District Judge Barbara Lynn upheld the constitutionality of the law earlier this month, concluding that "the primary effect of the statute is to institute a moment of silence, not to advance or inhibit religion."

I politely disagree.

It is taking federally funded time out of their day to pray. The primary effect is to pray, and this judge is a moron for thinking otherwise.

District Judge Barbara Lynn upheld the constitutionality of the law earlier this month, concluding that "the primary effect of the statute is to institute a moment of silence, not to advance or inhibit religion."

I'm a raging atheist secularist, but I don't necessarily have a problem with this. Children aren't being required to pray, just to remain silent.

I mean, honestly I think it's farking pointless and there's no reason for a moment of silence, but it's not forcing religion.

There ARE some things that I think are unconstitutional and broach the separation of church and state. Religious phrases on our money are one. Having religious language in the Pledge of Allegiance is another.

This, not so much though.

Federal judge upholds the constitutionality of law requiring school children to observe a daily moment of silence to pray meditate

FTFY

FlyingPig: I'm a raging atheist secularist, but I don't necessarily have a problem with this. Children aren't being required to pray, just to remain silent.

Kyosuke: Federal judge upholds the constitutionality of law requiring school children to observe a daily moment of silence to pray meditate

FTFY

The teacher told the kid it was a 'time for prayer'.

Oh noes!!!11!!! The children might be thinking of Jesus during that time! We can't have that! Kill it! Kill it!

Some of you people are such intolerant assholes it makes me sick.

Why the fark don't you go to China where you can live in harmony with the government.

/A couple of minutes of silence to start the day is good for the teacher when she is taking attendance anyways.
//Or did you retards that will say..."2 minutes spent on silence is a waste of my time and tax money for Jesus! The horrors!" even bother to think of that.

DamnYankees: FlyingPig: I'm a raging atheist secularist, but I don't necessarily have a problem with this. Children aren't being required to pray, just to remain silent.

Kyosuke: Federal judge upholds the constitutionality of law requiring school children to observe a daily moment of silence to pray meditate

FTFY

The teacher told the kid it was a 'time for prayer'.

Precisely. This shouldn't happen, and moments of silence have been struck down in the courts before. The moment of silence is yet another attempt by the Christofascists to backdoor religion into the schools.

muck4doo: Why the fark don't you go to China where you can live in harmony with the government.

Why the fark don't you go to Iran, where the government will make everyone else adhere to your religion.

TheCid: DamnYankees: FlyingPig: I'm a raging atheist secularist, but I don't necessarily have a problem with this. Children aren't being required to pray, just to remain silent.

Kyosuke: Federal judge upholds the constitutionality of law requiring school children to observe a daily moment of silence to pray meditate

FTFY

The teacher told the kid it was a 'time for prayer'.

Precisely. This shouldn't happen, and moments of silence have been struck down in the courts before. The moment of silence is yet another attempt by the Christofascists to backdoor religion into the schools.

Exactly. A moment of silence is equivilant to proselytizing, or, at least that could be what's happening in those silent childrens heads. Unless we can control what they think during that time, it must be out of bounds.

/I am not talking right now. Guess if I'm thinking about boobies, beer, or Jesus.

kronicfeld: muck4doo: Why the fark don't you go to China where you can live in harmony with the government.

Why the fark don't you go to Iran, where the government will make everyone else adhere to your religion.

How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

Boooo. Forced prayer in class cheapens praying.

muck4doo: How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

It's a "wink wink, nudge nudge" way of sneaking designated prayer time into school.

How about if we all have a mid-day foot washing?

muck4doo: How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

If the purpose or effect of the law was to specifically a lot of set amount of time so people could engage in prayer, then its unconstitutional, since its a law made purely for the accommodation of religion.

I don't think it's really worth suing over, but if I were a judge, I don't know how I could decide any other way.

Bonzo_1116: Boooo. Forced prayer in class cheapens praying.

How is having a moment of silence equal to forced prayer? Is someone making you think of Jesus if your lips stop flapping?

kronicfeld: muck4doo: How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

It's a "wink wink, nudge nudge" way of sneaking designated prayer time into school.

How about if we all have a mid-day foot washing?

Maybe we should have morning wafer-and-wine breakfasts. You know, for secular reasons.

kronicfeld: muck4doo: How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

It's a "wink wink, nudge nudge" way of sneaking designated prayer time into school.

How about if we all have a mid-day foot washing?

I see. You are afraid of what people might be thinking whilst teacher takes attendance. A moment of silence is exactly that. Silence. How does silence=promoting a religion?

