That's funny, the U.S. feels the same way about Castro.

/The U.S. just tried harder to "fix" that situation.

This is one of those stories that just has assholes all around.

/end the embargo

i've got nothing against cuba...or castro.

the "u.s." needs to get its collective head out of its ass.

"That is the time when Cuba would be ready to dialogue on the basis of mutual respect, without the arrogance that has always colored the U.S. position,"

Cuba is so cute, all thinking that the ball is really in their court.

There will be no normalized relations between Cuba and the US while Castro breathes. 5 minutes after Castro dies, no problem, and it won't matter who is president. It never has.

If Castro can hold out until January '09, or at least until the general election and then die, then they can say whatever they want when they beg to be let back into our good graces. That is just a matter of timing.

Bauer: i've got nothing against cuba...or castro.

the "u.s." needs to get its collective head out of its ass.

Your post doesn't offer much of a surprise.

fishrockcarving: There will be no normalized relations between Cuba and the US while Castro breathes. 5 minutes after Castro dies, no problem, and it won't matter who is president.

This. Seriously, the MOMENT Castro's body gets the dirt tossed on it, you'll be buying Cuban cigars at low prices.

I'm already drawing up plans for Havanna's newest mobster run casino.

clancifer 2008-01-17 11:05:18 PM
Bauer: i've got nothing against cuba...or castro.

the "u.s." needs to get its collective head out of its ass.

Your post doesn't offer much of a surprise.

call me mr. consistant, then.

-i don't believe in enemies.

Bauer: -i don't believe in enemies.

Now *that* is funny.

I wish I could just ignore Bush until January, too.

I have a feeling that several very powerful lobbies are involved.

The sugar industry, and gaming industry come to mind.

Cuba for years, and years, was THE place to go on vacation if you wanted to gamble, or party.

Seriously, if you live in Florida for example, which would you rather go to, an island in the Carribean that's only 90 miles away, with beaches and blue waters, or fly 3000 miles to some crappy, contrived, place in a desert, that's only a few miles from Death Valley?

The very powerful gaming industry in Vegas, would not be at all happy.

Thank, President Bush, for losing the high ground for us.

TommyymmoT: I have a feeling that several very powerful lobbies are involved.

The sugar industry, and gaming industry come to mind.

Cuba for years, and years, was THE place to go on vacation if you wanted to gamble, or party.

Seriously, if you live in Florida for example, which would you rather go to, an island in the Carribean that's only 90 miles away, with beaches and blue waters, or fly 3000 miles to some crappy, contrived, place in a desert, that's only a few miles from Death Valley?

The very powerful gaming industry in Vegas, would not be at all happy.

Why? They'll be the ones with the money building the new $10B casinos and resorts in Havana.

My favorite is that in the name of freedom the US government restricts the freedom of travel and association of its own citizens to spite Cuba. Yay, freedom.

WorldCitizen: My favorite is that in the name of freedom the US government restricts the freedom of travel and association of its own citizens to spite Cuba. Yay, freedom.

That is pre 9/11 thinking citizen. Teh terrerists hated yur freedumbs therefore they were revoked to protect you. Amerika has always been at war with Eastasia Cuba!

Yeah, cause Cuba loved us under Kennedy and Nixon and Carter and Reagan...
Especially Kennedy.

/wait, what?

Yes, Cuba, but does anyone feel that maybe Saudi Arabia has no problems dealing with Bush? Did we already forget the news from earlier this week? Hello?
'The rest of planet Earth' is bigger than subby thinks.

AirForceVet: Thank, President Bush, for losing the high ground for us.

Yeah, cause our prisons weren't packed with minorities and there wasn't torture under Kennedy and Nixon and Carter and Reagan...

/wait, what?

If anyone thinks horrific actions such as water boarding and, oh my god, sleep deprivation weren't present before GW's administration you're either naive or full of shiat.

/Not saying it's right
//Just Saying

fishrockcarving: Cuba is so cute, all thinking that the ball is really in their court.

There will be no normalized relations between Cuba and the US while Castro breathes. 5 minutes after Castro dies, no problem, and it won't matter who is president. It never has.

Nah I think Fidel's brother Raul will call up Hugo Chavez to provide troops to help keep the status quo.

WorldCitizen: My favorite is that in the name of freedom the US government restricts the freedom of travel and association of its own citizens to spite Cuba. Yay, freedom.

By Jove, I think you might be getting it. It's been a long, long time since the United States Government gave a shiat about your freedom, or indeed answered to the American people in anything but the more superficial way; every few years you pick whose face you want to look at a few times a day for the next 4-8 years, and in between them you get to choose which group of lobbyists' shiatty ideas you least want imposed on you by voting for the empty suit they didn't buy off.

/would have joined a revolution to keep Slick Willy in the big boy seat though, despite hailing from up north
//At least he was personable
///America's first black president FTW!

Nestea Plunge: Cuba is only hated by Righties as a default in order to still say they're winning against communism. We need to normalize relations so all these damned Cubans will quit showing up in Florida.

