Wow. Very sad. That's quite a premonition, though, to feel too endangered to go out without an AK-47 (!) and then get almost-robbed. Much as I hate to say it, I hope they go easy on him for punishment - mandatory therapy and surveillance instead of jail, I'd recommend.

Skail: Wow. Very sad. That's quite a premonition, though, to feel too endangered to go out without an AK-47 (!) and then get almost-robbed. Much as I hate to say it, I hope they go easy on him for punishment - mandatory therapy and surveillance instead of jail, I'd recommend.

I agree.
This is no time to "punish a criminal" its time to help a very sick scared person.
I have no pity for the dead gang member or his family. But my heart goes out to this kid who clearly has battle fatigue and post traumatic stress syndrome and to his family as well.
He should be held responsible for his actions by the court, but that should be in the form of mandatory therapy and surveillance instead of jail. Possibly hospital time if the doctors involved make that recommendation.
But he should not be sent to jail unless the state just wants to take a sick man and turn him into a cold hard criminal.


PS: IMHO its idiotic that we can trust an 18 year old to vote, force him to register for the draft, and send him into combat, but he's not allowed to legally have a beer. You would have to have the intelligence of a Brazilian tree sloth to think that's a good idea.

eqtworld: Oh and why is a .223 AR-15 pistol with a 60round drum magazine legal....but I cant have a Semi-auto MP-5 in 9mm (less powerful bullet) with a 4inch barrel and 15shot mag?

Because early versions of the '34 NFA contained language that would have banned all handguns. Our masters didn't want the rabble arming themseles with anything concealable. Even though that didn't go into the final version the restrictions against short barreled rifles and shotguns stayed to prevent them from being cut down.

Just in case this turns into a gun hate thread, here's a 'California Assault Weapons Ban' fully legal happy gun that's not at all scary.

eqtworld: I would think he could have saved enough money for an AR-15.

Oh you didn't just start an AK vs AR war did you? That is one of those topics that keep gun forums interesting. Then there is the 9x19 vs 45 ACP and 7.62x39 vs .223.

Besides, he probably wanted the AK for its folding stock to reduce the OAL and make it more compact.

So while the AR may be an easier design to make accurate, the AK is a far more reliable design. Most modern AKMs are made to tight tolerances, but have ample clearance between parts for stuff to go.

Here is my Saiga 7.62x39 in its designated marksman setup. I actually like the 20 round mags better than the 30 that I have in the picture. The gun will shoot 1.5" MOA with cheap Wolf ammo.



jbuist: Because early versions of the '34 NFA contained language that would have banned all handguns. Our masters didn't want the rabble arming themseles with anything concealable. Even though that didn't go into the final version the restrictions against short barreled rifles and shotguns stayed to prevent them from being cut down.

That's basically it. It irritates me to no end that I can get a ticket for not havig a muffler on my car, yet I have to pay a $200 tax for a muffler for my gun. (Suppressor) Thanks to the 86 MG ban a transferable select fire M-16 will cost you over $16,000. A select fire trigger group for the 10/22 costs well over $8,000.

Hopefully DC vs Heller will open the doors to overturning some of this idiotic legislation. Poll taxes are illegal, the $200 NFA tax and the artificially inflated price of maching guns should be too.

Back on topic, yea this guy needs mental help, not jail. As for the shooting, it sounds justified to me though I don't have all the details. Certainly hope he doesn't loose his 2nd amendment rights. (After he is treated for his mental illness of course.)

TFA is wrong on one thing, an assault rifle has to be select fire, all US civilian clones are semi-automatic only and thus not assault rifles. The media LOVES to get that detail wrong.

From TFA:

A battle-weary grenadier who was still legally underage, Sepi paid a stranger to buy him two tall cans of beer.

Fought for country, asked to do God-knows-what and still can't legally buy a beer.

You know, in some places of the world, it's considered normal to schlep around your automatic rifle when you feel like getting a slurpee.

Crosshair, get that AR crap off that AK!

To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow, and his orphan.

Thanks VA for letting another one slip through the cracks.

You know, I am not one of those people who thinks all military people should be put on pedestals, but this is not a hardened criminal, this is someone suffering from major post-traumatic stress disorder and who needs help, not jail.