DamnYankees: kronicfeld: muck4doo: How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

It's a "wink wink, nudge nudge" way of sneaking designated prayer time into school.

How about if we all have a mid-day foot washing?

Maybe we should have morning wafer-and-wine breakfasts. You know, for secular reasons.

How does silence=foot washing? Silence=quiet, feel free to think what you want. Foot washing=everybody go wash your feet.

/Do you always make stupid arguements like that?

It's a contrivance. Kids are free to be thinking about whatever they want whenever they want all day long. After all, the teacher can't get in their head and know they're NOT thinking about class. So what possible purpose could a moment of silence have?

kronicfeld: It's a contrivance. Kids are free to be thinking about whatever they want whenever they want all day long. After all, the teacher can't get in their head and know they're NOT thinking about class. So what possible purpose could a moment of silence have?

A couple of minutes to take roll call without a bunch of kids all talking at once?

muck4doo: A couple of minutes to take roll call without a bunch of kids all talking at once?

You are so full of it. It's not roll call. It's not silence if the teacher's talking and they're answering, is it?

kronicfeld: muck4doo: A couple of minutes to take roll call without a bunch of kids all talking at once?

You are so full of it. It's not roll call. It's not silence if the teacher's talking and they're answering, is it?

For the first couple of days no. Usually they have seating assignments after that.

/Why are you so afraid of what people might be thinking if there is no noise?

muck4doo: /Why are you so afraid of what people might be thinking if there is no noise?

Why are religious people so dependent on the state to promote their dogma?

muck4doo: Bonzo_1116: Boooo. Forced prayer in class cheapens praying.

How is having a moment of silence equal to forced prayer? Is someone making you think of Jesus if your lips stop flapping?


From the article (which is dreadfully thin on actual information) it's a:
state law requiring school children to observe a daily moment of silence to pray or meditate.

It's not a moment of silence to take attendance. It's specifically a moment of silence to engage in religious activity, whether it's prayer or meditation, or what have you.

However, not having the actual text of said law available, I can't see where the judge came to the conclusion that it's merely a moment of silence....any Texas Farkers care to enlighten everybody else?

/I personally think that even if this is an effort to get kids to pray in school, it's not really going to be very effective. Most kids are going to be thinking about what's for lunch, not Jesus.

kronicfeld: muck4doo: /Why are you so afraid of what people might be thinking if there is no noise?

Why are religious people so dependent on the state to promote their dogma?

How does "silence" promote a religious dogma? Since when did not saying anything turn into proselytizing? Are peoples brainwaves crossing into yours if no one says a thing?

muck4doo: I see. You are afraid of what people might be thinking whilst teacher takes attendance. A moment of silence is exactly that. Silence. How does silence=promoting a religion?

The teacher said it was "time for prayer.

She said it. It's obvious.

DamnYankees: muck4doo: I see. You are afraid of what people might be thinking whilst teacher takes attendance. A moment of silence is exactly that. Silence. How does silence=promoting a religion?

The teacher said it was "time for prayer.

She said it. It's obvious.

That's her interpretation of it, and what she might be doing at that time. If someone else said it was time for thinking of Jessica Alba's ass, would that mean that's what everyone was required to do? If that teacher didn't write the policy, I think it is extremely disingenous of you to state her opinion as what everyone is supposed to doing during, "silence".

muck4doo: kronicfeld: muck4doo: How is being silent a promotion of religion? Is "not speaking for a couple of minutes" now someone shoving religion down your sensitive, yet smooth throat?

It's a "wink wink, nudge nudge" way of sneaking designated prayer time into school.

How about if we all have a mid-day foot washing?

I see. You are afraid of what people might be thinking whilst teacher takes attendance. A moment of silence is exactly that. Silence. How does silence=promoting a religion?

If you're trolling, bravo.

In case you're not:

1) The moment of silence is a religious thing. It is intended to allow the religious time to pray. Just because some non-religious people could possibly find something other than being bored, irritated, and uneasy to do during it doesn't make it otherwise.

2) It is not even for the religious, it's against the non-religious. The religious have before school, between classes (if applicable) recess, and lunch in which to pray if they so desire. The purpose of it is to make the non-religious feel left-out and uneasy, in other words, using peer pressure to try and get more people into the religion. It is the exact same kind of bullshiat tactics the Scientologists use.

3) Faculty can, will, and do abuse it to endorse their religions. As stated earlier, many of them will specifically call it time for prayer, and it'll make a great non-religious person detector for them, so they can know which children are godless heathens.

