then just let loose.

If *I* were Israel, I would tell my citizens:

Listen, we are going to live our lives for 1 month, and Israel isn't going to attack anyone. Everything within our borders is state responsibility and our borders will be completely closed. If we get attacked, we will suffer for the cost of peace. If after 1 month, people are still attacking us, we will solve the problem.... permanently.

If palestinians wish to continue attacking Israel for a month, they've dug their grave.

I don't see the problem with this.

Well, good to known I'm surrounded by Racists, see you all around, lol

Btw, not giving up here, just decided not worth arguing w/ignorant people who don't want a realistic peace where both sides make realistic concessions on both sides.

Shalom, Peace, and Salaam to all!

HotWingConspiracy: ShalomIamthedude: Whoa! And Israel, the Jewish State, is a political entity too!

Again with the race.

No I'm not, last time I checked when the UN established Israel it is called "The Jewish State."

In their declaration of independence they identify themselves as "The Jewish State."

Btw, Jews are not a race, we're a religion as well as a nationality.