Of course they do. I just don't see how one can rationalize that graph into indicating that.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Where are the thousands of Bushies who railed last election about how it was moronic to vote just because you wanted "Anyone but Bush?" Suddenly it's OK to vote for "Anyone but Hillary?"

If she gets nominated, and looks like winning, I am going to lay in a large supply of paper towels. It is going to get messy with so many people's heads asploding.

I'm holding to my original odds so far, I'm giving the Democrats a 70% chance. It'd be even higher if they didn't have a history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. But anything can happen.

If the Democrats lose, they may as well just disband the party.

If Obama gets the nomination, and chooses an independent or republican as his running mate (Paul, Bloomberg, etc.), he will be unstoppable and he will make history.

thamike: If Obama gets the nomination, and chooses an independent or republican as his running mate (Paul, Bloomberg, etc.), he will be unstoppable and he will make history.

Unstoppable? If by "unstoppable" you mean he'd grind his opposition into a fine paste, then yes. I believe you're correct.

Molavian: Unstoppable? If by "unstoppable" you mean he'd grind his opposition into a fine paste, then yes. I believe you're correct.

Wouldn't it be great? He's already vaguely alluded to an openness to such an idea, once or twice.

read the fine print: poll done by that sterling moonie paper, the washington times. this paper makes the wsj look liberal.

I've always said:

If Hillary is nominated, the Republicans keep the White House

Tatsuma: I've always said:

If Hillary is nominated, the Republicans keep the White House

fark it, if Hillary wins, the Republicans have kept the White House.

SilentStrider: fark it, if Hillary wins, the Republicans have kept the White House.

Another point for the "Both parties are really one and the same with very small differences"

Tatsuma: Another point for the "Both parties are really one and the same with very small differences"

No, another point for the "Hillary is a DINO" contingent.

oldebayer: Suddenly it's OK to vote for "Anyone but Hillary?"

This has always been ok.

oldebayer: If she gets nominated, and looks like winning, I am going to lay in a large supply of paper towels.

As soon as the market opens tomorrow, I'm going to put my life savings into Kleenex futures.

With all the conservative "Hillary is unelectable/ugly/a biatch" masturbation going on before the election and all of the conservative crying that will take place after the election, this investment will make me a rich man.

The GOP couldn't find a good candidate this year if they tried.

To be president, you must get your base, and the moderates of both party. Hillary may win the democratic nomination. But she will not get a super-majority of those who identify themselves with the Democrats.

I for one, will have a very hard time voting for her-based on her policies, her personality and above all I don't want my country history book to begin looking like a battle between two families.
Bush-clinton-clinton-bush-bush... enough.

Even if she gets her parties nod, she will not get the moderates of the Republicans nor the independent. If they can character assassinate a war hero like John Kerry, she doesn't have after years of being hit by the mud machine of her national opponents.

Obama is the ONE guy who can bring us all to the table again. Even Republicans can't refute that. In fact, Obama is known to work with Repblicans like McCaine

submitter: GOP still has a real shot at holding on to the White House

Of course they do, if the Democrats are stupid enough to nominate Hillary.

Would be pretty much the only thing the Dems could do to fark up a sure thing. Either Edwards or Obama would win easily. But Hillary would bring out the Republican base (and independents) in droves just to vote against her. And since Hillary is widely disliked even among some quarters of her own party, I suspect that many Democrats would stay home on election day.

grxymkjbn: Tatsuma: Another point for the "Both parties are really one and the same with very small differences"

No, another point for the "Hillary is a DINO" contingent.

Dame In Name Only?

guesser: after McCain loses to Romney

What makes you think this has a chance at happening?

Basically, McCain will win the nomination, since he's the best chance the Reps have against any Dem. Giuliani is too liberal, and Romney's deluded if he thinks he is getting the nom. The fact people were initially excited about Fred freaking Thompson should show you how desperate they are. So they'll nominate McCain as the least bad option. If they and the idiot press manage to goad the Dems into nominating Hilary then that is how the headline comes true. McCain alone, could defeat Hilary alone.