That, and expatriate Cubans give the GOP the semblance of being something other than a club for pissed off white dudes -- political wilderness, let me show you it.

JoJoTheIdiotMonkeyBoy: This. Seriously, the MOMENT Castro's body gets the dirt tossed on it, you'll be buying Cuban cigars at low prices.

Why should our foreign policy be dictated by a vendetta against their leader?

I never understood our policy with Cuba. Maybe during the cold war there was a reason. Now its seems just about the Florida vote and not ticking off the Cubans there.

We deal with communist countries that drove tanks over their students during a freedom movement (China). We can;t wait to turn them into a super power. Yet we got all hung up on one guy in a nation of a couple of million?

Personally I think we only play into dictators hands. If we wanted to tip over Castro cart, we should not have given him a scape goat to point to all these years. Let the world in. If we were open and exchanging tourists/business, we're not helping Castro we're helping Cubans to see what a jack ass they have in power. Same with North Korea. These kind of people want us to shun them. It works for them. They don't want the outside word coming in. Instead the USA acts like some prissy little teenaged girl who won't talk to Trudy.

America's first black president FTW!

Bill's not black! Man I hate that shiat. I'm from Detroit and that honky wouldn't last ten minutes south of eight mile.

/not black either! but DAMN! cut it out people.

Dumbear: Yes, Cuba, but does anyone feel that maybe Saudi Arabia has no problems dealing with Bush?

Saudi Arabia basically told Bush to fark off when he asked them to increase oil production to help out the US economy. Or does "we'll increase production when the market justifies it" sound like they're dealing with Bush to you?

Nestea Plunge: GOP "foreign policy" usually consists of playground bullshiat. A lot of 'neener neener neener' in public and a refusal to talk in private. Farking childish, but what do you expect?

This.

Bush's little war of words with Iran just shows on ineffective he is as a leader. Nothing says 'superpower' like some pathetic lame duck who keeps screeching against Iran while trying to orchestrate something to go to war over. Republicans either have the smallest dicks in the world or are just pathetically retarded....well, replace the 'or' with 'and.'

equilibrium:

Why should our foreign policy be dictated by a vendetta against their leader Dictator?







Because The United States loves a man in uniform.

Olympus Mons: They don't want the outside word coming in. Instead the USA acts like some prissy little teenaged girl who won't talk to Trudy.

I wouldn't talk to Trudy either. I heard she's a real biatch.

Olympus Mons: Now its seems just about the Florida vote and not ticking off the Cubans there.

It's also a matter of pride I think. Not only did Castro boot out a bunch of American businesses when he took power (who did nothing but screw his people), but he also sided with the soviets (granted this was after the US told him to go fark himself for kicking out said American businesses), and he has survived several assassination attempts (I think the last count was 5? and one involved an exploding cigar IIRC). Add in the fact that he's outlived Reagan, Ford, Nixon, Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ (not to mention a good chance he may outlive Bush the First) and it's not hard to figure out why American politicians aren't all that eager to drop the embargo with him still in power.

Murkanen: Olympus Mons: Now its seems just about the Florida vote and not ticking off the Cubans there.

It's also a matter of pride I think. Not only did Castro boot out a bunch of American businesses when he took power (who did nothing but screw his people), but he also sided with the soviets (granted this was after the US told him to go fark himself for kicking out said American businesses), and he has survived several assassination attempts (I think the last count was 5? and one involved an exploding cigar IIRC). Add in the fact that he's outlived Reagan, Ford, Nixon, Eisenhower, JFK and LBJ (not to mention a good chance he may outlive Bush the First) and it's not hard to figure out why American politicians aren't all that eager to drop the embargo with him still in power.

Pride goeth before a fall. Realistically we're continuing a failed policy begun so long ago that most Americans don't have a clue about it. I've heard multiple explanations why there was an embargo on Cuba over my lifetime. Still, we're trading with countries just as undesirable and / or dangerous (or moreso) than Cuba. I'll tell you what, especially with the USSR defunct, this embargo is utterly pointless.

I wouldn't bother engaging the US right now either if I were a foreign power. Lame duck president in his final throes, scandal-ridden administration, with policies that will soon be changed. What's the farking point of bothering?

Churchill2004:
/end the embargo

second
oh and good headline

I appluad cuba for saying what the rest of the world is thinking.

If only the rest of the world would follow Cuba's lead.

// Can't believe I just wrote that.

In related news I refuse to converse with the Russian government until Putin is out of office.

TFA: "That is the time when Cuba would be ready to dialogue on the basis of mutual respect, without the arrogance that has always colored the U.S. position,"

fishrockcarving:...If Castro can hold out until January '09, or at least until the general election and then die, then they can say whatever they want when they beg to be let back into our good graces. That is just a matter of timing.


Were you trying to prove that point?

Guntram Shatterhand
Nestea Plunge: GOP "foreign policy" usually consists of playground bullshiat. A lot of 'neener neener neener' in public and a refusal to talk in private. Farking childish, but what do you expect?

This.

