"I also understand why a lot of African-American voters think it would symbolically powerful and important to elect a brilliant, articulate, compelling vision embodied in Sen. Obama as the first African-American president."

So now they're positive statements to make him the 'black candidate'. Good choice, Bill.

attractive

Hm, we all know what happens when Bill finds someone attractive.

zagadka: Hm, we all know what happens when Bill finds someone attractive.

They eat too many cheeseburgers?

Dear god, what a disgusting comment. Black people are excited for a black president who can speak well?

What the hell is wrong with these people? The Clintons, that is. Patronizing sleaze.

FTFA:He said voters "are entitled to have their choices respected" but concluded that Americans should choose a president based on qualifications and experience.

So I should go with Obama? He has more experiance, and better qualifications then his wife.

/sleazy lawyer and first lady is not political experiance
//flame on

He said voters "are entitled to have their choices respected" but concluded that Americans should choose a president based on qualifications and experience.

I'm so sick of this argument from the Clintons. Not only does Obama have more ACTUAL legislative experience than Hillary Clinton, he also has WAY more experience than Bill Clinton did in 1992. What self-serving hypocrites.

I also understand why a lot of women voters think it would symbolically powerful and important to elect a moderately-intelligent, reasonably articulate, semi-compelling vision embodied in Sen. Clinton as the first Fem-American president.

subby: articulate, compelling; attractive, successful

Your semicolon has blown my mind.

Great headline subby. +1

Obama, my attractive and successful African-American.

fark the Clintons.

/Obama or nothing '08

He forgot clean.

Echoic: So now they're positive statements to make him the 'black candidate'. Good choice, Bill.

Good eye, Echoic.

Hey Bill? Ya miight wanna speak up a little louder they still can't hear you in Klan Kountry.

Does it look to anyone else like he's addressing an airport security line?

FTFA: He said voters "are entitled to have their choices respected" but concluded that Americans should choose a president based on qualifications and experience.

So, we should vote for Mitt Romney then?

That was might white of Ole Bill. Obama's not bad for a nagger apparently.

How cute, the cynicism and ignorant hatred of Hillary is astounding.

/Oh yeah, I went there.
//Hillary 08
///Obama if Hillary is defeated
////Anyone over creationist homophobic swine
////Slashies for the sake of slashiness

MacEnvy: I'm so sick of this argument from the Clintons. Not only does Obama have more ACTUAL legislative experience than Hillary Clinton, he also has WAY more experience than Bill Clinton did in 1992. What self-serving hypocrites

He's also as old as Bill was when he first ran for President.

They keep pushing the "inexperienced" button to off-set from the fact that Hillary is too darn old to become POTUS.

It's classic "Make their strength a weakness and make your weakness a strength" typa dirty politics.

Like the way the GOPhers turned their Chickenhawk AWOL Druggie 'Nam avoider into a Hero and Kerry the purple heart winning Veteran into a coward.

See also: Max Cleland.

The Clinton are deep into the Rovian playbook by this time and shame on anyone stupid enuff not to notice and be appalled by their lack of ethics or class here.

Obama '08

discount sushi: FTFA:He said voters "are entitled to have their choices respected" but concluded that Americans should choose a president based on qualifications and experience.

So I should go with Obama? He has more experiance, and better qualifications then than his wife.

Sorry, I'm not normally a grammar nazi, but that one just gets under my skin.

You might even call it a pet peeve.

/but not a rotsky

RKTeuthis: How cute, the cynicism and ignorant hatred of Hillary is astounding.

I totally agree with you, Hillary's cynicism and ignorant hatred is just awful. That's why I could never vote for her.

/What?

Ace Frehley's Ghost: You might even call it a pet peeve.

/but not a rotsky

Glad I didn't get a rotsky. I am bad with that one.

/Sniff sniff

quatchi: Hey Bill? Ya miight wanna speak up a little louder they still can't hear you in Klan Kountry.

Most racists are not Democrats, even in South Carolina.

RKTeuthis: How cute, the cynicism and ignorant hatred of Hillary is astounding.
Though I've never been impressed with Hillary (So I should vote for the wife of an ex-President? Makes as much sense as voting for the son of an ex-President!), I always thought the hatred of her was sheer over-reaction...