Why isn't there anything in place to take care of these guys when they come back from fighting in such dangerous places, surrounded by death and destruction?

I hope he doesn't end up in jail, like others have said. Besides, while an AK-47 might be a bit much, he did just kill/injure two gang members who had no intentions of doing anything but robbing people that night. Kind of hard to feel all that bad for them.

squeky: Crosshair, get that AR crap off that AK!

I thought the stock looked funny...

eqtworld:
Make your own AR pistol. Not hard. Probably the easiest build out there, next to 1919.
Built me 2 so far.

/Nothing beats the watson weapon .50 cal upper for AR lower

So a guy carries an AK and takes out a gangster who tried to pop a cap in his azz?

I fail to see the problem with this.

Maybe we should all carry assault rifles.

"Took my AK-47 to the 7-11...."

Get ready, people. Coming to a bad rap/pop song near you.

This thread will get ugly.

Before it does, though, there's something I've thought about lately that relates to this. How is it that we, as a society, have suddenly become succeptable to every mental illness in the book? I mean, ya, even before WWI people came home shell-shocked, but it seems like now the ones that do are twice as bad because of added neuroses. How did we all get so farked in the head? Is reality that much different now, or is it the fault of being inundated with psychobabble?

Crosshair: eqtworld: I would think he could have saved enough money for an AR-15.

Oh you didn't just start an AK vs AR war did you? That is one of those topics that keep gun forums interesting.

The AK is nearly impossible to jam, accurate enough, and more powerful than the AR's 5.56. Plus it's far cheaper (both the weapon and the ammo). All the AR fanboys are just blinded by their patriotic fervor. :)

Then there is the 9x19 vs 45 ACP

Aww geez. The correct answer is .40 S&W. It has both good capacity and decent power.

This man's instincts were spot-on. His danger sense must be very highly honed. And he was right! He was engaged on that "mission" to the 7-11. He neutralized the threat and broke contact.

All I can say is, "Well done, sir."

Now, he may have an anxiety disorder and the military should be obligated to treat it. I hope he does get treatment.

But he defended himself effectively. I realize that is illegal in various (high crime) municipalities. I hope if it is illegal in this high crime area, that he won't be charged.

And isn't it curious that this sort of warped prohibition seems to exist in higher crime areas, but not in lower crime areas? If this man engaged and neutralized an assailant in Vermont or Virginia, this wouldn't have raised any fears of prosecuting the victim.

if y'all come on out to any 7-11 in PG County, MD, y'all will get to be in the same position... less the A.K... unless of course you bring an A.K... you can get those pretty easy in PG too...

Brother,

We know, We care, and we can help

(an old VA ad)

As for this incidence this guy should get help, and then a medal, in that order. I don't feel bad when two men who rob people at gunpoint for a living get shot. Maybe I am lacking in the milk of human kindness, but I feel worse for a kid who may have ruined his life, then these two punks.

FriarReb98: This thread will get ugly.

Before it does, though, there's something I've thought about lately that relates to this. How is it that we, as a society, have suddenly become succeptable to every mental illness in the book? I mean, ya, even before WWI people came home shell-shocked, but it seems like now the ones that do are twice as bad because of added neuroses. How did we all get so farked in the head? Is reality that much different now, or is it the fault of being inundated with psychobabble?

Back in WWII our military decided that a soldier couldn't endure long combat tours without illness developing. This administration has insisted on multiple 15 month tours. Then when the veteran comes home and displays mental illness the VA tries to claim the illness was a preexisting condition so as to disqualify the veteran from treatment and benefits.

That's part of the reason we have so many PTSD. Also, since soldiers survive their injuries to a much greater percentage than before we have mental and physical illnesses that would have died with the veteran previously.

Basically, you can chalk this up to Bush Cheney wanting to fight a war without a draft.

buffalosoldier: As for this incidence this guy should get help, and then a medal, in that order. I don't feel bad when two men who rob people at gunpoint for a living get shot.

I'll Second that...

Jungle Boogie. you are absolutely correct and win this thread.

eqtworld:

Sweet. Nothing beats the concealed carry of one of these. I haven't had the opportunity (thankfully), but I can imagine an intruder shiatting herself (women's lib) to death at the sight.

Tatsuma:

That's hot.