4) In addition to faculty, other students will also use it to find the non-religious students so they know who to gang up on and bully. If you think that sort of thing wouldn't happen, you obviously were either homeschooled, or don't remember what it's like to go through primary school.

muck4doo: That's her interpretation of it, and what she might be doing at that time. If someone else said it was time for thinking of Jessica Alba's ass, would that mean that's what everyone was required to do? If that teacher didn't write the policy, I think it is extremely disingenous of you to state her opinion as what everyone is supposed to doing during, "silence".

It's called evidence. The meaning of a statute can be interpreted by the way people enforce it. There was also nothing racist about literacy tests for voting, right? I mean, the law had nothing to do with race, that was just their interpretation.

DamnYankees: muck4doo: That's her interpretation of it, and what she might be doing at that time. If someone else said it was time for thinking of Jessica Alba's ass, would that mean that's what everyone was required to do? If that teacher didn't write the policy, I think it is extremely disingenous of you to state her opinion as what everyone is supposed to doing during, "silence".

It's called evidence. The meaning of a statute can be interpreted by the way people enforce it. There was also nothing racist about literacy tests for voting, right? I mean, the law had nothing to do with race, that was just their interpretation.

So now a moment of silence is equivilant to literacy tests?

Silence endorses nothing. Silence is silence. What you and others problem is you hate it becuase people might be thinking at that time of things you disagree with. Why don't you just state it? I'm out of here, go on and reason amongst yourselves why freedom of thought is a bad thing and that you must control its limitations.

muck4doo: So now a moment of silence is equivilant to literacy tests?

Yes. Equivalent is exactly what I said. It wasn't an analogy or anything. I was called them the same.

I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

DamnYankees: muck4doo: So now a moment of silence is equivilant to literacy tests?

Yes. Equivalent is exactly what I said. It wasn't an analogy or anything. I was called them the same.

I'm going to become rich and famous after I invent a device that allows you to stab people in the face over the internet.

I agree with you on some things but not this one. I couldn't give less of a shiat what the 'intent' of this is. It doesn't create a burden on anyone. You don't want to pray? Fine think about whatever the hell you want. Allowing the possibility for someone to do something religious isn't harming anyone.

I'll agree on one thing though, the teacher shouldn't be calling this a moment for prayer.

Sorry guys, but you all sound like tinfoil hatters, here. Lots of slippery-slope arguments here.

I'm not a religious person, don't go to church, but don't get offended that some people do. It's a moment of silence. Yeah, the teacher said "prayer" but she didn't say what kind of prayer, which leaves it open to Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim, Scientologist, or even thinking about Jessica Alba's ass, if necessary.

Sorry, but I've heard some of your arguments and disagree. A moment of silence is not forceful propogation of any religion.

NickelP: I agree with you on some things but not this one. I couldn't give less of a shiat what the 'intent' of this is. It doesn't create a burden on anyone. You don't want to pray? Fine think about whatever the hell you want. Allowing the possibility for someone to do something religious isn't harming anyone.

I don't think creating a burden is any sort of standard at all. Tje question is, was a law passed which furthers a religious purpose without a sufficient secular purpose. I think the answer here is yes.

Naman: 1) The moment of silence is a religious thing. It is intended to allow the religious time to pray. Just because some non-religious people could possibly find something other than being bored, irritated, and uneasy to do during it doesn't make it otherwise.

I don't see the harm in giving religious people a moment of silence. I'm really not.

2) It is not even for the religious, it's against the non-religious. The religious have before school, between classes (if applicable) recess, and lunch in which to pray if they so desire. The purpose of it is to make the non-religious feel left-out and uneasy, in other words, using peer pressure to try and get more people into the religion. It is the exact same kind of bullshiat tactics the Scientologists use.

I think you're really overstating the effect of peer pressure by suggesting that everybody who is non-religious is going to convert because of their discomfort.

3) Faculty can, will, and do abuse it to endorse their religions. As stated earlier, many of them will specifically call it time for prayer, and it'll make a great non-religious person detector for them, so they can know which children are godless heathens.

Such teachers don't need a moment of silence if they are truly as abusive with their power as you suggest. The moment of silence would not change that. That's quite a demonization of religious people, by the way. Wow.

4) In addition to faculty, other students will also use it to find the non-religious students so they know who to gang up on and bully. If you think that sort of thing wouldn't happen, you obviously were either homeschooled, or don't remember what it's like to go through primary school.

I remember elementary school just fine. In fact, I went to several public schools growing up. I was teased about my hair, my feet, my teeth, my shoes, my last name, just about everything under the sun, but I do not remember religion ever being a topic.

In Japan, do they observe a moment of sirens?