... until recently. Frankly, I completely understand it now. I'm completely disgusted at how Hillary has the gall to criticise Obama for stuff that not only is she guilty of, but generally even more guilty. (Obama hasn't cut off funding for the war? Well, at least he didn't vote for it....)

It's put me off to the point where I really can't bring myself to vote for her at all. Even if Obama runs as her VP, I wouldn't mind throwing a vote her way, but I'm not sure I would like that it technically go towards her tally.

FeedTheCollapse: It's put me off to the point where I really can't bring myself to vote for her at all. Even if Obama runs as her VP, I wouldn't mind throwing a vote her way, but I'm not sure I would like that it technically go towards her tally.

I'll be surprised if he does the McCain thing and publicly embraces her if she gets the nom (not necessarily hugs... you know what I mean), much less takes the VP spot.

The term "pitcher of warm spit" comes to mind. He'd be better off remaining in the Senate.

FeedTheCollapse:

... until recently. Frankly, I completely understand it now. I'm completely disgusted at how Hillary has the gall to criticise Obama for stuff that not only is she guilty of, but generally even more guilty. (Obama hasn't cut off funding for the war? Well, at least he didn't vote for it....)

Well, you have a start there, Obama is dirty; Senator Clinon is no angel either. I freely admit this, but "more guilty" and so forth? Puhlease. I think we've only just scratched the surface of Obama and already he stinks.

All the biatching about mudslinging etc etc is just whiny bullshiat. Politics is dirty and nobody is going to find out anything real about the candidates if everyone is all sunshine and smiles.

Duke it out so I can decide who the best prizefighter is, because it ain't gonna be nice in the general.

RKTeuthis: All the biatching about mudslinging etc etc is just whiny bullshiat. Politics is dirty and nobody is going to find out anything real about the candidates if everyone is all sunshine and smiles.
really? So you like all this back and forth bullshiat? I find it completely tedious and blame it entirely for why shiat doesn't get done in the country. Though not entirely her fault, Hillary brings too much baggage with her and pretty much guarantees that the "Dems Vs. Reps" slapfights continue for at least another 4 years.


Obama may not be my ideal candidate, but he at least seems capable of changing* the political discourse.

*speaking of change, Hillary is the very definition of status quo, where does she get off calling herself an Agent of Change? Because there will be a change in Presidents? Duh, that'll happen with or without her.

MacEnvy: He said voters "are entitled to have their choices respected" but concluded that Americans should choose a president based on qualifications and experience.

I'm so sick of this argument from the Clintons. Not only does Obama have more ACTUAL legislative experience than Hillary Clinton, he also has WAY more experience than Bill Clinton did in 1992. What self-serving hypocrites.

he has more experience as a douche IL politician and 3-1/2 years of running for president than a former gov?

generaltimmy: MacEnvy: He said voters "are entitled to have their choices respected" but concluded that Americans should choose a president based on qualifications and experience.

I'm so sick of this argument from the Clintons. Not only does Obama have more ACTUAL legislative experience than Hillary Clinton, he also has WAY more experience than Bill Clinton did in 1992. What self-serving hypocrites.

he has more experience as a douche IL politician and 3-1/2 years of running for president than a former gov?

When was Hillary governor? And of what state?

Hey, some of my best friends are articulate, compelling, attractive, and successful.

FeedTheCollapse: Though not entirely her fault, Hillary brings too much baggage with her and pretty much guarantees that the "Dems Vs. Reps" slapfights continue for at least another 4 years.

Obama may not be my ideal candidate, but he at least seems capable of changing* the political discourse.

Nope.

The political back-and-forth BS is going to continue no matter what, and like i said, once we get into the general, it's going to get ugly.

The partisan divide is still quite strong and you'll see that in the general, whomever gets nominated. If it's Obama and he isn't up to the nasty fight, he'll get attractively, compellingly, and articulately trounced.

Ace Frehley's Ghost: FeedTheCollapse: It's put me off to the point where I really can't bring myself to vote for her at all. Even if Obama runs as her VP, I wouldn't mind throwing a vote her way, but I'm not sure I would like that it technically go towards her tally.

