Those white boys sure know their way around the Jazz!

Greatest? Really??

Seventy years ago today, the greatest concert in jazz history took place at Carnegie Hall

Um, except for every "Amateur Night" at the Apollo.

I would make some comment about white jazz musicians stealing the thunder of the black musicians who were generally doing it first but nobody cares.

TerpLndyHpr: I would make some comment about white jazz musicians stealing the thunder of the black musicians who were generally doing it first but nobody cares.

Nobody? As a white boy from the Mexican state of Texas, I can say that I do. And when I first clicked this link, I saw a white guy and said "BS. Best Jazz my ass"

cambie: Nobody? As a white boy from the Mexican state of Texas, I can say that I do. And when I first clicked this link, I saw a white guy and said "BS. Best Jazz my ass"

Thanks for caring. Some people just don't bother to research the history of jazz which is how they end up thinking that Benny Goodman taught the world to "swing, swing, swing".

/As a swing dancer, I actually hate that song.

Insert "That's Racist" kid here.

Benny Goodman grew up dirt poor in Chicago and learned to play clarinet in Jane Addams' Hull House programs; he was the first white bandleader to hire black musicians (Teddy Wilson, Lionel Hampton), thus expanding the exposure of jazz to many other musicians (because he could get the better gigs and the radio exposure); and was universally admired for his music, by black and white musicians alike.

Benny Goodman? "Great concert in jazz history"? Really, smitty?



My John Coltrane. Let me show it to you.

cerote: Insert "That's Racist" kid here.

Benny Goodman grew up dirt poor in Chicago and learned to play clarinet in Jane Addams' Hull House programs; he was the first white bandleader to hire black musicians (Teddy Wilson, Lionel Hampton), thus expanding the exposure of jazz to many other musicians (because he could get the better gigs and the radio exposure); and was universally admired for his music, by black and white musicians alike.

The point isn't that he happened to be the first to hire black musicians. The point is that he got recognition for something that black musicians had been doing first. If people really wanted good swing back then, they weren't heading to Carnegie Hall. They headed to Harlem.

TerpLndyHpr: The point isn't that he happened to be the first to hire black musicians. The point is that he got recognition for something that black musicians had been doing first. If people really wanted good swing back then, they weren't heading to Carnegie Hall. They headed to Harlem.

That's right. Let's forget the fact that Big Band jazz is different than Dixieland jazz, cool jazz, experimental jazz, and represents a fusion of mostly upper-class white orchestral music with the new jazz movements in the black communities. Let's also forget how many cultural mavens in the 30's and 40's thought jazz wasn't fit for white people.

God forbid we let white and black cultural backgrounds mix and fuse. We should have let only black people play and experiment with jazz. Goodman was totally out of line in bringing white people into jazz.

The 17-year-old trombonist in me would come out and kick your ass, but he was too busy then starting his county's first high school jazz band to bother.

palladiate: That's right. Let's forget the fact that Big Band jazz is different than Dixieland jazz, cool jazz, experimental jazz, and represents a fusion of mostly upper-class white orchestral music with the new jazz movements in the black communities. Let's also forget how many cultural mavens in the 30's and 40's thought jazz wasn't fit for white people.

God forbid we let white and black cultural backgrounds mix and fuse. We should have let only black people play and experiment with jazz. Goodman was totally out of line in bringing white people into jazz.

The 17-year-old trombonist in me would come out and kick your ass, but he was too busy then starting his county's first high school jazz band to bother.

Hey now, cool down. I know perfectly well about all the different types of jazz. My school offers a lovely Survey of African-American music with and extremely knowledgeable teacher.

I never said that white people couldn't play jazz. I merely had a tiff with the subby saying that Goodman taught the world how to swing at Carnegie Hall when swing was already established in Harlem. And heaven forbid a white person actually go to Harlem for music, because they often did.

videos that consist of footage being constantly interrupted by interviews totally fail. is there no existing footage of charlie christian?

ahem (new window)

Suck it, Goodman

I've got no beef with Goodman, and I'm not going to jump on the bash whitey bandwagon, but here's my pick:

Who gives a flying fark what color his skin was, Benny Goodman made awesome music. Gene Krupa rocked, and Charlie Christian will always be one of the greatest guitar players of all time in my book.

/my two cents
//also love Ellington, Basie and lots more besides...