All other Reps lose to all other Dems.

Doc Daneeka: Would be pretty much the only thing the Dems could do to fark up a sure thing. Either Edwards or Obama would win easily.

This is what is known as "concern trolling" - people who are not Democrats trying to offer Democrats a poison apple. In 2004, the Republicans told the Democrats how nominating Howard Dean would be tragedy.

Darth_Lukecash: If they can character assassinate a war hero like John Kerry, she doesn't have after years of being hit by the mud machine of her national opponents.

The GOP has been smearing Hillary Clinton since 1992 with every possible angle they can think of - they've accused her of being a murderer, a lesbian, a Communist, an anti-Semite, a megalomaniac, and a participant in a sham marriage - none of the bullshiat has ever stuck as the American public still LOVED the Clintons after Bill left office. Dredging up the same of shiat won't resonate as it did with John Kerry.

Someone misplace the Unlikely tag?

Hillary is Bush 2.0.

Which is why she'll narrowly crank out a win, 51%-49% against whoever the poor Republican nominee is.

People will vote for her based on the fact that they'd "like to go have a cry with her".

Opiate of the Lasses: Basically, McCain will win the nomination, since he's the best chance the Reps have against any Dem.

I have to ask why. Name recognition? He's insane. 100 years in Iraq? 'Inevitable' war with Iran? What makes him so electable?

Why hasn't his very pro-war stance been publicized more?

You know who else cried and became president?

Polls like this are pretty useless.

Consider that I've seen other recent polls where, when asked just on a one by one basis (would you definately vote against X if they ran?), Hillary had the similar 40something percent, but Romney and Huckabee were both over 50%.

Mantour: You know who else cried and became president?

A good bj makes me tear up too.

At this point I think it's time, hell, past time to disband BOTH political parties. The republicans no longer resonate with anyone able to spell their own name and the democrats still can't manage to rally the voters. They're both failures in foreign and domestic policy, they're both beset by scandal, none of them have any understanding of the government real people want, and the only alternative offered so far has been Ron Paul. I mean seriously! Ron Paul? This is the BEST we can do?

We need to chuck out the WHOLE government. Except the maybe.. 10 people who actually have some clue. Let's wipe this biatch clean.

moops: Doc Daneeka: Would be pretty much the only thing the Dems could do to fark up a sure thing. Either Edwards or Obama would win easily.

This is what is known as "concern trolling" - people who are not Democrats trying to offer Democrats a poison apple. In 2004, the Republicans told the Democrats how nominating Howard Dean would be tragedy.

I'm a liberal, genius, and I'm offering my honest opinion on the matter, not a troll.

I voted for Gore in 2000. I voted for Kerry in 04. I would be pleased as punch to vote for Obama (or to a lesser extent, Edwards) in November. If it's Hillary I will likely be staying home or voting Green. And I think there are a lot of people who have a similar opinion on the matter.

This really just shows that Hillary won't get the Democratic nomination.

I don't care how shiatty the dem nominees are, and they're shiatty. If the republicans get back in after the last 8 years, they will know that they can literally do ANYTHING. McCain will walk out to his inauguration with his ball sack out.`

Jaykzo: People will vote for her based on the fact that they'd "like to go have a cry with her".

Of all the reasons to vote for Hillary, that seems the least likely. But regardless, now I have to go soak my brain in whiskey to get rid of the imagery, and tomorrow's a work day. Thanks a bunch, pal.

Who is the Dem's Cheney? An ultra partisan bulldog that can whip up the base like none other and quitely attack the repubs allowing Obama to keep his hands clean. That person will get the VP slot for an Obama champaign.

If I am lucky he might choose Blago, I would vote for him then.