I'll be surprised if he does the McCain thing and publicly embraces her if she gets the nom (not necessarily hugs... you know what I mean), much less takes the VP spot.

The term "pitcher of warm spit" comes to mind. He'd be better off remaining in the Senate.

4 more years in the senate will give his opponents lots of dirt to bury him alive. He won't have another chance to run for President.

RKTeuthis: How cute, the cynicism and ignorant hatred of Hillary Obama is astounding.

Well, you just wrote that it goes both ways. But if that is your idea of political discourse, I'll wager that your cynicism and apathy will get you whatever quasi-authoritarian government you deserve.

People like you are the same ones who would shrug and say "whatever" whenever the current administration pulled anything questionable, illegal, or outright stupid. Hey, it's just politics.

But then again, there are plenty of people like you, so you are probably correct when you say that it won't change. Hats off to you.

"The political back-and-forth BS is going to continue no matter what"

This type of thinking is part of the problem. I am sick of this crap. I am tired of lying down and accepting that this is the way things have to be. I know that people will disagree, but we have to work together to get things done. We need people in office that realize there has to be a little give and take.

As far as the experience is concerned, wouldn't being inexperienced be a bad thing if that was what got us in our current situation? I've heard it before and I will say it again - Cheney and Rumsfeld are some of the most experienced people in Washington and look what happened. It seems like experience just means your good at using the system to screw people over and work your own agenda while disregarding other ideas and concerns.

RKTeuthis, I can't believe how naive you are.

Clinton would be lucky to beat Romney if gets caught raping a evangelical christian 8 year old on stage at a debate. She has no chance against McCain.

But why not throw the election away yet again, that seems to be all democrats are good at these days.

OBAMA is the only hope for a better future and you all know it. That scares some of you, we understand... change is scary.

The truly ironic element to this whole Clinton vs. Obama thing is that, if they'd just played nice through the primaries, and whoever wound up winning the nomination chose the other as a VP, there's no way they could've been stopped in November.

Petty divisiveness is a zero-sum game.

Bored Horde: 4 more years in the senate will give his opponents lots of dirt to bury him alive. He won't have another chance to run for President.

None of which points to him being better off as a potential VP in a Hillary Clinton administration than staying in the Senate. Either way, he doesn't get to be President.

shift_DAWG: The truly ironic element to this whole Clinton vs. Obama thing is that, if they'd just played nice through the primaries, and whoever wound up winning the nomination chose the other as a VP, there's no way they could've been stopped in November.

Petty divisiveness is a zero-sum game.

I have to disagree with you on this. The Republicans are absolutely salivating over the idea of running against Hillary; she's got too much baggage.

shift_DAWG Quote 2008-01-26 02:21:40 PM
The truly ironic element to this whole Clinton vs. Obama thing is that, if they'd just played nice through the primaries, and whoever wound up winning the nomination chose the other as a VP, there's no way they could've been stopped in November.

Do you honestly think Clinton would ever accept a VP spot? Especially after havingt been the front-runner for the 08 election since... hell, 2000?

Bill Frist: shift_DAWG Quote 2008-01-26 02:21:40 PM
The truly ironic element to this whole Clinton vs. Obama thing is that, if they'd just played nice through the primaries, and whoever wound up winning the nomination chose the other as a VP, there's no way they could've been stopped in November.

Do you honestly think Clinton would ever accept a VP spot? Especially after havingt been the front-runner for the 08 election since... hell, 2000?

Plus Obama would have to worry about going to "meet Vince Foster."

Obama is such a attractive and successful African-American

Echoic: "I also understand why a lot of African-American voters think it would symbolically powerful and important to elect a brilliant, articulate, compelling vision embodied in Sen. Obama as the first African-American president."

So now they're positive statements to make him the 'black candidate'. Good choice, Bill.

I really didn't need to read beyond this. The Clintons are really annoying me with their tactics.

I don't agree with Obama on some of his issues, but I'm voting for him in the primary anyway. I'm sick and tired of all the partisan rhetoric and posturing going on, all this denigrating of the opposition and name calling.