What is this, Superlative Theater?

Three pints of Damn with a chaser of Hell Blast!

Greatest = best. Hells no.
Greatest = largest at the time. Kthxbai.

I prefer Thelonious Monk and Coltrane Live at Carnagie myself.

Who the fark cares what color he was? Yeah, the black guys were doing it first, but Benny helped bring it out of the underground and into the main stream. He was a good musician, a good band director, and it doesn't matter that he was white. He could've been green and it wouldn't have changed the quality of the music, or the impact it had in helping black musicians get recognition for their talent.

/My .02
//Coltrane is better

HappyHarryHardOn: Suck it, Goodman

Miles Davis seems to be possessed by the devil in that album. It is so good.

It's stupid to get into arguments over "the greatest concert in jazz history." Don't be idiots.

If you're talking about greatest Benny Goodman concert, I wold say that the August date in '35 at the Palomar Ballroom in LA was the moment things really turned around. The whole tour was a failure up until that point.

Jazz is a mindset, an approach. Not a genre.

The term "best" is the tinfoil hat jazz snobs use to keep biatches Brew out of their brainwaves.

By "greatest benny goodman concert," I meant "most notable."

cerote: Benny Goodman grew up dirt poor in Chicago and learned to play clarinet in Jane Addams' Hull House programs; he was the first white bandleader to hire black musicians (Teddy Wilson, Lionel Hampton), thus expanding the exposure of jazz to many other musicians (because he could get the better gigs and the radio exposure); and was universally admired for his music, by black and white musicians alike.

QFT!

While I might not say Greatest, I might say most important.

/Big band and nostalgia radio host for many years

No mention of Gene K. during the "Swing, Swing, Swing" portion of the clip = cockpunch for the director

TerpLndyHpr Some people just don't bother to research the history of jazz which is how they end up thinking that Benny Goodman taught the world to "swing, swing, swing".

/As a swing dancer, I actually hate that song.

Uh, the song is "Sing, Sing, Sing", not "Swing, Swing, Swing."

The Goodman concert was epochal, and yes, probably the most important (as in significant) jazz concert ever.

2and4: No mention of Gene K. during the "Swing, Swing, Swing" portion of the clip = cockpunch for the director

Yes, I meant "Sing Sing Sing"

Bufu: "Sing, Sing, Sing", not "Swing, Swing, Swing."

I think subby was being punny.

2and4, see above re: Sing, Sing, Sing.

The Carnegie rendition of Swing, Swing, Swing is astounding, I've listened to it dozens and dozens of times...

I think it's a waste of time to argue about superlatives when talking about something so subjective, and it's also not useful to get into arguing about white vs. black.

Check out this site and have fun reading about and listening to examples of early jazz: http://www.redhotjazz.com (new window)

chickyraptor: Check out this site and have fun reading about and listening to examples of early jazz: http://www.redhotjazz.com (new window)

that site does indeed rule. this one is cool too, you can listen to/download tons of cylinders:

http://cylinders.library.ucsb.edu/index.php

Thanks Subby... Appreciated hearing the piano solo.
I'll look for a recording of the concert.
In the meantime, there's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mJ4dpNal_k

Say what you will about white appropriation of black styles (but then, BG actually *hired* Fletcher Henderson), the 30s-40s "swing era" was as close as America ever got to having jazz and the popular-music-mainstream intersecting.

And, oh, what potholes the big band players surmounted, all in stride: live-to-mono recordings, with only a handful of microphones; touring via bus or car (or just maybe train), away from home months on end, when "the road" wasn't loaded with 24-hour services.

Then again, if you were a big band fan, you might hear your favorite band broadcasting--live!---several nights a week.

My hat's off to Benny Goodman; I think Artie Shaw was as good as he, but the two were as good as any of the symphony clarinet players, at were creative soloists as well.

OK, enough nostalgia for a life I never lived. "Nostalgia isn't what it used to be."


--KM

oops!


"at" = "and"

Yeah, ... Massey Hall, the JAPT series, Dizzy One Night in Washington, Miles at the Fillmore, but here are my top picks.



//// not a fan of Live at Jimmy's

I would say the whole deal with him being white is moot considering that black media is too busy focusing on gansta rap and other social poison.

I don't understand why most blacks don't like blues or jazz anymore.