A two party system with exclusionary insider dirty tricks during the primaries has no right to call itself a republic.

caucuses need to be scrapped for primaries in all states.

Two words... back fire. IF Ron had just been allowed to win one race, it might have been written off as a fluke by the media. But actively preventing Ron from winning a race is a HUGE story comparatively.

Gore?

SafariShane: Two words... back fire. IF Ron had just been allowed to win one race, it might have been written off as a fluke by the media. But actively preventing Ron from winning a race is a HUGE story comparatively.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. This is the way people expect it to work.

these are primaries. the states and parties get to run them any way they like.

come back in november if you want to complain about voting irregularities.

You know. I had no idea Paul placed 2nd in either Louisiana or Nevada till I checked here.

Been watching NBC in the mornings. Somehow Giuliani is still getting air time, despite his craptacular success so far.

You know, I think Ron Paul is a nutcase (takes protective stance)...butttt...Ron Paul is definitely not getting a fair shake in this election. Neither is Huckibee.

/ Just ask Romney. Oh wait, he will just give a neutral, non-committed answer that means nothing...

I think it's criminal the way the media has almost completely ignored Ron Paul. He's a bit nuts but it seems no one will even mention his name which is grossly unfair.

So is he going to run as a Libertarian after all of this?

he most definitely is.

Party Boy: You know. I had no idea Paul placed 2nd in either Louisiana or Nevada till I checked here.

"Uncommitted Pro-Life" won. McCain came in second, then Paul.

Maybe there's a reason nobody cares about the LA caucus.

dameron: Party Boy: You know. I had no idea Paul placed 2nd in either Louisiana or Nevada till I checked here.

"Uncommitted Pro-Life" won. McCain came in second, then Paul.

Maybe there's a reason nobody cares about the LA caucus.

ok.

/going to bed

This really shouldn't be too surprising: if it takes a little grey area to eliminate fringe candidates, so be it.

I'm guessing that Paul really doesn't offer enough to the players that want a candidate to continue current policy.

Paul really should have taken the hint long before this.

Boy, it took no time at all for the army of morons to descend on that comments section.

Failing_Junk 2008-01-24 10:55:19 PM
A two party system with exclusionary insider dirty tricks during the primaries has no right to call itself a republic.

This.

and.... I opposed it until this moment, but I say now that Paul should run independant.

Of course, Ron Paul supports can't even fathom their lunatic candidate losing everywhere. Even though they're the only ones in the country who give a rat's ass about the douche.

CravenMorehead: I think it's criminal the way the media has almost completely ignored Ron Paul

The MSM is first and foremost a corporate entity.

Ron Paul isn't corporately pre-approved like Hill and McCain.

Ergo when he's not being ignored furiously he's being treated like a joke.

Huckabee is also not pre-approved. He a real died in wool, snake handling, tongue speaking Christer with dreams of turning teh US into a theocracy.

The GOPher will take votes and money from fundies all day but they won't take 'em seriously.

On the left you have Hillary trying to roll over Obama with her massive and merciless machine while she remains on the sidelines keeping her hands clean. The MSM largely underplays this as well.

As a rule a lot of wot the MSM under-report or ignore is far more important that the dross they throw out there 23 and a half hours a day.

I guess Ron Paul. What do I win subby?

If you actually listen to some of Ron Paul's comments, and ideas, he's a great guy. He should be a Senator, easily. I can't see him being a President, though. He just lacks the ability to sway people to his cause, I think, although his cause is definitely worthy.

Before you write him off as a nutjob, just go to youtube and watch some of his answers on debates. Look at it objectively, and with a neutral opinion. Its shameful how McCain will start laughing at him while he's talking, even though he's speaking the truth.

/Not a Paulestinian
//Still thinks the guy is right

Failing_Junk 2008-01-24 10:55:19 PM
A two party system with exclusionary insider dirty tricks during the primaries has no right to call itself a republic.

You realize that Ron Paul has an "R" after his name, right?

This isn't the first time (this election season) that they've done things to purposely confuse the situation.

Frank N Stein: So is he going to run as a Libertarian after all of this?

He ran as an L in 88 and of course came out with nothing because the Big 2 would rather have 50/50 shot at winning each and every election in the country than 33/33/33, 25/etc.

Dem and Repub candidates are automatically on every ballot in the country in every election; anyone other 'party' has to round up tens/hundreds of thousands of signatures just to get their candidate's name on the ballot.

They (D/R) have been slowly and systematically passing laws thru legislatures across the country making it all but impossible for any 3rd party candidates to run in any election, anywhere.