Re the story, I don't have a problem with the poor guy popping the two bangers. Not. One. Bit. My only problem is that he was prosecuted, and that we have such dismissive contempt for our vets that they could be put in such a situation in the first place.

Nor do I have a problem with the situation presented later in the story. Armed Iraqi, out after curfew, moving large bag near roadway. Bang. End of story. I don't care if it was filled with fluffy bunnies.

FTA - "Spc. Richard Davis of the Army, who was stabbed repeatedly and then set ablaze, his body hidden in the woods by fellow soldiers a day after they all returned from Iraq."

There's more to this than meets the eye

Soldiers who have seen combat get used to carrying thier guns everywhere. They name them, sleep next to them, and sometimes feel naked without them. Made for some interesting times when my ex got home....

Tatsuma

You know, in some places of the world, it's considered normal to schlep around your automatic rifle when you feel like getting a slurpee.

Sure, when you're in the army. Good luck getting a gun permit once you're out though.

Why does this person deserve any sympathy?

drxym: Why does this person deserve any sympathy?

because he did what his country asked him to do and he came back a screwed up person... its called "sacrifice".

Woot. Another firearm circle jerk thread. We need more pics of fark heroes showing off their toys! Stat!

/Yah, i said it
//bite me

Ironically, we'd be better off, I think, if we could all carry weapons around. And if there were less jerks.

eqtworld:
You can get a new AK for $500 bucks.


Very good to know. Thank you!

Bhasayate: Ironically, we'd be better off, I think, if we could all carry weapons around. And if there were less jerks.

yeah, but then your wife would off you if you called her shoes "white" when they were really "egg-shell" or "ivory"... women and CARS is bad enough let alone GUNS... oy!

So a story about these very young guys suffering from PTSD and murdering people when they get home is greeted on fark by YAY, let's have a war porn thread! My gunz is bigger than urs!

Personally I find this to be pretty farking tragic. I can't believe that there are war veterans in the USA who have to ask strangers to buy beer for them because they are under 21.

Can any of you imagine that? Or are you all just too chickenshiat to ponder the real consequences of this war?

/me reckons the latter

Bush: We are fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here.

From the looks of it we are going to be fighting 'them' here regardless if they bother to actually show up.

epoc_tnac: let's have a war porn thread! My gunz is bigger than urs!

YOU WIN!!!!

Mr. Xhin: All the pin-dicked, internet tough guys come out to talk about their guns.

Weeee!

Main Entry: pro·jec·tion
...
6b: the attribution of one's own ideas, feelings, or attitudes to other people or to objects; especially : the externalization of blame, guilt, or responsibility as a defense against anxiety
-----

You may want to rethink the small penis jokes.

/not an ITG

Bhasayate
Ironically, we'd be better off, I think, if we could all carry weapons around. And if there were less jerks.

Those two ideas might have some sor t of relationship....

more guns = less 'jerks'... perhaps.

drxym
Cuz he is a goddamn hero. both for the service and for whacking those two punks.


I don't understand

a) why a man who has fought for america can't have a pint.

b) why the gov't tries to disarm you in areas where you need protection the most

c) why this isn't a simple case of, 'Oh, this guy needs help' and we help him, damn the funding.

d) why does the article make it seem like the two bangers are victims, in any sense.

I know what is like to come back and 'tweak', and ifyou look at the stats, we are in for a lot more of these stories. In five years, this is gonna make PTSD 'nam vets seem like a pleasant memory.

wowzer97pooh: Back in WWII our military decided that a soldier couldn't endure long combat tours without illness developing. This administration has insisted on multiple 15 month tours.

This, plus if you read the rest of the article, it describes the sort of situation that soldiers often find themselves in- having to make judgments about whether to kill someone or not, then discovering that they were really a civilian. For a 19-year old to have to make that decision (and get it wrong) must really mess someone up. This article about a famously photographed Marine in Faluja describes the situation fairly well.

epoc_tnac: Personally I find this to be pretty farking tragic. I can't believe that there are war veterans in the USA who have to ask strangers to buy beer for them because they are under 21.

Can any of you imagine that? Or are you all just too chickenshiat to ponder the real consequences of this war?



You mean the War on Drugs, right? The really stupid one that has caused far more loss of life than the dustup over in the Middle East.