Opiate of the Lasses:
Basically, McCain will win the nomination, since he's the best chance the Reps have against any Dem. Giuliani is too liberal, and Romney's deluded if he thinks he is getting the nom.

I dunno, I just had a conversation yesterday with someone who was telling me how McCain is incredibly liberal, Huckabee is too liberal, but Guiliani is a great conservative and a strict constitutionalist. One person is obviously not a representative sample of the far right, but I doubt that viewpoint is an isolated one. I don't understand it, I'd never consider Rudy a conservative of any stripe, but apparently his law and order shtick has managed to convince people he's conservative.

Falcc: At this point I think it's time, hell, past time to disband BOTH political parties. The republicans no longer resonate with anyone able to spell their own name and the democrats still can't manage to rally the voters. They're both failures in foreign and domestic policy, they're both beset by scandal, none of them have any understanding of the government real people want, and the only alternative offered so far has been Ron Paul. I mean seriously! Ron Paul? This is the BEST we can do?

We need to chuck out the WHOLE government. Except the maybe.. 10 people who actually have some clue. Let's wipe this biatch clean.

And replace the two parties with what? Two different parties? Guess who would be running the "new" parties.

/meet the new boss
//same as the old boss

The GOP couldn't find a good candidate this year if they tried.


Mark my words, McCain (if nominated) will beat Clinton (if nominated) in an election.

Obama or Edwards and the Dems have it locked up, barring some event like Giulani catching Osama Bin Laden with his own hands.

Clinton will lose though.

Bill Frist

Clinton may get the nomination yet, but McCain has a snowball's chance in hell.

Bill Frist: The GOP couldn't find a good candidate this year if they tried.


Mark my words, McCain (if nominated) will beat Clinton (if nominated) in an election.

Obama or Edwards and the Dems have it locked up, barring some event like Giulani catching Osama Bin Laden with his own hands.

Clinton will lose though.

McCain will never be nominated.

It'll be Romney or Huckabee. Most likely Romney.

Opiate of the Lasses: guesser: after McCain loses to Romney

What makes you think this has a chance at happening?

Basically, McCain will win the nomination, since he's the best chance the Reps have against any Dem. Giuliani is too liberal, and Romney's deluded if he thinks he is getting the nom. The fact people were initially excited about Fred freaking Thompson should show you how desperate they are. So they'll nominate McCain as the least bad option. If they and the idiot press manage to goad the Dems into nominating Hilary then that is how the headline comes true. McCain alone, could defeat Hilary alone.

All other Reps lose to all other Dems.

Actually, if HIllary gets the Dem nomination, I'm not even voting third-party from disgust, I'm voting Republican. The only exception is if Giuliani gets the other nomination. This includes voting for Huckabee if necessary.

As far as the rest of it, though, yeah, pretty much any other Dem wins so far as I'm concerned. I do hate Edwards, but even he is only close to being worse than the republican lineup, he's not quite over the edge.

It's a little long, but this post at OW pretty much perfectly explains the reasons I support Obama over Clinton. The only two things I would add to it are that I love Obama's proposals that would greatly modernize and increase government transparency and that a Hillary presidency would essentially be a green light to dredge up all the Republican complaints about Bill's administration.

The essential dealbreaker for me is this: when all the candidates have very similar domestic policies, I refuse to reward a democrat who voted for Iraq with the party's presidential nomination. Especially one who still refuses to admit that the vote was a mistake.

FuriousGeorge945: The essential dealbreaker for me is this: when all the candidates have very similar domestic policies, I refuse to reward a democrat who voted for Iraq with the party's presidential nomination. Especially one who still refuses to admit that the vote was a mistake.

Agreed with this.

moops Quote 2008-01-13 07:29:15 PM

The GOP has been smearing Hillary Clinton since 1992 with every possible angle they can think of - they've accused her of being a murderer, a lesbian, a Communist, an anti-Semite, a megalomaniac, and a participant in a sham marriage - none of the bullshiat has ever stuck as the American public still LOVED the Clintons after Bill left office. Dredging up the same of shiat won't resonate as it did with John Kerry.