Talon: It is taking federally funded time out of their day to pray. The primary effect is to pray, and this judge is a moron for thinking otherwise.

i don't doubt that was the intent behind getting it written into law to begin with. don't doubt that one bit.

however, on the other hand, it is not the only thing this moment could (or is) used for. the existence of such a moment is only outrageous if you don't consider that prayer is, for most people, nothing more than a moment of meditation, a moment of self-reflection, and i'm not talking about religious types... just people that might like a moment to be silent and think.

of course, i think the overarching issue here is whether it is worth all this debate and trouble... for either side. i really doubt the kids give two shiats about a moment of silence, don't stay silent, throw spitballs, try to fart, or whatever else kids might do to get cut up while their teacher is trying to hold a moment for prayer. keep it, get rid of it, i don't think it matters to the kids.

if the good people of dallas chaff under the constitution maybe they should gtfo of the country.

I thought that this would fall under the same kind of legal definition as something like led prayer - where the fact that all the other kids were praying would cause you to be forced to pretend to pray as well for fear of being ostracized. There's a term for it but it escapes me at the moment...

District Judge Barbara Lynn upheld the constitutionality of the law earlier this month, concluding that "the primary effect of the statute is to institute a moment of silence, not to advance or inhibit religion."

RESOLVED, That it be, and hereby is recommended to the good People of this Colony of all Denominations, that THURSDAY the Eleventh Day of May next be set apart as a Day of Public Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer...to confess the sins...to implore the Forgiveness of all our Transgression...and a blessing on the Husbandry, Manufactures, and other lawful Employments of this People; and especially that the union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights (for hitherto we desire to thank Almighty GOD) may be preserved and confirmed....And that AMERICA may soon behold a gracious Interposition of Heaven. ~ John Hancock

Fark two minutes of silence; I want my two minutes hate.

DamnYankees: There was also nothing racist about literacy tests for voting, right?

Not really. The problem was that certain segments were denied an education. If literacy were compulsory and education (k-12) free to all then who would care about literacy tests? The literacy test itself, just on it own?... not a problem.

(and yes, there should be somekinda grace period/education offered for those that couldn't read, and the tests should be in a common language of the land not greek...well unless one happens to be in greece)

So in actuality your flawed assertion is not true. Choose again.

Daneel Olivaw: DamnYankees: There was also nothing racist about literacy tests for voting, right?

Not really. The problem was that certain segments were denied an education. If literacy were compulsory and education (k-12) free to all then who would care about literacy tests? The literacy test itself, just on it own?... not a problem.

(and yes, there should be somekinda grace period/education offered for those that couldn't read, and the tests should be in a common language of the land not greek...well unless one happens to be in greece)

So in actuality your flawed assertion is not true. Choose again.

That's exactly my point. Even if a law is not textually unconstitutional, if the result and implementation results in unconstitutional effects, it can be struck down.

Bevets: John Hancock

Too bad about that whole 14th amendment thing, huh?

a moment of silence isn't prayer....? Right, and intelligent design isn't creationism.

I might be tempted to yell "Hail Satan!" as part of my religion during this time...

/Naman covered it pretty well
//pray on your own damn time

How can anyone argue that there is a NEED for a moment of silence to begin with?

Does there have to be silence for someone to pray? No. Is it impossible to pray while you are zoning out in class and not paying attention to the teacher? No.

Just because some kid feels the need to pray in silence because his parents have brainwashed him into believing religion is useful, it doesn't mean I want my kid to have to sit there doing nothing for an even larger portion of the school day.

As a ragin' athiest/ recovering catholic I should prolly have more of a problem with this end around the constitution but in fact I'm not altogether up in arms about it.

Coupla reasons fer that.

One, kidZ these days NEED to learn how to shut the FARK up and this gives them that opportunity.

Two, it gives the Buddhist kidZ a chance to contemplate their daily koans like "What is the sound of one hand fapping?"

/Not entirely clear on this whole Buddhism thing.
//When are they gonna teach kidZ to stay the Fark OFF MY LAWN?!
///Yes Keedin'. Bad idear.

Ron Paul will prolly luff it.

Putting American schools back on the Silence is golden standard!

This will, of course, piss off the AIDS activists.

/In case ya missed that ...Silence = Death.

FarkingFarkers: Fark two minutes of silence; I want my two minutes hate.

But Osama Emmanual Goldstein ibn Bin Laden isn't even real! ^_^

/How many fingers am I holding up?

Darius Harris:
As much as I try to see both sides, I just can't see the moment of silence being a threat to anyone or anything. I've yet to see that explained in a convincing way.
I don't understand the constitution.


FTFY