I've seen paul supporters makes some outlandish claims.

but there isn't anything outlandish about suggesting that louisianna politics might be corrupt.

phillydrifter: Dem and Repub candidates are automatically on every ballot in the country in every election; anyone other 'party' has to round up tens/hundreds of thousands of signatures just to get their candidate's name on the ballot.

No. Shut up. (new window)

Christ. I'm all for voting for third-party candidates, but you are all a bunch of goddamn whiners. The Libertarians and the Greens and the American Nazi Party aren't being kept down by "the man," they're being kept down because nobody cares what they have to say besides a bunch of Internet nerds. Ross Perot is the only guy since the Bull Moose Party to actually get the average American to consider voting third party, and he failed because he was a bona-fide nutcase (read up on his thoughts on Obama and Muslims).

Desterion 2008-01-25 02:34:56 AM
Of course, Ron Paul supports can't even fathom their lunatic candidate losing everywhere. Even though they're the only ones in the country who give a rat's ass about the douche.


You seem unusually bitter.

Did a Ron Paul supporter touch you in a bad way when you were younger?

I hoped at one stage that the experience of the last few years (especially Florida 2000)would lead to some cleaning up of American election procedures but that was premature, I guess.

captainktainer: Ross Perot is the only guy since the Bull Moose Party to actually get the average American to consider voting third party, and he failed because he was a bona-fide nutcase (read up on his thoughts on Obama and Muslims).

I'm guessing his thoughts were something along the line of, "If a duck flies over your head, you can't shoot it with a stick?"

Libertarianism isn't a religion. It's a philosophy. It's pretty simple to realize that utopia is an impossibility. It is against the laws of nature. I think the founders of this country realized this, and while I believe they founded this country with Libertarian ideals in mind, they realized that every philosophy has its flaws.
Regardless of where you lean politically, I think it's safe to say that the people who have been writing the rules of our world are leading us down the wrong path. It's probably been done many civilizations throughout the course of time.....check History>World....yep, it has.
The world doesn't change overnight (except maybe with nuclear annihilation that we've wired ourselves up for).
The philosophy as a whole may be hard to swallow, but you have to wonder why the ideals that made this country what it is are now being suppressed and called nutty.

Ron has it right till you get to what we should do about the threat of radical extremism shortly to be followed by the sino/soviet threat rearing it's ugly head and funded by WAH and my gas guzzling ways and buying of foreign cheap junk!

Appeasement and ignoring the festering wound have already been tried many times and it only leads to something worse which leads to my objection to what Paul is not saying.

What do we do when ignoring the festering wound leads to severe trauma?
Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

David Duke

and you know who else liked David Duke

Ron Paul

Freaky huh

You know who else complained about rigged votes when he lost the national elections...

The media could be in for a caught with their pants down moment on Super Tuesday. Whatever your thoughts on Ron Paul might be he sure has proven to be more resilient than many credited him for. If he pulls a major upset or series of significant showings the media will have to scramble for excuses as to why they marginalized him.

It will be like the embarrassment they suffered after their New Hampshire predictions only magnified ten fold. Who knows maybe something good will come out of this. Perhaps the balance will be skewed back to where the media covers events rather than decides them.

Larofeticus: I've seen paul supporters makes some outlandish claims.

but there isn't anything outlandish about suggesting that louisianna politics might be corrupt.

How very full of WIN of you, sir. This comment made my morning with its truthiness. :-)

I'm usually the last one to believe allegations of systemic voter fraud, because they're raised just about every election by a bunch of morons who don't know how to register to vote. That said, the Paul people are nothing if not incredibly well-organized, their complaints that the voter registration rolls were inaccurate seem a lot more credible.

Rethorn: Before you write him off as a nutjob, just go to youtube and watch some of his answers on debates.


I will say that the contrast between him and the other Republican candidates on Iraq is HUGE. However, that's pretty much where my interest in him ends.

Libertarianism, like Communism, sounds good on paper, but unworkable (outside a few portions) when applied to real life.

FeedTheCollapse: Libertarianism, like Communism, sounds good on paper, but unworkable (outside a few portions) when applied to real life.

You mean like, how it was outlined in, whatsitcalled...the Constitution? Yeah, what were those silly founding fathers thinking.

It IS promising to see this being reported on MSM ABC's web site, though.