Which is also backfiring in their face enough plus with the antics of the last 8 years that Hilary has a real shot for the White House.

The nominees could be Clinton, Jane Fonda and Michael Moore ...

... you republicans had it all, and you blew it in ways even your liberal boogeyman couldn't have.

Enjoy. You deserve it.

Nightmaretony: Which is also backfiring in their face enough plus with the antics of the last 8 years that Hilary has a real shot for the White House.

agreed.
I'm really tired of the anti- Hillary talk. No one ever has a rational reason for why they hate her so much. Personally, I hope she wins the nom and the presidency.

Two thoughts spring to mind:


(1) If a Democrat wins the White House he or she is going to get the "blame" for pulling us out of Iraq, raising taxes to cover the budget, and generally making the country pay for all the crap that has happened for the last seven years. So the Republicans best hope is for a one term Democrat president

(2) If a Democrat isn't elected president this time, the damn party should disband.

Genevieve Marie: Nightmaretony: Which is also backfiring in their face enough plus with the antics of the last 8 years that Hilary has a real shot for the White House.

agreed.
I'm really tired of the anti- Hillary talk. No one ever has a rational reason for why they hate her so much. Personally, I hope she wins the nom and the presidency.


For starters, democrats have plenty of rational reasons to not want her to be the nominee. And as for the rest of the public, does a lack of rational reasons to hate her actually matter when the bottom line is that people hate her?

What rational reasons are there for selecting her over Obama?

Ceph: I have to ask why. Name recognition?

Well this might come off as a bit cynical, but I have not too much faith left in states/people that lean heavily "red", so here goes. It's mostly a process of elimination.

Giuliani - from NY, pro-choice, pro-drag, Italian, corrupt, 9/11 isn't enough
Romney - Mormon, flip-flopper, way too liberal voting record, MA stench, slimy sense of trying to buy the nomination
Fred Thompson - ZZZZzzzz, probably too old. Could win if he gave a shiat. Doesn't seem to.
Huckabee - the bible beaters would love him, but he would destroy the republican party, since he actually believes in some of the christianity he espouses, including not farking the poor. The big business arm will absolutely not let him get elected, or splinter off if this happens.
McCain - only real wart on him is immigration. He's not 100% conservative, but I think he's palatable to both sides. Neither big business nor the bible beaters outright HATE him, so barring some scandal I think he wins.
The repubs honestly don't seem to WANT to vote FOR anyone else.

rynthetyn:

Yea people are stupid. It's why we have this current crop of award winners to choose from. but given how the media shapes perceptions that might be cleared up before too long. Other than that, the republican party is in sad shape. Chickens coming home to roost from years of fooling the religious right while alienating the rest so long as they got those 270 votes. Only real hope they have is as always people's stupidity. The next president is gonna inherit an absolute clusterfark, and may only see one term if by mid 2010 or so people forget just WHO farked things up and WHY. Which sadly, is likely.

Genevieve Marie: Nightmaretony: Which is also backfiring in their face enough plus with the antics of the last 8 years that Hilary has a real shot for the White House.

agreed.
I'm really tired of the anti- Hillary talk. No one ever has a rational reason for why they hate her so much. Personally, I hope she wins the nom and the presidency.

How about because she just says whatever she thinks the crowd wants to hear? The whole GTA thing?

When Kerry was running against Bush, republicans said its not enough to be just against the shrub, you have to be for something. I wish republicans would make up their inconsistent little minds. The best they can hope for is an election that looks like Gore V Bush, there is no anti-Hillary effect as they would like to believe.

FuriousGeorge945: What rational reasons are there for selecting her over Obama?

Let's see, the ones I've heard...
1) "America's not ready for a black President."
2) "What are you, some kind of sexist?"

I got nothing else.