FriarReb98: How is it that we, as a society, have suddenly become [susceptible] to every mental illness in the book? I mean, ya, even before WWI people came home shell-shocked, but it seems like now the ones that do are twice as bad because of added neuroses. How did we all get so farked in the head?

Tough to say. A guy who was in the Army Rangers for about 20 years wrote a book called On Killing which talked about this topic. The author talked to hundreds of soldiers who'd killed people, and wrote everything up in a pretty good way. He found that the closer the killer was to the dead guy, the more stress the killer suffered. Also, soldiers who had a few weeks to chill out in a reasonably safe place full of other soldiers who'd been through similar combat experiences had a lot more success in dealing with stress when they went back to civilian life.

I think part of it is also that in modern wars, there are no front lines. You can't rotate to the rear for a week like you could in WWII, you're essentially surrounded all the time. Though you've always had civilians mixed in with soldiers, now the enemy hides among the civilian population and looks like civilians until they blow up a car and/or fire a few RPG rounds. These things increase stress.

I read another book by some British general about how to successfully fight a war in a mixed civilian/enemy environment. I can't remember the title. He also talked about how to reduce PTSD in soldiers, but it wasn't the book's main focus.

/reader of lots of stuff, classified medically unfit for military service, so take with a grain of salt.

Welcome to life neo-con style. You have been used and now thrown away all in the name of "XXXXXX". I would say what country but I fear reprisals.

This is the future of the US. Pretty soon their will be a draft and all the young kids who are not "special" will be in Iran fighting in the name of "XXXXX".

/freedom of speech is dead
/Iraq is not about Al-Qaeda
/Iran is next

epoc_tnac: So a story about these very young guys suffering from PTSD and murdering people when they get home is greeted on fark by YAY, let's have a war porn thread! My gunz is bigger than urs!

Personally I find this to be pretty farking tragic. I can't believe that there are war veterans in the USA who have to ask strangers to buy beer for them because they are under 21.

Can any of you imagine that? Or are you all just too chickenshiat to ponder the real consequences of this war?

/me reckons the latter

Yeah, me, I would say fark the cans of beer, let me take you to a bar and have a real drink.

of course, I'd ask him to leave the gun at home in case he got TOO drunk.

Even the Vets know that the Kalashnikov is a superior weapon.

When you are going to an 7-11 Arab Stronghold in the desert for booze, you damn well have a weapon you can rely on.

Imagine being in that Stronghold you go to the coolers in the back to get a nice 12pk of fine American Budweiser.

You walk up to the counter to pay but then out of no where a homicide bomber rushes you!

This soldier has been trained by the most skilled military tacticians in the world. He will gracefully rest his beer on the counter while at the same time readying his weapon and neutralizing the threat before him.

Those fine American Lagers taste mighty good right about now.

NeoLuddite1: "Took my AK-47 to the 7-11...."

Get ready, people. Coming to a bad rap/pop song near you.

Took mah AK-47 to the local 7-11
Some n****z tried to gaffle me so I pulled a 187
Some body musta called the pigs cause they was give'n chase
Had bust a cap in they ass and head up out the place

/word
//MC-Stabbs and the Cutta Crew

Johny McStabbs:
Took mah AK-47 to the local 7-11
Some n****z tried to gaffle me so I pulled a 187
Some body musta called the pigs cause they was give'n chase
Had bust a cap in they ass and head up out the place

Gaffle? WTF??

evareste: Welcome to life neo-con style. You have been used and now thrown away all in the name of "XXXXXX". I would say what country but I fear reprisals.

This is the future of the US. Pretty soon their will be a draft and all the young kids who are not "special" will be in Iran fighting in the name of "XXXXX".

/freedom of speech is dead
/Iraq is not about Al-Qaeda
/Iran is next

Saudi Arabia you pussy. All of this is for the house of Saud.

Tatsuma: You know, in some places of the world, it's considered normal to schlep around your automatic rifle when you feel like getting a slurpee.

Since they are unloaded they might as well of left them at home.

Drawist:
Gaffle? WTF??

Meh, been dipping in the "gangsta rap" portion of my music. Here you go. (new window)

/stops the Ice Cube playing in shame
//goes back to Killing Joke where I belong