Jennifer: Yep, despite his popularity I think Paul has a good chance of scoring a major win on Super Tuesday.
Why? Look at the results so far
Iowa, NH, MI, NV, SC. All provided heavy media coverage and drove out the vote in a big way. Paul did decent but nowhere near the top two.
Nevada, Louisiana, almost no media coverage, no attempt to really drive out the vote. Paul did very well, he could have won Nevada if it wasn't for the massive Mormon showup (about 7% of the state population 25% of the vote).

It was a caucus, subby.

phillydrifter: It IS promising to see this being reported on MSM ABC's web site, though.

They aren't giving the full details.

From what I've gathered, Paul supporters made a strong showing, at least in some parts of the state. The other candidates' supporters apparently combined forces, in the form of a "Pro Life / Pro Family" ticket. Regardless of who really won, what happened down there sounds pretty farking retarded.

phillydrifter: FeedTheCollapse: Libertarianism, like Communism, sounds good on paper, but unworkable (outside a few portions) when applied to real life.

You mean like, how it was outlined in, whatsitcalled...the Constitution? Yeah, what were those silly founding fathers thinking.

Um, I don't think that people who owned slaves can be called libertarians. That's just me, though. No True Scotsman and all.

FeedTheCollapse: Libertarianism, like Communism, sounds good on paper, but unworkable (outside a few portions) when applied to real life.

Or Democracy.

Tell any hardcore Libertarian that Ron Paul is a Libertarian.

Non-issue. Rules don't matter if you really dislike a candidate.

Big Daddy?

SafariShane: Two words... back fire. IF Ron had just been allowed to win one race, it might have been written off as a fluke by the media. But actively preventing Ron from winning a race is a HUGE story comparatively.

Only if news outlets bother to report it.

Q314: Libertarianism isn't a religion. It's a philosophy. It's pretty simple to realize that utopia is an impossibility. It is against the laws of nature. I think the founders of this country realized this, and while I believe they founded this country with Libertarian ideals in mind, they realized that every philosophy has its flaws.
Regardless of where you lean politically, I think it's safe to say that the people who have been writing the rules of our world are leading us down the wrong path. It's probably been done many civilizations throughout the course of time.....check History>World....yep, it has.
The world doesn't change overnight (except maybe with nuclear annihilation that we've wired ourselves up for).
The philosophy as a whole may be hard to swallow, but you have to wonder why the ideals that made this country what it is are now being suppressed and called nutty.

We have never really tried any of the governments that you might see from clicking that History tab. We really all live in a Plutocracy no matter what skin they place on the outside of it.

quatchi: The MSM is first and foremost a corporate entity.

Ron Paul isn't corporately pre-approved like Hill and McCain.

Ergo when he's not being ignored furiously he's being treated like a joke.

I am pretty sure that ABC is part of the MSM.

Giulianis people were even on the Profamily/prolife ticket from what I hear.
And when people hear that, they laugh. And gasp something that sounds like "Giuliani... pro...life... ahhhhhhhhhh"

I dont get the joke.

If you have a problem with the news coverage, take it up with the Editor in Chief.

I teach a persuasive unit to my 10th Graders.
In the guides, they contrast the three types of persuasive appeal, and their respective appeals:

Logical (facts,figures,1+1=2) -- strongest argument, low popular appeal. No one likes listening to drawn out explanations that have to be thought about.

Ethical (social norms, concepts of "justice", empathetic or sympathetic arguments, simplified solutions to complex problems that sound like "the right thing to do") -- weaker argument, more popular because it strikes a moral chord with large groups.

Emotional (playing on biases, cause and effect, problem/solution, extremes and hyperbole) -- weakest argument, biggest popular appeal. People like to rally around a common cause in response to a common threat. Fear, Anger, Assertion and freedom from oppression are common themes.

Ron Paul's camp isn't winning hearts and minds because he insists on making sense and not stooping to rhetorical gimmicks.

That's actually why I'm voting for him!

Looking at the Wikipedia page, it seems the whole process is ridiculous.

This is how the Paulistinians put it:
Paul lined up his delegates by Jan 10.
Then the state party comes in and goes, 'Oops, you have until the 12th!'

The timing of this change is important. If they announced this in July, say, no biggie. If they announce it at 11:30pm on January 9, big problem.

Also, it seems the 'so when wuz you a Republican?' deadline was changed a couple times.

There's only 11 places in the state to vote in these caucuses. The official results haven't been released.

FWIW, it seems in the February 9 primary, the delegates only have to vote for the primary winner if he wins a majority of the votes. The party honchos have called it 'just a beauty contest.'

Conclusion: Louisiana's 40 delegates are going to whoever the party honchos want them to go to.

I think Paul's a nutcase, but it seems he was robbed in this one.