I doubt that Obama would be able to bring everyone together no matter how hard he tries. Even if he wins, and I hope he does, there's 450 members of congress who are too used to fighting and too comfortable doing it to change. They've got a huge, vested interest in the status quo, and I doubt any single president could ever change everything overnight.

Hillary wants to keep fighting. The republicans hate her, and she them, and I just want it all to change. If things can be nudged just a little toward talking, I'm all for that.

SomeoneDumb: Echoic: "I also understand why a lot of African-American voters think it would symbolically powerful and important to elect a brilliant, articulate, compelling vision embodied in Sen. Obama as the first African-American president."

So now they're positive statements to make him the 'black candidate'. Good choice, Bill.

I really didn't need to read beyond this. The Clintons are really annoying me with their tactics.

I don't agree with Obama on some of his issues, but I'm voting for him in the primary anyway. I'm sick and tired of all the partisan rhetoric and posturing going on, all this denigrating of the opposition and name calling.

I doubt that Obama would be able to bring everyone together no matter how hard he tries. Even if he wins, and I hope he does, there's 450 members of congress who are too used to fighting and too comfortable doing it to change. They've got a huge, vested interest in the status quo, and I doubt any single president could ever change everything overnight.

Hillary wants to keep fighting. The republicans hate her, and she them, and I just want it all to change. If things can be nudged just a little toward talking, I'm all for that.

The power is set to make a seismic shift. The process began with the mid term elections, which handed the Republicans a firm refutation, which not surprising in their hubris was promptly ignored.

Naturally a quagmire state ensued with the filibuster blocking Pelosi from doing anything with her new position. Now the stage is set to put a democrat in the oval office to accompany the congress, which still will be potentially deadlocked through sheer republican denial of the will of the people.

Change will finally come when the powers to thwart that will is wrested from the republicans by seizing the seats up for grabs in the next election. The exodus will create an atmosphere more contusive to compromise and safe from the stagnation filibusters create.

The next president will have the ability to alter many things. I dearly hope this power is mot squandered and put to good use while it lasts. Allot of damage has to be mended and new ground has to be broke to bring prosperity back to the middle class.

OMG there's a black guy running for president, time for everyone to get offended!

Jennifer: The exodus will create an atmosphere more contusive to compromise and safe from the stagnation filibusters create.

I realize this was an honest mistake, but contusive should not be confused with conducive.

Contusive (adj.): the condition of being likely to injure or bruise

I think it will remain contusive to compromise if we re-elect monied interests to the White House and Congress. Everyone focuses on the presidential race, but you are right to point out that Congress is equally important- throw the lot out.

Jennifer: The power is set to make a seismic shift. The process began with the mid term elections, which handed the Republicans a firm refutation, which not surprising in their hubris was promptly ignored.

Wondered how long it would take you make a showing.

Bill's only doing it cause he's black!

/really surprised no ones made the statement clearly yet

Recall all Repuglikkkans: BWAAAA. There are plenty of racist Democrats out there. Look at everyone here who is playing the "black people should know better than to support Hillary" card. To act like black people should just support Obama because he is black and are to stupid to do otherwise is still racist, veiled however it may be.

Except that that isn't what people are doing. I'm sure there are some black people who support Obama just because he's black. But I haven't heard of anyone saying that blacks should support him for that reason. Certainly Obama himself hasn't said that. He's consciously avoided trying to run as the "black candidate".

My point is that most of the white racists already left the Democratic party and are now Republicans. They left because of the Southern Strategy.

Mnemia:
My point is that most of the white racists already left the Democratic party and are now Republicans. They left because of the Southern Strategy.

That's certainly not true in some parts of the US. I know farmers (representative of a large population) who would never consider voting republican since the democrats took such good care of them in the past. They also are not especially fond of the American Negro(tm), no matter how attractive and successful.

Having Hillary and Obama duke it out is the worst possible thing the Democrats could do to themselves, and by extension America. The differences between them are minor, so prospective Dem voters are mostly voting with their prejudices: against blacks, men, whites, and/or women.

It's amazing how fast I lost respect for Bill during this thing. He's shown his true colors, and they are sleaze.