Bush's little war of words with Iran just shows on ineffective he is as a leader. Nothing says 'superpower' like some pathetic lame duck who keeps screeching against Iran while trying to orchestrate something to go to war over. Republicans either have the smallest dicks in the world or are just pathetically retarded....well, replace the 'or' with 'and.'

And trolls are the lonliest people. Find a friend, will ya?

Our relations with Cuba are going to largely depend on who happens to be in the Oval Office when Fidel dies. The guy we want is the guy that can talk some concessions out of Raul and open up actually fair elections without causing a full-on revolution.

Question is who that's going to be.

Choo-Choo Bear: AirForceVet: Thank, President Bush, for losing the high ground for us.

Yeah, cause our prisons weren't packed with minorities and there wasn't torture under Kennedy and Nixon and Carter and Reagan...

/wait, what?

Yeah, right dude. I don't recall past administration officials defending torture to the nation and the world under those Presidents, much less the President himself saying it's AOK.

/Rationalizations aren't good references, dumbass.

inglixthemad: Realistically we're continuing a failed policy begun so long ago that most Americans don't have a clue about it. I've heard multiple explanations why there was an embargo on Cuba over my lifetime.

I don't agree with the embargo, but it's been pounded into the heads of Americans for so long that Castro=evil that any attempt at a rational look at either Cuba or the embargo after Castro managed to thumb his nose at 40 years worth of American would be political suicide. It's retarded on every imaginable scale, but so are a lot of things when it comes to the general public's view on damn near everything.

Not unexpected at all.

/very good headline
//wish we could do the same thing

That should have been American Presidents in my previous addition to the thread.

Cosmo Approves!

Bay of Pigs = Kennedy = Democrat

But hey, forget history and keep your lowbrow "Blame Bush" fallacy alive if it helps you sleep at night.

TommyymmoT: Cuba for years, and years, was THE place to go on vacation if you wanted to gamble, or party.

Great. Right. Somehow it never seems to cross anyone's mind that if Batista's Cuba had been THE place for, you know, actual Cubans to live, then no one would ever have listened to Castro in the first place.

/No fan of Castro
//Nor george w. bush
///A plague o' both their houses

pvd021: If only the rest of the world would follow Cuba's lead.

// Can't believe I just wrote that.

The rest of the world is actually "following Cuba" as it were. There is a thing called institutional memory however. America's money is being abandoned, trade and tourism is sinking like a stone, there's an impending economic disaster on America's horizon that will effect the world, but not as much as it once would.

America is being written out of world trade slowly. It offers nothing substantial besides well education humans, and it has not been doing that very well either so. The US's days of influence are coming to an end.

AirForceVet: dumbass.

Ah. An insult. The first refuge of the incompetent.

AirForceVet: I don't recall past administration officials defending torture to the nation and the world under those Presidents, much less the President himself saying it's AOK.

That may be correct with regard to your recollection, but if you believe that means it didn't happen, you should reflect your insults at yourself.

Here is one source:

In 1996 President Clinton's Intelligence Oversight Board admitted that US-produced training materials condoned "execution of guerrillas, extortion, physical abuse, coercion and false imprisonment".

...an admission that the embrace of torture by US officials has been integral to US foreign policy since the Vietnam war...

...It's a history exhaustively documented in an avalanche of books, declassified documents, CIA training manuals, court records and truth commissions.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1664174,00.html

There are hundreds of sources.

If you really want to learn what has been going on for decades, instead of living some myopic fantasy, start with:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=torture+in+u.s.+history&btnG=Google+Search

MilesTeg: Bay of Pigs = Kennedy = Democrat

But hey, forget history and keep your lowbrow "Blame Bush" fallacy alive if it helps you sleep at night.

Iraq = george w. bush = Publican

But hey, forget history and keep your lowbrow "Blame Clinton" fallacy alive if it helps you sleep at night.

FAIL.

The worst recent incident in crap relations had to be that "freedom slogan screen" or whatever it was called at the Cuban US embassy. The thoughts of the Bush administration putting together a list of great quotes from real freedom fighters and civil rights heroes their party forefathers probably put on a secret service hitlist sickened me.

MilesTeg Quote 2008-01-18 11:58:46 AM
Bay of Pigs = Kennedy = Democrat

But hey, forget history and keep your lowbrow "Blame Bush" fallacy alive if it helps you sleep at night.


bay of pigs != The history of US/Cuban relations != anything to do with the thread == retarded off point post

Phil Moskowitz: The rest of the world is actually "following Cuba" as it were. There is a thing called institutional memory however. America's money is being abandoned, trade and tourism is sinking like a stone, there's an impending economic disaster on America's horizon that will effect the world, but not as much as it once would.

America is being written out of world trade slowly. It offers nothing substantial besides well education humans, and it has not been doing that very well either so. The US's days of influence are coming to an end.

As for tourism, with the dollar as weak as it is, we should have people falling over themselves to visit the US. The problem is that travel restrictions are so tight, no one wants to bother. In most countries, you have to go to the US Embassy in your country to get a tourist visa, and the process takes over a month, and is generally a PITA.